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A few questions

Discussion in 'For New Christians' started by PurpleThistles, Feb 27, 2020.

  1. PurpleThistles

    PurpleThistles New Member

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    I wholeheartedly have faith in Jesus and God. I want to live by His rules and His plans, whatever He wants me to do, or wants to do with me. I am following a read the bible in a year plan and the more I read and learn, the more questions I seem to have.

    For example, the bible tells us God hates divorce. It also tells us that if we divorce and remarry, we are adulterers (unless widowed) and so breaking one of His commandments.

    I’m not sure where this leaves myself. I am divorced and remarried. Long before I found my faith. My first husband I married when very young and had four children with. I divorced him after 9 years due to his drug addiction and subsequent volatile behaviour. He has since been convicted for assault of a minor, against two of my sons but two years on from this has access again one day a week (their choice).

    I went on to marry my husband and nearly five years on we have an 8 month old baby and he is a wonderful step father. He is an unbeliever however not entirely, he has attended church with me and I believe he will get there soon.

    Anyways, back to the point that regardless of circumstance etc, I am an adulterer and will continue to be so whilst I remain married to my husband. You can’t ask for forgiveness of a sin yet continue to do that same sin can you? Can I really be saved in this circumstance? Let’s say I would have to divorce my husband, if I wasn’t willing to do that, would I “really” have faith? Abraham was willing to sacrifice his own son for God.

    The Bible also says that homosexuality is an abomination. My daughters both have girlfriends. They were not brought up with Christian beliefs because I was not a Christian. I struggle with the bible here because I don’t think my girls are abominations. They are lovely, kind young women. Their father, who recently says he is now a Christian, has told them that homosexuality is evil so they have asked me if the Bible says that. I didn’t know what to say, so In the end I told them about Jesus new commandment, to love each other as he has loved us and that some people may not like or approve of other people’s choices but it shouldn’t stop them showing love. Ultimately however, the Bible is very clear on homosexuality. I don’t share those same views, so can I really be saved? Of course, I want my children to be saved too and pray about this but at the ages they are now, I can’t force them to faith and make them choose to obey God. I’m still working out how to do that myself hence this post!

    If you read all that, thank you and I hope I haven’t caused anyone any offence. Any input is gratefully welcome .
     
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  2. JesseRBassett

    JesseRBassett Carpe Diem! (Always seeking the face of God) Supporter Angels Team

    +238
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    I would pray and ask your pastor/minister for advice as well. This is a good place to get opinions, but seek professional advice first.
     
  3. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,908
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    This is in error. If this were the case, no one would receive forgiveness for any sins. This is contrary to the work on the Cross by Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Seek the truth so that it sets you free. You are in bondage of unbelief. Accept that your past sin is forgiven and be the best wife you can be to your current husband. I will pray for you. :prayer:
    Blessings
     
  4. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,908
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    As far as your daughters, your are not responsible for their sinful actions. They are not Christians. Walk in the Holy Spirit and lead by example. Love them as you always have. This is the will of the Father.
    Blessings
     
  5. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    +8,442
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    if you carefully examine the "divorce" references by Jesus and Paul in context, you will see that it is not as simple as some legalistic zealots want us to believe. It is not a simple case of one size fits all.

    Firstly, it is by grace we are saved, though our faith alone in Christ's finished work on Calvary; it is the gift of God, and not of works lest any should boast. This means that we are not debtors to the Law, because Jesus has paid the full price and penalty for our failure to keep the Law.

    Secondly, Jesus, under pressure from the Scribes and Pharisees, gave divorce and remarriage as an example of how our righteousness needs to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees - in that, external observance to the rules of the Law was not enough to justify us before God. God looks on the heart, and so the heart needs to be changed, and only Christ can do that through us being born again of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was not setting up an instruction manual on divorce and remarriage as some suppose.

    Thirdly, Paul's instructions concerning divorce and remarriage was for a particular reason - men in the Corinthian church were divorcing their wives for no other reason than they wanted to be closer to God and more spiritual as single men. So, his teaching was for just one reason, and therefore not meant for other reasons why divorce happens.

    As soon as a man either commits adultery, engages in domestic violence against his wife, or deserts her, he has broken the marriage contract. A man (or woman) who does that, sins against God's moral law. He has to accept the consequences of his action.

    But for the innocent spouse, the divorce has been done to him or her, and therefore there is no breach of God's moral law. We don't punish a victim of crime, or of domestic violence. That would go against natural justice. We support and help victims; and so it should be in the church - victims of divorce should be helped, not condemned along with the perpetrator.

    The trouble is that the church tends to shoot its wounded instead of helping them to get healed and well again.

    If any pastor or church counsellor says, "You should have shown more love to your spouse, and been more obedient to him, you could have prevented the problem", they are lying to you. You didn't make your spouse conduct himself the way he did. He chose it all by himself. What happened to you is the consequence of his choice.

    If after the trauma of your divorce, the Lord has directed you to a new husband who is showing you more love and support, then it is by His grace and mercy. It doesn't matter how strongly the legalists criticise you for remarrying, the grace and mercy of God is stronger and takes priority.

    So what if according to the Law you have committed adultery? We are not debtors to the Law that we should obey it. We can't obey it to perfection. That is why we cannot depend on our own righteousness, but upon the righteousness of Christ that has been given to us as God's free gift.

    If the religious zealots are saying that while you are married to your second husband you are continually committing adultery and should separate from him, wouldn't they be telling you to commit a grievous sin against your second husband and infant child? Do these people actually know anything about the grace and mercy of God by actually frustrating it in you by giving you their unreasonable and unloving demands?

    Notice that Paul never gave teaching on divorce and remarriage to any of the other churches, although they would have had divorce and remarriage happening for other reasons. You would think that if divorce and remarriage for reasons of domestic violence, fear for life, and desertion were issues that Paul was concerned with in all the churches, he would have included teaching on it in them as well as the Corinthian church.

    As far as getting "professional advice", don't consult a "Christian psychotherapist", because they are just the same as the secular ones - and their foundational principles come from atheistic theories. A good Christian counsellor who can counsel you from the Bible, and to show you a balanced view of divorce and remarriage, and how the love, grace, and mercy of God is extended to us, not on the basis of law and regulation, but on the finished work of Christ on the cross, will be much better for you- if you feel you need it.
     
  6. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,937
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    As you brought up two points I'll address them separately..

    1st though, the Bible is for God's covenanted people (i.e. Christians), none of the laws which apply us, would apply to those who don't want to follow him.

    Second. Concerning marriage. Under the New Covenant marriage is to be a reflection of God's covenant with us.

    If you notice in the Old Testaments whenever Israelites went after foreign gods or were otherwise not keeping their portion of the covenant promises God accused them of adultery or being adulterous.

    New Covenant marriage is to be a reflection of the covenant of Grace. We are to forgive others their sin if we expect it to be forgiven us, and inside the marriage covenant we are a reflection of God himself, to the best we are able to show.

    Since your previous marriages weren't consummated in the spirit of a believing covenant relationship before God, one can hardly hold your past against you.

    You go forward from this point forward a new creature in Christ Jesus. Your forgiven for your sin. Get on with your life...

    As for your daughters. God loves us even when we were enemies of him... He brings us into a restored relationship after we are saved..

    We don't hold ignorance of God and Christ against unbelievers, as we never know when they may become saved. Lord knows when we were saved we were sinful and full of ignorance.. so we don't judge the world - that's God's business.

    All we are called to do us share the love of Christ with the lost, and share the gospel with them when the opportunity arises for us to do so. But most of all, let your daughters see the love of Christ in you.. :)

    Don't worry about them being in sin, you were too before you were saved and found reconciliation with God..

    So fear not. .. no need to get all preachy about the needing to change their lives. God will work in their hearts about their own sin if He so desires, you just share the love of Christ.

    P.S. it's a sin, but we aren't judge jury or executioner of the world, we have our hands full enough trying to be good Christians and minding the Church and sharing the Gospel with the lost.

    Let God judge the world.
     
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  7. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

    +4,099
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    You are going to get varying answers to these questions. In evaluating them, consider how the Bible describes the wisdom from above, at James 3. Among other things, it will be pure and bring peace. Keep that as your guiding light.

    The Sermon on the Mount, and the New Testament in general, was not given as a bunch of rules set in stone like the Old Covenant had. They are principles of life that get to the motivations of our heart. 2Cor 3 tells our covenant is of spirit, not letter, because the letter kills but the spirit gives life.

    God hates divorce. But He also hates bad marriages. He hates abuse. He hates abandonment. He hates kids growing up with a warped idea of what marriage and family are.

    And take a look at Paul describing what he was forgiven of, and why, in 1Tim 1. God forgives when we confess.

    But does He expect you to divorce now? I would say an emphatic No. Far more damage would be done that way. Two wrongs do not make a right. Confess the sin, accept forgiveness, and begin to live your new life in Christ with a cleansed conscience. Put the past behind you and be free of it.


    The OT calls homosexuality and abomination. It is still a sin in the NT, but the sinner is not an abomination. The sinner is made in the likeness of God and is in need of salvation. Jesus didn't come to condemn, but to save. The only people He got angry with were those with hard hearts who used religion as a weapon against people. Love your daughters the way the are, and patiently minister truth to them. Keep praying, and look for ways to speak a kind, corrective word, or get them to church, etc. The Lord knows how to make a way where there was none.

    I hope you are encouraged and blessed, you and your family.
     
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  8. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

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    I agree with a lot of what has been said so I won't say it again. I couldn't have said it better anyways. I'll just add a reminder of how God's grace graciously brought you in. He hasn't changed now that He's called you this far. He wants to call you further in, and He wants to bring those around you as well. None of us can scrub ourselves clean enough to be accepted - yet the standard of holiness is obviously there and He woos us to want that kind of life with all our hearts. If we are like Him, we will also offer that graciousness to others. Standards are there - whether it is/was our sin or someone else's, but love covers a multitude of sins and extends the welcome to find forgiveness in God's grace. May the grace that brought you in extend to all those around you as you walk closer to Him. He can make a wonderful new story out of all of this as you press in to His very heart. When your heart was touched, you realized how your behaviors needed adjusting and found in your freedom the strength to make changes that before were just not in sight. May it be so with your daughters as well - loved by God in Christ from the inside out.
     
  9. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,558
    Presbyterian
    Single
    When you read Jesus' teachings, you need to read them against the background of the basic principles that rules are made for our good, not to condemn us. You can find them a number of places in the Gospels, but one characteristic example is his statement that the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.

    In his time one major school of thought said that a man could divorce his wife for any cause, even if she burned his soup. Further, in that period there was no alimony, and decent women didn't have careers. A woman who was divorced was sunk. Jesus upheld the original ideal that marriage was a permanent relationship. But no one asked him about cases of abuse, or other situations where staying could be worse than leaving. There's no reason to think he would speak differently of marriage than the sabbath. It's to help us, not to be a dysfunctional mess. Nor is there any reason to think that divorce -- even if it was wrong -- in the unforgiveable sin.

    CF has policies that prohibit full discussion of homosexuality. That's only possible in the liberal forum, which has very little activity. I certainly hope Christians don't try to make you choose between Jesus and your daughters. That never ends well for anyone.
     
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  10. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,523
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    What happens prior to you becoming a Christian is no longer an issue in God's eyes. So your prior marriage does not count. Not only does God forgive, He forgets!

    It helps to know God's word. God forgave King David, even though he was an adulterer who murdered to cover up his sin. As long as your husband agrees to live with you without strife, you should stay married.

    Being nice is not a qualification for heaven, unfortunately. I don't believe that overemphasising God's judgement on a particular sin is helpful. However, homosexuality came about because of rebellion. You only have to listen to the alphabet soup of homosexual apologists to realise that they defy God in ways that demonstrate their rebellious hearts. Sin is sin. Some sins have greater consequences than others. I lost a friend to AIDS. He was a Christian who backslid and went back to his old lifestyle. I'd lost contact with him by then and I found out through someone else. It is a terrible waste of a life. He had amazing talents and abilities but they never really were used in God's service.

    You will find out some vital things about the Christian life. First, it is not up to us to change ourselves. No doubt you will try and fail. You will also discover that God does not expect anything from you. Otherwise, we would not need Lord Jesus. Hopefully soon, you will discover that God has given you Jesus to be your life, your holiness, your wisdom, your patience, your love and everything else that you need.
     
  11. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    ***

    God hates sin (any sin) but loves the sinner. We are to be kind to everyone.

    My sister is gay and has been almost all her life .... she is now 69 years old. We have had conversations about the Lords viewpoint on the matter here and there ... she is aware of what is written in His word. No point on dwelling on it or reminding her of it. She's my sister and she makes choices for herself ... just as we all do.

    Each of us are responsible for our own sin and I understand and accept that many people I love and care about may not be saved. As long as they are alive on earth change is possible. It's up to Jesus to save and I know He will give ample opportunity for people to be saved. He is always near. Our part is to love them, point them to Jesus and pray for them.

    He views the sin of homosexuality as abominable ... not the person(s). Don't think for one minute the Lord doesn't love your daughters (He died for them) ... He loves them and I'm sure is working in their hearts.

    If someone asks me what does the bible says about (whatever) then the truth in His word is the truth. But I also let them know I struggle with sin as well and that everybody does, but we are to ask for forgiveness and repent (turn away from it) and this is an ongoing process throughout our lives.

    So .. love them ... treat them kindly and pray for them.

    As far as your previous marriage etc. same principles apply .... ask for forgiveness and repent ... and know He forgives quickly and completely. When you do this ... do not dwell on the past ... the past is forgiven and begin anew. Go and sin no more.
    go read John 8:1-11

    Continue on your journey through His word and rest in His faithfulness.

    Thank you Jesus for your loving patience and help us all to have a closer walk with you. Amen.

    May the Lord being peace to your heart. ;o)

    1 John 1:9 – If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Psalm 103:10-14 – He has not punished us as we deserve for all our sins, for his mercy toward those who fear and honor him is as great as the height of the heavens above the earth.
     
  12. PurpleThistles

    PurpleThistles New Member

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    Thank you for all the replies, they have all been so helpful and given me lots to think about. I do hope my questions haven’t caused any offence to anyone, it wasn’t my intention.These two issues are the only real stumbling blocks I haven’t been able to work out so I really appreciate the replies.
     
  13. CaspianSails

    CaspianSails Member

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