A flat earth, and Noah's Ark.

[Zoii]

Cant any of you see that this discussion is so destructive to the reputation of Christians?

 

[squirrel123]

I didn't say you couldn't go there under a guided tour or travel planner.....a supervised trip.... Nope, that is still available.

I said, you cannot get in your boat, ship, yacht with a bunch of buddies and sail your butt down there.... You can do that any other place in the world but you can not have an unsupervised, invalidated, non permission personal trip below the 60th parallel.

You will be arrested.

So you are allegedly not allowed to travel there (this has not yet been proven), to prevent you discovering that it doesn't exist, but you can book a cruise there and see for yourself that it does exist????

 

[JacksBratt]

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Thanks - it does seem odd that this wall has never been seen or photographed though dont you think

How would you do that?

Look into "operation High Jump". A valid, recorded and historical fact. A mission of military significance to go to the continent of Antarctica...

Whatever they found, and I'm not saying that it was discovering the flat earth, but, they found something out. Because the came back and started firing nuclear bombs in high atmosphere (operation "fish bowl") and made the Antarctic treaty to protect it from anyone going there "without permission".

Why? Because of the pristine environmental conditions??? Hello? There is supposed to be, according to Admiral Byrd, the leader of this mission, a wealth of natural resources beyond the pole, whatever, beyond the pole, means. He was talking about coal, oil and minerals... why have these never been recovered, mined or even researched?

The earth is probably a globe but something odd is behind the veil of mystery about Antarctica.

 

[JacksBratt]

So you are allegedly not allowed to travel there (this has not yet been proven), to prevent you discovering that it doesn't exist, but you can book a cruise there and see for yourself that it does exist????

Please, stop telling me it is possible to go there... Of course it is.

All be it while you have permits, supervised, planned by travel companies...For goodness sake, my wife's wealthy friends are doing that in just a month.....

I said..............YOU cannot go there on your own, unsupervised, without government permission, to just willy nilly wander around, back pack, sail........whatever....

You cannot just get in your boat or yacht and sail your butt down their, get off and poke around etc.....

You will be arrested.

Other than some communist countries, you can, if you have the resources, sail, backpack, poke around almost any where on the earth. Without someone holding your hand and such.

 

[JackRT]

Cant any of you see that this discussion is so destructive to the reputation of Christians?

I am both a scientist and a Christian and I certainly am not a flat-earther. The vast majority of my fellow Christians are not either. We know that the Bible espouses a flat earth cosmology but we do not regard that as a problem because the biblical authors wrote to people in language that they were able to comprehend in an entirely pre-scientific culture.

 

[squirrel123]

Why? Because of the pristine environmental conditions??? Hello? There is supposed to be, according to Admiral Byrd, the leader of this mission, a wealth of natural resources beyond the pole, whatever, beyond the pole, means. He was talking about coal, oil and minerals... why have these never been recovered, mined or even researched?

Maybe because housing laborers in the extreme conditions there, and moving them there and back, makes it financially not viable?

Or maybe the impossibility to provide a safe and healthy workplace for the laborers there makes it legally not feasible?

Or maybe they just understand how important preserving the Antarctic ice-cap is to the world climate and the atmosphere, and they don't want to screw it up?

 

[squirrel123]

Please, stop telling me it is possible to go there... Of course it is.

So what's your point?

Clearly it's not an impenetrable wall of ice around the edge of the world. You admit that one can go there to check for themselves. So how is the Antarctic treaty at all relevant to the flat-earth theory?

PS: You get in a sailboat and sail to the UK, or any European country without asking for permission, and set foot on shore. Do you think you won't be arrested?

You try walking around and camping in a protected wilderness area in most countries in the world, without permission and without a guide etc. Do you think you won't be arrested?

 

[JacksBratt]

Very briefly, a spinning globe is a huge gyroscope. This explains why it points in one direction. A gyroscope if not perfectly balanced will also precess, that is to slowly change the direction in which the poles are pointing. The earth does this in a cycle of 22,000 years. Polaris is our present north star, that changes slowly over the cycle. Because the rotational axis is tilted (23 degrees at the present time) we get the seasons. The precession of the axis will also produce long term heating and cooling effects. The fact that the earth has an atmosphere that is warmed at the equator and cooled at the poles produces winds. But these winds do not blow in straight lines. There is an effect called the Coreolis force caused by the gyroscopic nature of the earth. This Coreolis force causes the winds to curve with the effect that cyclonic storms in the northern hemisphere rotate counter clockwise while they are clockwise in the southern hemisphere. A globular rotating earth together with the observed laws of physics explains a whole whack of observations very neatly that a flat earth cannot even touch. My brief comments above are very sketchy and really only touch the physics in a very superficial way.

Thanks for that description. Not sure that it proves why the proposed "dome covered" model could not have rain, seasons, winds and such... But, it does describe how they work on a globe.



Question...

IF the earth is rotating at 1000 mph, give or take, at the equator, and gravity holds me on the earth so that centrifugal force doesn't throw me off, and, gravity is always the same on every inch of the globe... Why am I not way heavier at the poles as I have far less centrifugal force opposing gravity as the rotation of the earth is much slower, relatively, at the poles?

 

[JacksBratt]

Maybe because housing laborers in the extreme conditions there, and moving them there and back, makes it financially not viable?

Or maybe the impossibility to provide a safe and healthy workplace for the laborers there makes it legally not feasible?

Good point but if you are in no need of financial assistance or necessities for the weather, and travel there. Why would they care.

I can get in my car and drive all the way north. Get out and take my sled dogs all the way north until I'm lost, starve, survive, whatever and nobody will give a hoot about my safety, whereabouts, journey.. whatever... All they will care about is how much it will cost the search and rescue team to find me if need be.

Or maybe they just understand how important preserving the Antarctic ice-cap is to the world climate and the atmosphere, and they don't want to screw it up?

Interesting, but what is going to happen to this continent of extreme cold and weather if a handful of crazy people go backpack around or sail a boat around the southern ocean.

They are protecting something... You don't try to wipe crumbs from your face when accused of eating cookies,,,, if you haven't eat'n any cookies..

 

[JacksBratt]

Cant any of you see that this discussion is so destructive to the reputation of Christians?

How?

 

[JacksBratt]

So you are allegedly not allowed to travel there (this has not yet been proven), to prevent you discovering that it doesn't exist, but you can book a cruise there and see for yourself that it does exist????

Ok, who said it doesn't exist? "they", the true believers of the FET (Flat Earth Theory) don't deny it's there.

What they are saying is that there is an ice wall that circumvents the plate shaped flat earth. And, this wall holds in all the oceans. There is land past this ice wall, probably the dome meets the ground out there somewhere.

Admiral Byrd stated that there was a mass of land "larger than the country of the United States "beyond the south Pole".

He also said that this was a wealth of natural resources. Ranging from coal, oil and minerals.

 

[JacksBratt]

I am both a scientist and a Christian and I certainly am not a flat-earther. The vast majority of my fellow Christians are not either. We know that the Bible espouses a flat earth cosmology but we do not regard that as a problem because the biblical authors wrote to people in language that they were able to comprehend in an entirely pre-scientific culture.

I am also a Christian and not a flat earther.

However, I am investigating things that do not add up. There are too many unanswered questions and, face it, if it were flat, you could use the biblical scripture and see that it does not contradict it.

Anytime we run into a problem with scripture and what modern scientists are telling us......we side with the modern scientist....I think this is wrong. I think, in the end, we will be ashamed at the things in the bible that we took as imagery, allegorical, metaphorical and they turned out to be fact.

 

[JackRT]

Thanks for that description. Not sure that it proves why the proposed "dome covered" model could not have rain, seasons, winds and such... But, it does describe how they work on a globe.

You would have to invent a whole new physics for your flat earth. The problem is that we already have a physics that works everywhere in the universe, not just under the dome.

Question...

IF the earth is rotating at 1000 mph, give or take, at the equator, and gravity holds me on the earth so that centrifugal force doesn't throw me off, and, gravity is always the same on every inch of the globe... Why am I not way heavier at the poles as I have far less centrifugal force opposing gravity as the rotation of the earth is much slower, relatively, at the poles?

Your problem is that we live on the curved surface of a sphere. Gravity always points to the centre of the earth but centrifugal force will only act diametrically opposite at the equator whereas as you get closer to the poles it increasingly becomes a sideways force. Also keep in mind that centrifugal force is actually a convenient fiction invented to provide a mathematical model for Newton's first law of motion when an object is moving on a curved path.

 

[JackRT]

Anytime we run into a problem with scripture and what modern scientists are telling us......we side with the modern scientist....I think this is wrong. I think, in the end, we will be ashamed at the things in the bible that we took as imagery, allegorical, metaphorical and they turned out to be fact.

At the moment I can think of just one similar conflict and that involves our understanding of human reproduction, but that is a whole other can of worms.

 

[JacksBratt]

You would have to invent a whole new physics for your flat earth. The problem is that we already have a physics that works everywhere in the universe, not just under the dome.



Your problem is that we live on the curved surface of a sphere. Gravity always points to the centre of the earth but centrifugal force will only act diametrically opposite at the equator whereas as you get closer to the poles it increasingly becomes a sideways force. Also keep in mind that centrifugal force is actually a convenient fiction invented to provide a mathematical model for Newton's first law of motion when an object is moving on a curved path.

So, shouldn't all the water in the oceans flow to the equator and form a big hill of water all around the globe, at the equator?

 

[squirrel123]

So, shouldn't all the water in the oceans flow to the equator and form a big hill of water all around the globe, at the equator?

Actually, a lot of it does. But not enough to make it obvious, because in building that big hill, it is fighting gravity, and gravity is strong enough to keep the hill not so very big.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you look back, a lot of conspiracy theories turned out to be actual facts. Check these out. Some don't seem that much like "tin foil hat" ideas, but, back then, they were full blown "get outta here" tin foil hat theories....:

33 Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out To Be True, What Every Person Should Know…

There is a reason for all conspiracy theories. They may be off the wall, they may go against academia, they may cause you to go "no way", and "are you serious, you believe that".

However, they don't just show up because someone had some hair brained idea and it caught fire...Nope, people notice something isn't right, they scratch a little, dig a little and find things aren't lining up... more join in and the observations continue to cause more questions...

Ask your wife's friends if they can lend you money to fly around the world and your problem is solved that the Earth is round and not flat. You cannot fly around the world on a flat earth because you will go off the other end that does not exist. In a round Earth you can return to the same spot you have been before traveling in a straight line. Take a compass with you. You will in effect have made a ring like travel around the Earth. You can actually fly around the world making stops.

https://www.airtreks.com/around-the-world-flights/

Also, take a piece of paper and connect the ends and you will get a ring like flat surface of travel. Are you saying the Earth is a flat ring kind of like Larry Niven's ring world?







Anyways, we know the Earth is not flat because you can take a flight from Sydney Australia to Santiago Chile with Quanta airlines (Which is a flight route that is not too far from the South pole).

You can go to Quantas website and book the flight yourself.

Flights | Book Cheap Flights and Air Tickets | Qantas

Put in the airport code SYD (for Sydney, Australia).
Then put in the airport code SCL (for Santiago, Chile).

Take a compass with you, and book the flight and enjoy!

Also, there are people who occasionally live in the South pole station in Amundsen.

Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station - Wikipedia

Then there are drifting stations in the North Pole:

Drifting ice station - Wikipedia

Again, if you are that skeptical, ask your wife's rich friends to help you find a way to go to the South Pole and the North Pole with an expedition team. If you have to get schooling, then so be it.

...

 

[Goatee]

You can in the right aircraft (Concorde or a U2, or even to some extent a 747 at 39,000 ft trans-Atlantic).

True.

 

[JacksBratt]

Ask your wife's friends if they can lend you money to fly around the world and your problem is solved that the Earth is round and not flat. You cannot fly around the world on a flat earth because you will go off the other end that does not exist. In a round Earth you can return to the same spot you have been before traveling in a straight line. Take a compass with you. You will in effect have made a ring like travel around the Earth. You can actually fly around the world making stops.

https://www.airtreks.com/around-the-world-flights/

Also, take a piece of paper and connect the ends and you will get a ring like flat surface of travel. Are you saying the Earth is a flat ring kind of like Larry Niven's ring world?







Anyways, we know the Earth is not flat because you can take a flight from Sydney Australia to Santiago Chile with Quanta airlines (Which is a flight route that is not too far from the South pole).

You can go to Quantas website and book the flight yourself.

Flights | Book Cheap Flights and Air Tickets | Qantas

Put in the airport code SYD (for Sydney, Australia).
Then put in the airport code SCL (for Santiago, Chile).

Take a compass with you, and book the flight and enjoy!

Also, there are people who occasionally live in the South pole station in Amundsen.

Amundsen–Scott South Pole Station - Wikipedia

Then there are drifting stations in the North Pole:

Drifting ice station - Wikipedia

Again, if you are that skeptical, ask your wife's rich friends to help you find a way to go to the South Pole and the North Pole with an expedition team. If you have to get schooling, then so be it.

...

I'm sorry, you just don't understand what they are suggesting as a flat earth model. You are trapped inside the box of the constraints of globe earth thinking.

On the flat earth model, if you got in a plane in, say, New York. You take off and fly east. You keep the north to the left side of the plane. You fly and fly and fly and you come back to New York.

I cannot help you. If you believe that you cannot "fly around" a flat earth model... I cannot help you. You cannot wrap your head around an alternate concept.

 

[RBPerry]

Personally I think this entire debate is senseless. First of all I think the ark story is a myth for a few reasons, the main one being.

An ark containing two of all living creatures is a physical impossibility. Noah's ark was 300 cubits by 50 cubits by 30 cubits in size per Genesis 6:15. A cubit was approximately 18 inches, yielding a volume (if perfectly rectangular, the most voluminous possible shape of three unequal dimensions) of 1,518,750 cubic feet. However that is not how a boat of that size would have been built.
Into this volume, Noah supposedly fit two of each of the 22,100 species of animals on Earth plus the food to keep all of them alive for a month. But it would be impossible to fit such a tremendous number of animals and food in such a relatively tiny volume of that dimension. Of course I'm not a bible literalist.

As for a flat earth, that doesn't even deserve a comment.