A few questions for Protestants

[YeshuaFan]

The Holy Spirit

the Holy Spirit role not evident in the teachings and dogmas of Rome though!

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I am giving it forth as a reformed view, as we are fully justified in Him by the father the very Moment we receive thru faith Jesus as lord and Savior!

Not sure if Calvin even taught once saved always saved. And the Bible does not teach that either. Jesus requires repentance not merely mental ascent.
He begins the work of regeneration in you when you receive Him, but you must cooperate with that grace in obedience, for Our Lord says He that endures to the end will be saved.
If any man come after me left him first deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me
That does not sound like a one time act.
Trent does not deny that salvation comes from God alone, by grace alone. Grace once received produces faith, Hope and Charity. These gifts from God produce further good works in prudence, Justice, temperance , and fortitude. Pauline justification states in 1Cor13, that if I had faith as to move mountains, but have not charity (ie Faith alone), I am nothing.
Trent counters the Lutheran view, but it is not anti-biblical. Jesus commands us to do two things once we receive Him. Be baptized, and eat His flesh and drink His blood. John 6 contains nothing symbolic, and Jesus Himself was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. God leads by example and commands us nothing He is not willing to do Himself

 

[YeshuaFan]

Not sure if Calvin even taught once saved always saved. And the Bible does not teach that either. Jesus requires repentance not merely mental ascent.
He begins the work of regeneration in you when you receive Him, but you must cooperate with that grace in obedience, for Our Lord says He that endures to the end will be saved.
If any man come after me left him first deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me
That does not sound like a one time act.
Trent does not deny that salvation comes from God alone, by grace alone. Grace once received produces faith, Hope and Charity. These gifts from God produce further good works in prudence, Justice, temperance , and fortitude. Pauline justification states in 1Cor13, that if I had faith as to move mountains, but have not charity (ie Faith alone), I am nothing.
Trent counters the Lutheran view, but it is not anti-biblical. Jesus commands us to do two things once we receive Him. Be baptized, and eat His flesh and drink His blood. John 6 contains nothing symbolic, and Jesus Himself was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. God leads by example and commands us nothing He is not willing to do Himself

We hold to the elect of God will confirm that truth by staying faithful unto the end of their lives, and that all that God requires to have us to get saved is to receive Jesus as Lord and savior thru faith alone

 

[Buzzard3]

We hold to the elect of God will confirm that truth by staying faithful unto the end of their lives, and that all that God requires to have us to get saved is to receive Jesus as Lord and savior thru faith alone

So all Ted Bundy had to do was accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and he could rape and torture and murder young women to his heart's content ... and still get to Heaven?

 

[YeshuaFan]

So all Ted Bundy had to do was accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and he could rape and torture and murder young women to his heart's content ... and still get to Heaven?

if Jesus paid for His sins, then yes, even he could have gone to heaven, as the worst crime even down was when mankind nailed God Himself to that Cross and crucified him!

 

[Buzzard3]

if Jesus paid for His sins, then yes, even he could have gone to heaven, as the worst crime even down was when mankind nailed God Himself to that Cross and crucified him!

Hang on, let me get this straight: If Ted Bundy accepted Jesus as his Lord and Saviour ... and then spent the rest of his life raping, torturing and murdering dozens of women, you're saying he would still be saved and go to Heaven?

 

[timothyu]

Jeremiah 16:19 O Lord, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

We hold to the elect of God will confirm that truth by staying faithful unto the end of their lives, and that all that God requires to have us to get saved is to receive Jesus as Lord and savior thru faith alone

The only time the words Faith and alone appear in the Bible is in James Chapter 2 where is says we are saved by works and not faith alone. Not sure how you base your theology on scripture when it directly contradicts it.
Trent affirms that Faith, Hope and Charity are gifts of God that are given to us by grace at the instant of repentance, but just like the parable of the seed, the gifts must be nurtured in good soil. One cannot make a one time profession of faith in Christ, then live a life of sin and debauchery completely ignorant and hostile to Christ and His church and have any expectation of mercy based on that one time act. One may yet find the path to life if he repents, but leading a life of sin is the highway that leads to hell.
True perseverance of the saints involves the elect getting closer to Christ. The become extremely sensitive to sin. Every breach of Christ’s commands becomes another blow when He was scourged at the pillar. An idle word or mockery becomes another mouthful of spittle as He wears the crown of thorns, and any grievous sin is another pounding of the nails that caused His blood to spill. We do not rely on a one time profession and ignore our sins, we continually strive to cease to sin, and if caught in a habit pray to the Lord for deliverance. It is out of love for Christ and the desire not to cause Him any more pain. As He said, if you love Me, keep my commandments.
We are but dust, and God does not owe us salvation, we seek to mortify the deeds of the flesh and bring our bodies under subjection to the law of God out of love for His sacrifice

 

[YeshuaFan]

Hang on, let me get this straight: If Ted Bundy accepted Jesus as his Lord and Saviour ... and then spent the rest of his life raping, torturing and murdering dozens of women, you're saying he would still be saved and go to Heaven?

NO, saying that say before he was being executed, if he had a real turning towards the Lord Jesus, he would have received full pardon for all of his many sins!

 

[YeshuaFan]

The only time the words Faith and alone appear in the Bible is in James Chapter 2 where is says we are saved by works and not faith alone. Not sure how you base your theology on scripture when it directly contradicts it.
Trent affirms that Faith, Hope and Charity are gifts of God that are given to us by grace at the instant of repentance, but just like the parable of the seed, the gifts must be nurtured in good soil. One cannot make a one time profession of faith in Christ, then live a life of sin and debauchery completely ignorant and hostile to Christ and His church and have any expectation of mercy based on that one time act. One may yet find the path to life if he repents, but leading a life of sin is the highway that leads to hell.
True perseverance of the saints involves the elect getting closer to Christ. The become extremely sensitive to sin. Every breach of Christ’s commands becomes another blow when He was scourged at the pillar. An idle word or mockery becomes another mouthful of spittle as He wears the crown of thorns, and any grievous sin is another pounding of the nails that caused His blood to spill. We do not rely on a one time profession and ignore our sins, we continually strive to cease to sin, and if caught in a habit pray to the Lord for deliverance. It is out of love for Christ and the desire not to cause Him any more pain. As He said, if you love Me, keep my commandments.
We are but dust, and God does not owe us salvation, we seek to mortify the deeds of the flesh and bring our bodies under subjection to the law of God out of love for His sacrifice

We hold that one is fully and forever justified the very moment receives Lord Jesus thru faith, but Romes holds to sacramental gracing, and mixes up justification with sanctification!

 

[Buzzard3]

We hold that one is fully and forever justified the moment receives Lord Jesus thru faith

Interesting doctrine. So if a young Ted Bundy, for example, accepted Jesus as his Lord and Saviour, according to you, he becomes "fully and forever justified".

That means that after becoming "fully and forever justified", Ted can then spent the rest of his life raping, torturing and murdering dozens of women ... and still be granted eternal life in Heaven, does it not?

 

[Buzzard3]

We hold that one is fully and forever justified the very moment receives Lord Jesus thru faith

That means if you lose your faith, you are still "fully and forever justified". You must be joking.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

We hold that one is fully and forever justified the very moment receives Lord Jesus thru faith, but Romes holds to sacramental gracing, and mixes up justification with sanctification!

Would like to see how you come to that scriptural conclusion. Jesus says to enter at the narrow gate, narrow is the way straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it. As far as justification and sanctification go, do you believe that there is an eternal and a temporal punishment for sin?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Interesting doctrine. So if a young Ted Bundy, for example, accepted Jesus as his Lord and Saviour, according to you, he becomes "fully and forever justified".

That means that after becoming "fully and forever justified", Ted can then spent the rest of his life raping, torturing and murdering dozens of women ... and still be granted eternal life in Heaven, does it not?

no, if a Ted Bundy had become saved, thern he would have experience a transformation, new life in Christ, and would n olt haved been doing all of his sex acts and killings!
There is evidence however that he did repent and trust in Christ to save Him while facing death, if true, he would be in heaven....

 

[YeshuaFan]

That means if you lose your faith, you are still "fully and forever justified". You must be joking.

Faith is the gift of God towards us, and we are eternal secured by the Holy Spirit into Christ, as he is the High Priest that intercedes for his own, and NONE of them ever will get lost again!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Would like to see how you come to that scriptural conclusion. Jesus says to enter at the narrow gate, narrow is the way straight is the gate that leads to life and few there be that find it. As far as justification and sanctification go, do you believe that there is an eternal and a temporal punishment for sin?

He Himself is the narrow way to heaven, and all who enter thru Him are saved forever!

 

[timothyu]

He Himself is the narrow way to heaven, and all who enter thru Him are saved forever!

Yes but a little clarification. No one goes to heaven but the new Kingdom comes down to us from Heaven. That Kingdom will be led by the Kingdom/governance of God where His will will be done in earth as it is in Heaven, so yes Jesus is the way, not only as our Lord but as we live under the will of God, which is to care for each other as we would be cared for. To enter is to reject the world of man.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

He Himself is the narrow way to heaven, and all who enter thru Him are saved forever!

Then why would He say not everyone that says to me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only those that do the will of my Father?
Jesus is mighty to save and there is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved, but He does not ignore sin. He states that anyone that will come after Him, let him first deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. He does not say just take me as savior don’t worry about sin. We are called to repentance, and He gives us the power to do it if we ask Him.
You are in a dangerous position, as it seems that you think repentance is unnecessary. I pray that your heart may changed.
Increase in virtue takes work and the scriptures state in Paul’s letter to the Corinthians that we will be judged by our works. Some gold, silver, precious stones, others wood, hay and stubble, and our works will be tried by fire. Repent before it is too late

 

[hedrick]

Not sure if Calvin even taught once saved always saved. And the Bible does not teach that either. Jesus requires repentance not merely mental ascent.
He begins the work of regeneration in you when you receive Him, but you must cooperate with that grace in obedience, for Our Lord says He that endures to the end will be saved.
If any man come after me left him first deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me
That does not sound like a one time act.
Trent does not deny that salvation comes from God alone, by grace alone. Grace once received produces faith, Hope and Charity. These gifts from God produce further good works in prudence, Justice, temperance , and fortitude. Pauline justification states in 1Cor13, that if I had faith as to move mountains, but have not charity (ie Faith alone), I am nothing.
Trent counters the Lutheran view, but it is not anti-biblical. Jesus commands us to do two things once we receive Him. Be baptized, and eat His flesh and drink His blood. John 6 contains nothing symbolic, and Jesus Himself was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. God leads by example and commands us nothing He is not willing to do Himself

Calvin didn’t teach OSAS as it is usually taught. He believed that God chose people, and would not go back on that. But he was aware that we don’t know for sure who is chosen, though he thought people should generally feel assurance.

I think OSAS implies that if you show the usual evidence of salvation and fall away, you will still end up accepted. Calvin did not agree. He knew that some people fell away for real. He thought that those people weren’t chosen by God, since God would make sure that his people persevered.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes but a little clarification. No one goes to heaven but the new Kingdom comes down to us from Heaven. That Kingdom will be led by the Kingdom/governance of God where His will will be done in earth as it is in Heaven, so yes Jesus is the way, not only as our Lord but as we live under the will of God, which is to care for each other as we would be cared for. To enter is to reject the world of man.

To get in the Kingdom of God, must come thru Lord Jesus, as he is the way, the truth, and is God Himself!