A Few Questions

Boidae

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My wife decided this morning to try out a Lutheran church on her own. Her reasoning being that she can check it out for her mom and I knowing that because it's very similar to Catholicism we would be more comfortable and willing to go next week.

She came home and let us know that the service is familiar as it's close to what a Catholic mass is like. I asked her if she liked it, and her answer was it's different, but that she's will not likely make that her home church or a church where we go as a family each week (which means that my MIL and I can go every week, but that she may not be joining us). The lack of a nursery is one of her contributing factors. She is also very fond of a pentecostal service and wants the Holy Spirit to lead service with signs of the Holy Spirit working through slayings in the spirit and tongues.

Okay, on to my questions.

Does the Lutheran church see a marriage is valid even if the husband and wife were not married in the Lutheran church?

I ask this because it is one of the biggest things keeping me from the Catholic church as I am a cradle Catholic, but walked away as a teenager. I came back to Christ when I met my wife and have been in and out of churches since. I did return to the Catholic church only to find that my marriage is invalid because we were not married by a priest in the Catholic church. I was also told that God doesn't recognize our marriage because the Catholic church doesn't. So we're living in sin if we will not live as brother and sister until we got convalidated or I got a radical sanation.

Does the Lutheran church require you go through classes in order to become Lutheran?

Is confession to a pastor required to partake of communion?

If it means anything or will havean effect on the answer, the Lutheran church that she went to is part of the NALC.
 

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Does the Lutheran church see a marriage is valid even if the husband and wife were not married in the Lutheran church?
Yes

Does the Lutheran church require you go through classes in order to become Lutheran?
If both of you are already baptized Christians than you would most likely go through some sort of catechism classes. Exactly what is covered, how extensive, and how long it is varies by individual church. But it should be centered around the small catechism (you can find as a sticky here, minus the more in depth explanation). Figure a class each for each portion of the catechism and one or two other sessions at a minimum to cover additional topics. But some churches go much more extensive. Your best bet here will be to talk with the Pastor of the church.

Is confession to a pastor required to partake of communion?
Most Lutheran Churches practice corporate confession during the liturgy with a generalized prayer and absolution and usually a few moments for reflection, rather than having time set aside for private individual confession. Private confession is of course available, but not particularly common in my experience and certainly not required. If you join the church it'll be covered in more depth during one of the classes the Pastor should be giving you.
 
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Does the Lutheran church require you go through classes in order to become Lutheran?

If it means anything or will havean effect on the answer, the Lutheran church that she went to is part of the NALC.

When we joined a NALC church, the process was pretty painless. The pastor did not probe to see if we were Lutheran enough. My impression was that any Christian was welcome to join. I don't agree with women's ordination (the NALC ordains women), but it was not an issue for the pastor (who is male).
 
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My wife decided this morning to try out a Lutheran church on her own. Her reasoning being that she can check it out for her mom and I knowing that because it's very similar to Catholicism we would be more comfortable and willing to go next week.

She came home and let us know that the service is familiar as it's close to what a Catholic mass is like. I asked her if she liked it, and her answer was it's different, but that she's will not likely make that her home church or a church where we go as a family each week (which means that my MIL and I can go every week, but that she may not be joining us). The lack of a nursery is one of her contributing factors. She is also very fond of a pentecostal service and wants the Holy Spirit to lead service with signs of the Holy Spirit working through slayings in the spirit and tongues.

Okay, on to my questions.

Does the Lutheran church see a marriage is valid even if the husband and wife were not married in the Lutheran church?

I ask this because it is one of the biggest things keeping me from the Catholic church as I am a cradle Catholic, but walked away as a teenager. I came back to Christ when I met my wife and have been in and out of churches since. I did return to the Catholic church only to find that my marriage is invalid because we were not married by a priest in the Catholic church. I was also told that God doesn't recognize our marriage because the Catholic church doesn't. So we're living in sin if we will not live as brother and sister until we got convalidated or I got a radical sanation.

Does the Lutheran church require you go through classes in order to become Lutheran?

Is confession to a pastor required to partake of communion?

If it means anything or will havean effect on the answer, the Lutheran church that she went to is part of the NALC.


Does the Lutheran church see a marriage is valid even if the husband and wife were not married in the Lutheran church?

Yes. We presume all marriages as valid. In fact "validity" is not even a issue that comes up much in my experience. When Paul addressed married people, these were presumably people married in pagan temples and in pagan ceremonies before becoming Christian, and he doesn't comment at all regarding validity.

Does the Lutheran church require you go through classes in order to become Lutheran?

Generally yes. But my wife and I simply met with the pastor once per week for a few months. It wasn't very formal or serious. It's based on the pastors discretion.

Is confession to a pastor required to partake of communion?

We practice communal, general confession. If you prefer individual private confession, you can request your pastor do it for you. We have a rite of individual confession for those that request it.

If it means anything or will havean effect on the answer, the Lutheran church that she went to is part of the NALC.

Different synods have slightly different practices, but they are all pretty similar (in practice). The different synods can be vastly different in terms of fellowship, ordination, and things of that nature.
 
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Boidae

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Thank you for the responses. They put my mind at ease.

Now if I can just have it so my whole family wants to go to only one church, and only one church as that had been my heart's desire for a few years now.

I guess one of the biggest hurdles for my wife is the fact that the were no couples our age at the service of if there was, it was one couple only. So there is not a chance for fellowship outside of the church walls.

The other would be a lack of a nursery or children's program. I guess Sunday school would come as a children's program, but what were talking about is a program that meets during the week, goes on field trips and goes on missions trips.
 
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Daniel Stinson

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My wife decided this morning to try out a Lutheran church on her own. Her reasoning being that she can check it out for her mom and I knowing that because it's very similar to Catholicism we would be more comfortable and willing to go next week.

She came home and let us know that the service is familiar as it's close to what a Catholic mass is like. I asked her if she liked it, and her answer was it's different, but that she's will not likely make that her home church or a church where we go as a family each week (which means that my MIL and I can go every week, but that she may not be joining us). The lack of a nursery is one of her contributing factors. She is also very fond of a pentecostal service and wants the Holy Spirit to lead service with signs of the Holy Spirit working through slayings in the spirit and tongues.

Okay, on to my questions.

Does the Lutheran church see a marriage is valid even if the husband and wife were not married in the Lutheran church?

I ask this because it is one of the biggest things keeping me from the Catholic church as I am a cradle Catholic, but walked away as a teenager. I came back to Christ when I met my wife and have been in and out of churches since. I did return to the Catholic church only to find that my marriage is invalid because we were not married by a priest in the Catholic church. I was also told that God doesn't recognize our marriage because the Catholic church doesn't. So we're living in sin if we will not live as brother and sister until we got convalidated or I got a radical sanation.

Does the Lutheran church require you go through classes in order to become Lutheran?

Is confession to a pastor required to partake of communion?

If it means anything or will havean effect on the answer, the Lutheran church that she went to is part of the NALC.
If you're looking for traditional Catholicism, it's much easier to find in the LCMS, ELS, or WELS. The ELCA or NLAC will be very contemporary for the average Roman-Catholic.

In Christianity, you're generally assumed to be married when two of the flesh join together as one, male and female. Being married in the flesh isn't exactly a holy matrimony, recognized by any Church, but this doesn't mean you can't make a confession of faith asking God for forgiveness. At some point, asking for God's blessing onto to you and your spouse in marriage should take place, especially if all you have is a marriage certificate from a courthouse. In such instances, some couples will ask their pastor for a holy matrimony, where they're essentially renewing their vows, only before God, rather than a judge.

As a congregational member of the LCMS, I can tell you that we aren't into the practice of calling into question existing marriages performed by Trinitarian clergy. The LCMS won't knowingly admit anyone into congregational membership while fornification is taking place or a family is outside of wedlock. Even though I'm already confirmed, I attended adult confirmation with my wife, so that she could join the congregation. While in adult confirmation on Sundays, my wife and I attended marriage counseling for a little over 6-months, whenever pastor had an opening in his schedule.

Adult confirmation through a catechesis class is required before membership into the congregation is granted. Congregational membership is a confirmation of your faith, stating that the Lutheran Confessional documents of faith found in the 1580 Book of Concord, are in keeping with the true Christian and catholic faith. Congregational membership in the LCMS grants access to the Lords Supper, voting rights at council meetings, participation on Church councils/boards, altar guilds, ushering/greeting, teaching/instructor, or the pursuit of a chairmanship on a council/board.

Tongues is an Old English term that simply means "foreign language" in our post-modern English. The Biblical account of "tongues" in the Book of Acts clearly mentions the specific foreign languages being spoken. The Holy Spirit very specifically, grants upon his will, the discernment of tongues among those in the crowd. The Bible places restrictions on the use of tongues, to include two or more must be available for translation of the tongues; when and where the Holy Spirit isn't granting the gift of discernment. An Angelic Tongue so to speak is only briefly mentioned in Scripture apart from any details; and is generally regarded throughout ancient Christianity as a Semitic language like Hebrew or Aramaic for instance. All LCMS pastors must complete two-years of Hebrew and Koine (Attic Greek) immediately upon entering our seminaries. They're also expected to have a general knowledge of Latin. The ELS, WELS, and LCMS pastors are well equipped in seminary to have a broad knowledge of the native tongues of our Bible. Extensive historical context is also part of their training to better understand the context of Biblical accounts.

Lutherans practice vicarious atonement (imputed faith) where God receives 100% of the credit in all matters pertaining to our belief. Pentecostals practice governmental atonement (God initiates, while mankind completes acts of faith) which is why you'll see exuberant enthusiasm exercised as a form of proof, works righteousness, or the Holy Spirit supposedly being present. Biblically, the Holy Spirit is only available where God's Word and Sacrament are present. Most Pentecostals practice Dispensational Theology which butchers the ancient context and interpretations of Scripture that have been passed down to Christians over the centuries. Pentecostals require a believer's baptism (Jesus as the Christ) and another baptism by fire (works righteousness displaying an abundance of the gifts given by the Holy Spirit). The Books of Corinthians contradicts Pentecostalism in that, the Holy Spirit gives various gifts accordingly to various people in accordance to how they have been called into service by God. Pentecostals believe they can coerce the Holy Spirit into giving them gifts according to how they want God to call them, rather than letting God reveal the/these gift(s) to us as he has predestined it. A cross is rarely present in Pentecostal congregations, because God's death on the cross is generally viewed by Pentecostals as unnecessary, because Pentecostals believe their works righteousness in the Holy Spirit can overcome original/actual sin. According the Bible, our natural nature is the flesh, which cannot believe in God, so our belief or faith is given to us by the Holy Spirit. So, technically, apart from receiving baptism (imputed faith from God) there's really no such thing as a believer's baptism or even a believer's prayer. As Lutherans, our role is a passive one in terms of our relationship with the Holy Spirit; while the Holy Spirit's role is an active one with us; just the opposite of Pentecostalism.

Yes, Lutheranism does require confession, before participation in the Lord's Supper. As mentioned by others, our liturgy includes a public confession of our sins in thought, word, and deed. The liturgy follows with a moment of silence for examination, by God, of our genuine nature in this confession of sins; and we will confess in our thoughts, any specific sins, that weigh heavily on our hearts and minds. Individuals, Spouses, families, or even multiple congregational members can request private/group confession/counseling in the pastor's chamber/office. Unlike Roman-Catholicism, private confession in Lutheranism is face-to-face with the pastor.

In our LCMS hymnal, each song has subscript at the bottom, which indicates which Bible verses you're singing from within the hymn. Also, the LCMS predominantly uses the 3-year lectionary which completes the New Testament and supporting Old Testament readings associated with or quoted by Christ Jesus and his apostles. The overwhelming abundance of Scripture from beginning to end of worship service maintains the focus on God thru his Word, rather than false piety or a smooth talking preacher. Some Lutheran congregations will speak aloud a gradual or chant from the Book of Psalms, my congregation chants from the Book of Psalms.
 
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A quick note regarding nurseries -- although some Lutheran congregations do offer nursery service during worship, the view of Lutheran theology is that children - even unborn children - benefit from hearing God's Word. Since it is the Word that is living and active and which goes forth to accomplish God's purpose, the age or mental capacities of the hearer do not play a role in God's action to grant or build faith in Christ. Lutherans are very emphatic that one need not rationally comprehend the words being spoken in order for God's Word to be carried along to accomplish what God intends for it to do.
 
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LilLamb219

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A quick note regarding nurseries -- although some Lutheran congregations do offer nursery service during worship, the view of Lutheran theology is that children - even unborn children - benefit from hearing God's Word. Since it is the Word that is living and active and which goes forth to accomplish God's purpose, the age or mental capacities of the hearer do not play a role in God's action to grant or build faith in Christ. Lutherans are very emphatic that one need not rationally comprehend the words being spoken in order for God's Word to be carried along to accomplish what God intends for it to do.

What he said! :thumbsup:

I know that some parents would rather take their children away when they get fussy but most Lutherans are used to it and are glad to have the children present in services :)
 
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Boidae

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Our daughter is nearly two and does not sit still for 30 seconds. It really is not a good idea for her to attend services right now. If we brought her into the service, one of us would not be really be attending the service because we would have to constantly get up and bring her out of the sanctuary. That someone would always be me.

When I say nursery, I am talking about what the church we were attending before had. It was called the nursery, but they learned about God while doing activities that were age appropriate.
 
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Daniel Stinson

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A quick note regarding nurseries -- although some Lutheran congregations do offer nursery service during worship, the view of Lutheran theology is that children - even unborn children - benefit from hearing God's Word. Since it is the Word that is living and active and which goes forth to accomplish God's purpose, the age or mental capacities of the hearer do not play a role in God's action to grant or build faith in Christ. Lutherans are very emphatic that one need not rationally comprehend the words being spoken in order for God's Word to be carried along to accomplish what God intends for it to do.
I completely agree, my wife and I kept our children in the sanctuary as long as possible.

We would step out into the Narthex or Fellowship Hall and calm our kids, before making the final trip to the nursery.

Our new building now has a Cry Room attached to the Sanctuary, with a one-way mirrored window overlooking the worship service. We're still connecting the intercom system so that they can hear the singing better and obviously the sermon itself. It's especially helpful during communion, because the nursery can see the activities for themselves.

I don't think a small congregation would mind if you sat with your child in the Pre-K classroom or in the Fellowship Hall if the child is abnormally unruly.

My child got bounced out of Charles Stanley's 1st Baptist of Atlanta, while visiting there with friends, being told "your child will be a distraction". One of our elders visited with friends at 1st Redeemer Baptist Church here in Cumming, GA and likewise, was bounced out of the sanctuary, because his child would "disturb the Holy Spirit". In both instances, our toddlers were quiet and well behaved. Both congregations are televangelists, so I guess the standards are far different from what any Lutheran would be used to.

My dad answered an altar call to be baptized at his childhood congregation, Carlisle Avenue Baptist Church in Louisville, KY and was laughed away by the pastor who told him he wasn't yet old enough to make a choice for God. My dad believes he was approximately 10-years of age at the time.

So, I can certainly see why visitors would be anxious to find a nursery in some Christian congregations. I should hope and pray that Lutherans never step to such a low regard towards those "least among us".
 
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Thank you for the responses. They put my mind at ease.

Now if I can just have it so my whole family wants to go to only one church, and only one church as that had been my heart's desire for a few years now.

I guess one of the biggest hurdles for my wife is the fact that the were no couples our age at the service of if there was, it was one couple only. So there is not a chance for fellowship outside of the church walls.

The other would be a lack of a nursery or children's program. I guess Sunday school would come as a children's program, but what were talking about is a program that meets during the week, goes on field trips and goes on missions trips.

There will always be a secular reason to keep one from joining a church. That's how Satan works. While what you talk about is nice for a church to have, it is not required, and it's possible there are other people in this congregation who want the same thing and they're just waiting for someone else!

Our daughter is nearly two and does not sit still for 30 seconds. It really is not a good idea for her to attend services right now. If we brought her into the service, one of us would not be really be attending the service because we would have to constantly get up and bring her out of the sanctuary. That someone would always be me.

When I say nursery, I am talking about what the church we were attending before had. It was called the nursery, but they learned about God while doing activities that were age appropriate.

I had three children under the age of 3 during our worship services. Yes, they had a penchant for being loud. They squirmed. I got embarrassed now and then, and I got dirty looks from people. But I kept them in church, because God tells us specifically to let the little children come to them. Anyone who complained, if they had the guts to, received an invitation to help out any time they wanted.

I believe "age appropriate bible activities" is somewhat of a misnomer when it comes to religion. God isn't a respecter of ages, and saying that a child can't understand what is going on a service limits the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Boidae

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Then maybe this Lutheran church isn't for us after all. What I have said is a requirement for me and my wife for a church to have. It would also be a major plus for my wife and my heart's desire of having a family that attends church together and calls that church home is closer to being a reality.

From what I understand the woman doing the service is an interim pastor till they find someone more permanent. So to me they are in the process of rebuilding, but they do not know how long it will take.

I have found another Lutheran church in my town and this seems to be a bit more lively and they have a nursery too, at least according to their website. It is a LCMS affiliated church as well.

I just cannot in good concious bring my daughter into a service.
 
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LilLamb219

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My mom used to sit up front so that my sister and I could see what was going on in church when we were little. But we were shy and didn't really act up.

Then maybe this Lutheran church isn't for us after all. What I have said is a requirement for me and my wife for a church to have. It would also be a major plus for my wife and my heart's desire of having a family that attends church together and calls that church home is closer to being a reality.

From what I understand the woman doing the service is an interim pastor till they find someone more permanent. So to me they are in the process of rebuilding, but they do not know how long it will take.

I have found another Lutheran church in my town and this seems to be a bit more lively and they have a nursery too, at least according to their website. It is a LCMS affiliated church as well.

I just cannot in good concious bring my daughter into a service.
 
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Boidae

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My mom used to sit up front so that my sister and I could see what was going on in church when we were little. But we were shy and didn't really act up.

My daughter is shy to a point, but she overcomes the shyness when she is bored. My MIL and I took her to one Catholic mass with us, We ended up leaving 1/4 of the way through. She would not sit still and made sure everyone knew that she didn't want to sit still.
 
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My daughter is shy to a point, but she overcomes the shyness when she is bored. My MIL and I took her to one Catholic mass with us, We ended up leaving 1/4 of the way through. She would not sit still and made sure everyone knew that she didn't want to sit still.

Our church hands out busy bags to the kids. There are coloring books inside, reading books, stuff like that. Maybe you can come up with a quiet busy bag for her?
 
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Boidae

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Our church hands out busy bags to the kids. There are coloring books inside, reading books, stuff like that. Maybe you can come up with a quiet busy bag for her?

We have tried stuff like that in the home. However, it holds her attention for a few minutes and not much longer. She is a very active, very hyper 22 month old.
 
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Boidae

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That's a shame then. Your child is losing out.

Your opinion and one that we do not share. We have too much respect for other people in the service to keep our child in there while she screams and cries.

As I said, I have found another Lutheran church in our town that has a nursery and chances for fellowship outside of the church. I will probably check them out this weekend if I do not go to the one that my wife went to.
 
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Our church hands out busy bags to the kids. There are coloring books inside, reading books, stuff like that. Maybe you can come up with a quiet busy bag for her?

Funnily enough, I often accidentally refer to those as "naughty bags". My kids are actually more ill-behaved when they have them.

They're getting to the age where I will probably have them fill out papers that talk about the service - like what hymn they liked best, what was the main message of the sermon and how did it tie into the other readings, etc. That way, I know they're paying attention.

Our youngest has always drawn pictures of the service, so it won't be a leap for him!
 
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