A flat earth, and Noah's Ark.

[Tetra]

If you could certainly demonstrate the shape of the earth, no one could dispute it. The fact that it is disputed shows there is no certainty. I am sure you have plenty of "evidence" just as the flat-earthers; yet, in truth, there is no way to confirm that what you're being told is certainly true. It is an unknowable based on appeal to authority.

In other words, just because people say it, doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

Holy smokes this is insane. Based on your definition of certainty, I don't even know how you function in life.

The reason why this is an issue, is because "flat-earthers" who are Christian, make Christians seem completely insane. The last thing we need is for non-believers to now add special needs to their spectrum of insults.

The earth is an oblate spheroid.

Either way it ain't flat.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Holy smokes this is insane.

I believe it's the sanest of the options. People seem to greatly fear the words "I don't know" but I don't. I cannot know anything outside of my own experience. Anyone who believes they can, is unreasonable. It's even worse when unreasonable serves only to divide.

 

[JacksBratt]

Happy New Year to you too

i have looked it up and i was unfortunately left with more questions than i originally had.

Yep, this is a very interesting topic. It seems that over the last year or so the flat earth belief and investigations of it are increasing at a dramatic rate.

I am not convinced that the earth is a giant snow globe. However, people can use the bible to argue both sides.

The only real "proof" that we have for it being a globe, is from NASA and the military. Many don't trust either as a source of this information.

In all reality, for a Christian, it matters little. Either flat or globe, the Bible is not contradicted and creation, salvation, and everything in between flows smoothly.

However, for the atheist, evolutionist, alien believer, searcher of other planets and civilizations.... pretty difficult if we are a giant platter with a dome over top, sitting on pillars.

So, was the deception 500 years ago with Copernicus? Or, was the deception the flat earth view?

 

[Tetra]

I believe it's the sanest of the options. People seem to greatly fear the words "I don't know" but I don't. I cannot know anything outside of my own experience. Anyone who believes they can, is unreasonable. It's even worse when unreasonable serves only to divide.

Like I said, I have no idea how you function in life. I wasn't being rude, I was being serious. Your view is some sort of extreme empiricism which I don't even think the most hardheaded staunch atheist subscribes to. I mean, you couldn't even arrive at basic conclusions using deductive reasoning if you believe what you wrote.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Like I said, I have no idea how you function in life. I wasn't being rude, I was being serious. Your view is some sort of extreme empiricism which I don't even think the most hardheaded staunch atheist subscribes to. I mean, you couldn't even arrive at basic conclusions using deductive reasoning if you believe what you wrote.

Elaborate? I seem to function fine; even much better than most. Knowledge of the shape of the earth never comes into play in my experience. It is empty knowledge. Does your ability to function rely on knowing the shape of the earth?

 

[brinny]

Yep, this is a very interesting topic. It seems that over the last year or so the flat earth belief and investigations of it are increasing at a dramatic rate.

I am not convinced that the earth is a giant snow globe. However, people can use the bible to argue both sides.

The only real "proof" that we have for it being a globe, is from NASA and the military. Many don't trust either as a source of this information.

In all reality, for a Christian, it matters little. Either flat or globe, the Bible is not contradicted and creation, salvation, and everything in between flows smoothly.

However, for the atheist, evolutionist, alien believer, searcher of other planets and civilizations.... pretty difficult if we are a giant platter with a dome over top, sitting on pillars.

So, was the deception 500 years ago with Copernicus? Or, was the deception the flat earth view?

Nevertheless, the question(s) remains, my friend (of whom i usually agree with)

Why wouldn't Noah's ark have gone over the side of this flat earth?

Why wouldn't ANY ship go over the edge of this flat earth?

What's "under" this flat earth?

How deep IS this flat earth?

With the tides of the water, and the power of these tides, why would the ocean itself just go over the edge of this flat earth with each tide?

Does this flat earth spin?

 

[Kenneth Redden]

First, I was not implying that God cannot do what we would consider as impossible. But There is a difference between God and His miracles versus science fiction written by men. God's miracles glorify HImself. Science fiction written by men glorifies himself.

Why do you say, "science fiction"? It wasn't made up by some fiction writer. It was found by man in a scientific way. Haven't you ever heard of "M theory." I have found that it works very well with this understanding.

Second, the text does not say the universe was created on day 4 (Meaning the dimension of space itself). God just placed the stars and everything in the universe on day 4. There is no indication He created an actual special new dimension of space time on day 4. For it says,

You cannot have stars without space. Case closed.

It would be inaccurate to say the universe (implying the dimension of space) was created on day 4 because on days 2-3, the foundations of the Earth were being created like the formation of the atmosphere, the land coming out of the sea with the vegetation growing upon it.

It would be inaccurate to think that God would make anything in this Universe that was not scientifically provable.

Three, as for 2 Peter 3:3-8: Well, I provided a commentary within the text to help you to see what it is saying.

3 "Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” [i.e. from the point of Adam and Eve onward]
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, [i.e. The six literal 24 hour day creation]
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. [i.e. the world of Adam and Eve was destroyed being flooded with water] [Note: Planet Earth itself was not destroyed, but merely everything that lived and breathed on the Earth was destroyed].
7 But by His word the present heavens and earth [Note: The word "present" does not suggest an entirely new universe or new Earth. Also, the word "heavens" is not in relation to planets here but in relation to the atmosphere] are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. [Note: This is not saying that the Lord had created everything in 6000 years; It is in reference to God's perspective on time and how He is long suffering towards us - See verse 9.].


...

No, that is not what I see. I see the six days of the creation related in 2 Peter 3:3-8, which you are unable to see due to your view of scripture. An analogy of you perspective is like going to a school and looking at the children homework to understand what the teacher is teaching! That will never work.

 

[brinny]

This comes to mind:

 

[Kenneth Redden]

They were literal 24 hour days. There is also no indication in the text that there was another Earth that was flat besides the Earth we are on now (that is a sphere). The text does not say there two different Earths. The text also does not say there are two different universes, either. Why would God's Word hide something like that if it were true?


...

I believe there is only one earth. It was processed through the first three days of creation. Today is the fourth day, and it is finished and made beneath the stars for the coming of the Lord.

 

[JackRT]

Two days ago my daughter flew from Toronto Canada to Hong Kong China. If you look at any standard map you will observe that Hong Kong lies west and a little south of Toronto. If she had flown on that bearing across the Pacific Ocean the flight would have been approximately 12000 miles. However she did not fly on the bearing. She left Toronto on a bearing a little west of north. It took her over Hudson Bay, the Canadian Arctic Islands, the Arctic Ocean, passing near the North Pole and then south and a little west over Siberia, Mongolia and China --- a distance of about 8000 miles. She did not pass over the Pacific Ocean at all, didn't even come near it. That is only possible on a spherical earth. You can verify this for yourself by comparing a flat map of the world to a globe of the world.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

This comes to mind:

Hey, me too. Aren't you glad we don't really live on a flat earth!

 

[brinny]

Hey, me too. Aren't you glad we don't really live on a flat earth!

I agree.

It's a sphere.

On another note, got any pictures of Antarctica?

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Two days ago my daughter flew from Toronto Canada to Hong Kong China. If you look at any standard map you will observe that Hong Kong lies west and a little south of Toronto. If she had flown on that bearing across the Pacific Ocean the flight would have been approximately 12000 miles. However she did not fly on the bearing. She left Toronto on a bearing a little west of north. It took her over Hudson Bay, the Canadian Arctic Islands, the Arctic Ocean, passing near the North Pole and then south and a little west over Siberia, Mongolia and China --- a distance of about 8000 miles. She did not pass over the Pacific Ocean at all, didn't even come near it. That is only possible on a spherical earth. You can verify this for yourself by comparing a flat map of the world to a globe of the world.

Good, I hope she had a good time. I can't think of anything relevant to say about your daughter's trip. Sorry.

 

[brinny]

I believe there is only one earth. It was processed through the first three days of creation. Today is the fourth day, and it is finished and made beneath the stars for the coming of the Lord.

Today is the fourth day?

Of creation?

And earth was not "processed".

Earth was "created".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe there is only one earth. It was processed through the first three days of creation. Today is the fourth day, and it is finished and made beneath the stars for the coming of the Lord.

So where did the animals and man come from if we have not reached day 6?


....

 

[Tetra]

Elaborate? I seem to function fine; even much better than most. Knowledge of the shape of the earth never comes into play in my experience. It is empty knowledge. Does your ability to function rely on knowing the shape of the earth?

What I'm saying is, I think you're rejecting basic reasoning if you claim "I don't know" to the earth being a sphere. Which is why I'm saying, I don't know how you function. There are many methods of deducing the earth is a sphere without having to physically shoot you into space...

 

[John Hyperspace]

What I'm saying is, I think you're rejecting basic reasoning if you claim "I don't know" to the earth being a sphere.

Actually I'm merely stating the truth. I don't know what shape the earth is. I think there is very good evidence, but it isn't certainty. "Very likely" is just another way of saying "I don't know": but, what is your reasoning to come to a certain knowledge concerning the question? What have you done to discover the truth of the matter with such unwavering certainty? I must discount "I was told" as hearsay, which could be based on misinformation, or, blatant lying (not that you are lying, but, that your sources could be lying to you- how would you know?)

Which is why I'm saying, I don't know how you function.

I function quite easily. Apparently, knowledge of my own experience is all that is necessary to function. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Wouldn't Noah's Ark have gone over the side of a flat earth?

Probably.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Even today the earth appears flat, with the sky forming a dome enclosing the moon and stars, that reaches down to the horizon all around. This is how the ancients saw it and referred to it.

 

[brinny]

Probably.

Thus my confounded-ness that there could be a "flat earth".