A follow up to me post "Am I dead wrong when it comes to death and life?"

A Devil's Advocate

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In light of my previous post with there possibly being death in the world before sin, I've some questions that have recently come to mind. I apologize if these questions have been asked a hundred times over. But, if they have been asked plenty of times before, then I should feel confident in your guys ability to answer my questions clear and precisely.

Rom 5:12 tells us sin entered the world through one man... So, it is commonly understood that there was no sin/evil in the world before this, correct?. But, is this accurate? Meaning, are we understanding Paul within the correct context?

Was the serpent good? Was the deception/lie that he told not actually a lie because that would have been evil in intent? If there was no evil in the world, then how do we account for the serpent and his deception? Did the serpent not actually approach Eve and it was all just her imagination? Is this just a grandiose story to scare little children at night?

Or..... is it possible evil was in the world before Adam sinned? In verse 5:12, is it possible that Paul is only speaking in the context of the relationship between man and God? In other words, was Paul only saying there was no evil/sin within the relationship between man and God. An analogy of this might be your relationship with your spouse. There is hate in the world, but not in your relationship with your spouse. But, the hate of the world, through deception or lies, eventually makes its way into your relationship. Is it possible this is the context of what Paul is saying?

Now, if evil was possibly in the world before the fall, then would it not be conceivable that death too was also in the world before the fall, just not within man's relationship with God? Physical death was in the world, but spiritual death is the death that Paul is speaking about?

I look forward to reading your answers. But please, explain the reason/reasons why that is your answer instead of just throwing a verse in my face and saying "See! The bible says so!" Explain why so I know you understand the context in which your verse was originally used.
 

d taylor

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No sin was in satan and since the world was re-created for humanity is was sin free and death free. Satan had lost the world God created for him basically he was now in the sky roaming around.

When Adam sinned, he brought sin and death into the restored earth.
 
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A Devil's Advocate

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No sin was in satan and since the world was re-created for humanity is was sin free and death free. Satan had lost the world God created for him basically he was now in the sky roaming around.

When Adam sinned, he brought sin and death into the restored earth.
So what you're saying is Satan is all good since he is without sin? Why did he lose the world? Was he too good?
 
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d taylor

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So what you're saying is Satan is all good since he is without sin? Why did he lose the world? Was he too good?

Is it possible your statement is missing a comma? Am I suppose to read it as "No, sin was in Satan..." If I'm to read it this way, then who was the serpent, if not Satan?

It is, so i was saying. - No, sin was in satan.

The serpent was the serpent, was the serpent actually satan (do not know, doubt it) or did satan just use the serpent for his plan (could be). The serpent was cursed by God, satan is an angel not a member of the cattle family or beast of the field
 
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fli

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In light of my previous post with there possibly being death in the world before sin, I've some questions that have recently come to mind. I apologize if these questions have been asked a hundred times over. But, if they have been asked plenty of times before, then I should feel confident in your guys ability to answer my questions clear and precisely.

Rom 5:12 tells us sin entered the world through one man... So, it is commonly understood that there was no sin/evil in the world before this, correct?. But, is this accurate? Meaning, are we understanding Paul within the correct context?

Was the serpent good? Was the deception/lie that he told not actually a lie because that would have been evil in intent? If there was no evil in the world, then how do we account for the serpent and his deception? Did the serpent not actually approach Eve and it was all just her imagination? Is this just a grandiose story to scare little children at night?

Or..... is it possible evil was in the world before Adam sinned? In verse 5:12, is it possible that Paul is only speaking in the context of the relationship between man and God? In other words, was Paul only saying there was no evil/sin within the relationship between man and God. An analogy of this might be your relationship with your spouse. There is hate in the world, but not in your relationship with your spouse. But, the hate of the world, through deception or lies, eventually makes its way into your relationship. Is it possible this is the context of what Paul is saying?

Now, if evil was possibly in the world before the fall, then would it not be conceivable that death too was also in the world before the fall, just not within man's relationship with God? Physical death was in the world, but spiritual death is the death that Paul is speaking about?

I look forward to reading your answers. But please, explain the reason/reasons why that is your answer instead of just throwing a verse in my face and saying "See! The bible says so!" Explain why so I know you understand the context in which your verse was originally used.

Adam was in charge of God's creation. As long as Adam took care of God's creation by God's directions sin was not in the world in a way that it could change the operation of the creation. Satan could not hurt or change creation in any way as long as Adam ran it the way God directed. Once Adam did not observe the rule God gave him sin could make the changes Satan wanted to make.

Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. NKJV



One of the first things to happen corruption was introduced into creation. Every building block of creation, atom, element and molecule is now in a state of decay. This means everything given enough time will fall apart. Every living fleshly being will eventually die. Death has entered the world as a natural part of the process. It will remain so until the new heaven and new earth.
 
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