A Deeper Walk or Judgmental?

[FireDragon76]

I would suggest that Christian growth always involves attachment to our own desires diminishing as we become more conscious of our own sinfulness and more aware of the needs of our neighbors. Including our desire for purity and holiness, which due to our fallen condition, is not uncomplicated or in itself pure. The Christian ethic should be to literally risk hell for our neighbor. Don't bury your talent, and make friends with ill-gotten mammon while you can (Luke 16).

In light of this, Christians should not generally be running away from human relationships. Very often our vocation, our calling by God, is bound up with the lives of other people, because God cares about and is involved with every human life.

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

(J.C. Ryle, "The Importance of Dogma" 1900)

Eighteen centuries ago the apostle Paul forewarned us, "The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear!" 2 Timothy 4:3

The natural man hates the Gospel and all its distinctive doctrines — and delights in any vain excuse for refusing it.

The plain truth is, that the root of the whole evil lies in the fallen nature of man, and his deeply-seated unbelief in God's infallible Word. I suspect we have no idea how little saving faith there is on earth, and how few people entirely believe Bible truths.

One man is proud — he dislikes the distinctive doctrines of Christianity, because they leave him no room to boast.

Another is lazy and indolent — he dislikes distinctive doctrine, because it summons him to troublesome thought, and self-inquiry, and mental self-exertion.

Another is grossly ignorant — he imagines that all distinctive doctrine is a mere matter of words and names, and that it does not matter a jot what we believe.

Another is thoroughly worldly — he shrinks from distinctive doctrine, because it condemns his darling world.

But in one form or another, I am satisfied that "original sin" is the cause of all the mischief. And the whole result is, that vast numbers of men greedily swallow down the seemingly new idea that doctrine is of no great importance. It supplies a convenient excuse for their sins.

The consequences of this widespread dislike to doctrine are very serious in the present day. Whether we like to allow it or not, it is an epidemic which is doing great harm. It creates, fosters, and keeps up an immense amount of instability in religion. It produces what I must venture to call, if I may coin the phrase, ajellyfish Christianity in the churches — that is, a Christianity without bone, or muscle, or power.

A jellyfish, as everyone knows who has been much by the sea-side, is a pretty and graceful object when it floats in the sea, contracting and expanding like a little, delicate, transparent umbrella. Yet the same jellyfish, when cast on the shore — is a mere helpless lump, without capacity for movement, self-defense, or self-preservation.

Alas! It is a vivid type of much of the religion of this day, of which the leading principle is, "No dogma, no distinct tenets, no positive doctrine."

We have hundreds of jellyfishclergymen, who seem not to have a single bone in their body of divinity. They have no definite opinions — they belong to no school or party. They are so afraid of "extreme views" — that they have no views at all.

We have thousands of jellyfishsermons preached every year — sermons without an edge or a point. They are as smooth as billiard balls — awakening no sinner, and edifying no saint.

We have legions of jellyfish young men annually turned out from our seminaries, armed with a few scraps of second-hand philosophy, who think it a mark of cleverness and intellect to have no decided opinions about anything in religion, and to be utterly unable to make up their minds as to what Christian truth is. Their proud hearts are not satisfied with truths which satisfied the godly of former years. Their only creed is a kind of "Anythingism." They believe everything — and are sure and positive about nothing!

And last, and worst of all, we have myriads of jellyfish worshipers — respectable church-going people, who have no distinct and definite views about any point in theology. They cannot discern things that differ, any more than color-blind people can distinguish colors! They think that . . .
everybody is right — and nobody is wrong,
everything is true — and nothing is false,
all sermons are good — and none are bad,
every minister is sound — and none are unsound.
They are "tossed to and fro, like children, by every wind of doctrine!" They are often carried away by any new excitement and sensational movement. They are ever ready for new things, because they have no firm grasp on the old Scripture truths.

This was FANTASTIC and exactly the way I feel! Incredibly and eloquently written I thank you so much for stating all these truths. I have studied Matthew Henry through the years as a companion to my bible and many more. I search desperately for pastors that speak the truth of God's word and feel as the years progress they are indeed "less and less". I have loved and appreciated all the incredible responses received from everyone here - but, yours is fantastic and I thank you so much for making me feel "normal" in my questioning of these very same things you have stated here. God Bless you friend.

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

if and when you read outside of the bible...read Spurgeon, read the Puritans who will take you right back into the scripture...
Charles Bridges on Proverbs 13:20


<< < Chapter 13: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 > >>
20 ¶ He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed. {destroyed: Heb. broken}
Every one desires to engrave his own image upon his companions. We naturally therefore take our mold from their society. It is not left to us to determine, whether there shall be any influence; only, what that influence shall be. Walking with the wise — under their instruction, encouragement and example — we shall be wise. Our principles and habits will be fixed, our interest excited, and the resolution formed — “We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.” (Zechariah 8:23.) See here the blessing of living in a godly family, hearkening daily to “the wise man’s learning” (Chapter 16:23. 1 Kings 10:8), or in membership with a Church, where each imparts from his store for the increase and edifying of the body. (Ephesians 4:15, 16.) MarkPsalm 119:63.) The world may allure, the ungodly may mock, the evil heart may consent to their voice. But seek you strength from God, and resolve to walk with the wise — “as the LORD liveth, and as my soul liveth, I will not leave thee.” (2 Kings 2:4.) Walk with those, whose acquaintance (2 Chronicles 24.) And how often does the scaffold warn us of the “corruption from evil communications!” (1 Corinthians 15:33. Psalm 1. 18-21; 106:28, 35.) Many a promising professor has been brought step by step to destruction. The horror of sin, the instinctive recoil from it, gradually abates. The fear of God — that cover from sin (Genesis 39:9. Nehemiah 5:15) — is weakened. The hold on the great hopes of the gospel is relaxed. Other objects gain the ascendancy from this disastrous commerce, and the ruin is complete. And when — we might ask — have the godly companied with fools, without injury to their profession, and hazard to their souls? (2 Chronicles 18:3; 19:2.) If we can live in a worldly element, without feeling out of our own element; if we can breathe a tainted atmosphere, without sensibility of infection; if we can familiarize ourselves with the absence of religion in the ordinary intercourse of life, is there no ground of alarm, lest unsubdued worldliness should be regaining dominion?
The first warning to sinners just plucked out of the fire, was — “Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (Acts 2:40.) And the rule will be to the end — “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” (Ephesians 5:11. 2 Corinthians 6:14-16.) Connection we must often have with them. (1 Corinthians 5:10.) But let our delight be with the saints of God. (Psalm 16:3.) God may soon decide for an halting professor. His patience may be exhausted. His justice may take its course; and those, who are now his companions in folly, will be his tormentors in hopeless misery.

I LOVE this-- thank you SO MUCH!

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

I would suggest that Christian growth always involves attachment to our own desires diminishing as we become more conscious of our own sinfulness and more aware of the needs of our neighbors. Including our desire for purity and holiness, which due to our fallen condition, is not uncomplicated or in itself pure. The Christian ethic should be to literally risk hell for our neighbor. Don't bury your talent, and make friends with ill-gotten mammon while you can (Luke 16).

In light of this, Christians should not generally be running away from human relationships. Very often our vocation, our calling by God, is bound up with the lives of other people, because God cares about and is involved with every human life.

Wise words-- thank you so much!

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

The only right "truth" to speak to others who are lost is the good news -- the gospel -- the words of Christ Jesus.

We are definitely not to single out some sin of their's to preach against. That's not the Good News, not the gospel that could save them.

You love them in spite of how they are imperfect. You aren't obligated at all to approve or seem to approve of any wrongdoing, such as "let's get drunk" or such. For that one, I'd just smile and shake my head, and love them more.

Love.

That's the right action on how to relate to them.

You are not obligated to spend excessive time with them, but your are totally obligated to love, and show that love to them. For me, a key thing is to really appreciate them as they are, and that's crucial for me to how I love someone, the particular way that fits my personality, see, and it's not the only way, but for me it's a way I'm obligated to do, since it's how I love well. Someone else may love in some other ways really well, and those other ways are the ways they are obligated.

So....I told my non believer friends the outright jaw dropping miracle that happened to me, even though it was vulnerable to do so, but it helped a lot that they already knew and loved me too. I took the risk that now they would think I'd lost it, became.... ....what's the right word.... (each situation is unique and different) ... ...for me with those close old friends, the particular risk for us was that they'd think I'd fooled myself, and fallen back into some easy belief of childhood, as if becoming more credulous and naive. Or there was some risk of that. But, see, He is alive!! As we grow stronger in Him, we fear less and less how we lose the world. I did testify, and at that time, while I was just coming into faith, it sounded like this: "Things don't work they way we thought they did." I told them the prayer I made: "Help!", and the impossible seeming result, or the 1 in a 500 or 1000 result. One thought I was just lucky, and later I was able to tell him another, 2nd, miracle, and that explanation became harder for him to maintain (especially since the odds were equally or even more slim, more like 1 in a 1000 or 2000). By the time I was moving to a different city, he knew with total certainty I was saying God is real.

Real.

And it's a 100% certainty.

He didn't like that, because he grew up free and wild and went to a catholic school where they were too strict likely, and that version of God wasn't favorable in his view.

Old prejudices die hard.

But I continued to testify to him, over the years, and as he lay dying after an accident, and could not speak, I whispered in his ear that if he would believe, he could turn to Jesus, and be forgiven!

Don't give up, but ..do...not...be...impatient...with...them!

I thank you for sharing a wonderful story...I will pray and think on what you have said. THANK YOU!

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

The advice of your friends suggesting that you be less judgmental and emulate Jesus accepting all kinds of people is worth heeding. Pharisaism is always a hazard of a religious life.

When people say they are struggling, but yet you have a desire to be around "real Christians", that is indeed judgmentalism. A nonjudgmental person would simply give the benefit of the doubt in those circumstances. That doesn't mean you have to participate in activities that are objectionable, but it does mean that criticizing people is bound to alienate them. If your criticism creates a stumbling block to the Gospel, that is a serious offense and should not be treated lightly.

Agreed. Thank you for your advice. As mentioned in a few other posts I have replied too- the beginning of the thread was completely cut off which included notes about how many of the "older friends" have caused me great hurt, pain and otherwise including deceit, lying etc. etc. through the years and while I have worked diligently to forgive them it feels as if something now is "broken" and I earnestly felt through my healing the last two years ( that part also got cut off in the thread ) that the Lord was leading me to eliminate many of these friendships as they were toxic in my life and more to the point had become idolatrous ( severely warned on that part) and I had developed many deep strongholds from them- that took years to break free from. That being said, is part of why I struggle with "accepting" and becoming "complacent" with that, I earnestly felt I was being led away from-- hope that makes sense. I feel as if I am answering my own questions at times when I am writing these responses and you all are giving me much to think about. Thank you so much for your perspective and your honesty!

 

[Halbhh]

(J.C. Ryle, "The Importance of Dogma" 1900)

Eighteen centuries ago the apostle Paul forewarned us, "The time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear!" 2 Timothy 4:3

The natural man hates the Gospel and all its distinctive doctrines — and delights in any vain excuse for refusing it.

The plain truth is, that the root of the whole evil lies in the fallen nature of man, and his deeply-seated unbelief in God's infallible Word. I suspect we have no idea how little saving faith there is on earth, and how few people entirely believe Bible truths.

One man is proud — he dislikes the distinctive doctrines of Christianity, because they leave him no room to boast.

Another is lazy and indolent — he dislikes distinctive doctrine, because it summons him to troublesome thought, and self-inquiry, and mental self-exertion.

Another is grossly ignorant — he imagines that all distinctive doctrine is a mere matter of words and names, and that it does not matter a jot what we believe.

Another is thoroughly worldly — he shrinks from distinctive doctrine, because it condemns his darling world.

But in one form or another, I am satisfied that "original sin" is the cause of all the mischief. And the whole result is, that vast numbers of men greedily swallow down the seemingly new idea that doctrine is of no great importance. It supplies a convenient excuse for their sins.

The consequences of this widespread dislike to doctrine are very serious in the present day. Whether we like to allow it or not, it is an epidemic which is doing great harm. It creates, fosters, and keeps up an immense amount of instability in religion. It produces what I must venture to call, if I may coin the phrase, ajellyfish Christianity in the churches — that is, a Christianity without bone, or muscle, or power.

A jellyfish, as everyone knows who has been much by the sea-side, is a pretty and graceful object when it floats in the sea, contracting and expanding like a little, delicate, transparent umbrella. Yet the same jellyfish, when cast on the shore — is a mere helpless lump, without capacity for movement, self-defense, or self-preservation.

Alas! It is a vivid type of much of the religion of this day, of which the leading principle is, "No dogma, no distinct tenets, no positive doctrine."

We have hundreds of jellyfishclergymen, who seem not to have a single bone in their body of divinity. They have no definite opinions — they belong to no school or party. They are so afraid of "extreme views" — that they have no views at all.

We have thousands of jellyfishsermons preached every year — sermons without an edge or a point. They are as smooth as billiard balls — awakening no sinner, and edifying no saint.

We have legions of jellyfish young men annually turned out from our seminaries, armed with a few scraps of second-hand philosophy, who think it a mark of cleverness and intellect to have no decided opinions about anything in religion, and to be utterly unable to make up their minds as to what Christian truth is. Their proud hearts are not satisfied with truths which satisfied the godly of former years. Their only creed is a kind of "Anythingism." They believe everything — and are sure and positive about nothing!

And last, and worst of all, we have myriads of jellyfish worshipers — respectable church-going people, who have no distinct and definite views about any point in theology. They cannot discern things that differ, any more than color-blind people can distinguish colors! They think that . . .
everybody is right — and nobody is wrong,
everything is true — and nothing is false,
all sermons are good — and none are bad,
every minister is sound — and none are unsound.
They are "tossed to and fro, like children, by every wind of doctrine!" They are often carried away by any new excitement and sensational movement. They are ever ready for new things, because they have no firm grasp on the old Scripture truths.

It's Christ who saves us, not our level of understanding. Not our level of knowledge.

It's as He said -- whether we believe in Him, fully (which faith leads to changes, actions, if real/living).

Here's the "edge" I see missing in modern sermons -- the very words of Christ in more complete fullness. (for example Matthew 7:21-27, in total -- plenty of "edge" there)

The One Whom we are supposed to be following.

It's Him we are to follow, not men, nor men's doctrinal distinctions -- they might get some right, some wrong -- but Christ Jesus is always right, never wrong.

So, that means His Words are the ones we most need -- and which so many wrongly think they have enough of -- and far less would we need a list of doctrines (except if the doctrines are directly conveying of what He said, in a word-for-word way).

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

It's Christ who saves us, not our level of understanding. Not our level of knowledge.

It's as He said -- whether we believe in Him, fully (which faith leads to changes, actions, if real/living).

Here's the "edge" I see missing in modern sermons -- the very words of Christ in more complete fullness. (for example Matthew 7:21-27, in total -- plenty of "edge" there)

The One Whom we are supposed to be following.

It's Him we are to follow, not men, nor men's doctrinal distinctions -- they might get some right, some wrong -- but Christ Jesus is always right, never wrong.

So, that means His Words are the ones we most need -- and which so many wrongly think they have enough of -- and far less would we need a list of doctrines (except if the doctrines are directly conveying of what He said, in a word-for-word way).

Agreed! Studying more and more each day is what my desire has become. But, I do love to read the biblical scholars of old ( commentaries etc.) as they have such a different perspective and/or insight on the word; they respected it in beautiful ways. I love my "own" revelation for certain but, I love to read things as you sent above and I thank you so much!

 

[Foxfyre]

My biggest quandary is this: How does one read the word, learn the word and see clearly the instructions and desires of the Lord for our life and then actively pursue the continual growth in "getting there" while still being surrounded by others who are either not making any progress, not desiring any progression, not bearing any fruit and/or simply do not believe in their "inner circle" of friends? How does one continue to grow in their faith while everyone else around them seems to stay the same? It seems we have "nothing" to talk about because they don't want to grow- or they don't "get" what I am saying as I share revelation's I may have received that day from reading or otherwise- and it leaves me feeling "empty" as if there is no one to talk too and subsequently I have become very "isolated" which as mentioned is very difficult for someone who is so outgoing such as myself.

I am in no way saying I am any better than anyone ( please don't misunderstand) but, I am struggling as this group of friends I have had for years continues to dwindle- and in earnest my only desire is for "more" -- I want more of God, a deeper walk, a more serious walk and one that includes other's who "get that"?

But, my friends say I just need to "love them" the way they are- I need to not be so judgemental, I need to accept it if they drink, party, curse, sleep with people, live with people without being married ( while Christians ) because they say they are learning just like everyone else- but, those patterns never really change so are they really learning? Even my more devout Christian friends are saying I need to just "accept" others more and stop being judgemental, they quote scriptures about Jesus befriending tax collectors, prostitutes and the like as a means to get me to see that I need to just "accept" everything and not let it affect me. And then there are those of course who don't believe in God at all.

They say these things to me ( above ) all the while telling me I am the "only" person in their life that is that "God" person for them-- they love that I listen to them, ( but, they don't want to listen to me) they love that I inspire them, edifying them etc. and that's wonderful that I can help them-I am grateful and maybe I am "missing it" isn't that the point after all- to help others? But, still, I struggle.

I find myself thinking and feeling that I want to be around people who are striving towards "the mark" in their life as I am- those that actually want to grow in their relationship with the Lord that don't want to stay complacent and "lukewarm" if you will - and finally I find myself wondering why that desire within me is so wrong and more importantly why I have to "lose everyone" in order to achieve it?

Okay, that's a whole lot of "questioning" I do realize- but, has anyone experienced this? It saddens my heart as I feel like everything that I have known is being stripped away and while there is a deep desire for me to keep going and keep moving forward trusting God - because we have come so far- I do find myself stepping back from time to time trying to "accept" or "force" myself to become complacent with what everyone is "asking" me to do while attempting to live out my own life but, I always feel like there is "more" for me and if I keep in this same holding pattern I won't ever find out what it is?

Thanks for listening new friends and any wise words of experience in this area would be appreciated- thanks!

Edit: It appears the entire top portion of this thread disappeared- sorry ( I'm new ) and it appears I posted this thread in two different forums- sorry again!

I doubt many people have ever repented of sin, i.e. turned away from their sin, by being called a sinner. I doubt many have changed their lives by being told they are going to hell.

I do believe many have come to know the Lord when we allow God's love to shine through us, and allow the Lord to use us to love them.

I don't know you are your specific circumstances but my uninformed counsel is to not try to change your friends but find your own self respect and happiness in the Lord and quietly live as you know He would want. That will shine through you at least to some. Our job is not to bring people to repentance but to be a good witness for Christ by word, deed, and how we conduct ourselves in a way that makes Christianity attractive.

Meanwhile, seek out a good Bible study and discussion group to reinforce your own Christian growth. Your true friends will gradually modify their behavior at least when they are around you, and that might just become comfortable for them. Others will fall away but the Bible teaches us that is the risk we take when we choose God.

 

[John Bowen]

Thank you SO MUCH this is how I feel and at the same time what I struggle with--just really stinks sometimes - but, I want more of what he wants than what I want....it's just not easy sometimes walking that out- but, how grateful I am that I even have that blessed opportunity when there are so many in the world who do not...thank you!

Well you came to the right place a lot of like minded people here. So keep posting your truth so I can learn something new from your walk with Christ.

 

[Sam91]

What a difficult post to answer. I think only God can give you your answer in this. Not us.

Proverbs 3:5-6

Do not lean on our wisdom in this or your own understanding. Remember we are blind to a lot of our own sins. While when walking closer and more obedient to the Lord I felt like this a little. But what I learned looking back is that I grew complacent and looking at the lives of your friends is taking your eyes off Him. It can be setting yourself up as judge when you might still have a speck in your eye.

Are you resting on your righteousness a little by the fact that you are obedient? It is frustrating to see your friends sinning but I know that it is compassion I feel when I am loving them properly and the urge to pray for them. Also, when I feel frustrated, instead of compassion, I need to pray because my outlook is getting wrong. I am relying on my own works again. I have the seed of pride again and need to pray for my heart and then the view of the world changes again maybe that day, or a few days later, I have eyes to see again.

Maybe you need to find a couple of mature sisters who are also striving to be closer to the Lord. Maybe you need to find another way of serving. Again the Lord can lead you here. Remember, no matter how much you want a likeminded friend we all are not perfect and we all struggle occasionally in our walks. Therefore if you do find more 'seemingly' righteous people remember that they are only human. They will err and that you'll be disappointed if you put your faith in their faith, rather in the Father. That is why we are reminded to keep speaking the Gospel to each other and talk to one another in psalms. Iron sharpens iron. I think if you were to do this more, and in praise and love for the Lord and not in response to your friends sin, your friends will make any decisions for you. The Spirit might testify to their hearts and they'd need to repent and grow or stop talking to you so much because they might not be able to bare the light. (Which is a wake up call they would be choosing to ignore. Persevere in prayer in that case and ask for wisdom, the Lord will order your steps, with and without your knowledge if your eyes are fixed on Him and obediently living and loving. It is only when I keep a prayer journal do I realise the extent of it).

A lot of bible verses also flooded into my mind while reading. Do not call what is good evil and evil for good etc.

While waiting on wisdom maybe you could continue serving your friends showing them the love of Christ. I think you might be in danger (from seeing the attraction of other things posted about puritanism) of developing religioys pride soon. Which can be the beginning of a journey and a half.

I don't know what to suggest but pray to not get affected by tge folly of your friends, nor your own different folly. (We all have it. None is wise, but He.) Feels rather wierd typing this while my own valley experience, only take it to the Lord in prayer. Always open to see your own needs revealed in what sins you pick up in others. So many times I have advice and bible verses for someone else, the realise that the advice is also for me, or that God is teaching me something about myself too.

God bless you sister.

(Edit: I am reminded of Job and his friends )

 

[aiki]

I find myself thinking and feeling that I want to be around people who are striving towards "the mark" in their life as I am- those that actually want to grow in their relationship with the Lord that don't want to stay complacent and "lukewarm" if you will - and finally I find myself wondering why that desire within me is so wrong and more importantly why I have to "lose everyone" in order to achieve it?

Psalms 101:3-4
3 I will set nothing wicked before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; It shall not cling to me.
4 A perverse heart shall depart from me; I will not know wickedness.

Ephesians 5:1-12
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.
2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people."
17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty."

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

Matthew 16:24-26
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 10:34-36
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'

 

[Hazelelponi]

My biggest quandary is this: How does one read the word, learn the word and see clearly the instructions and desires of the Lord for our life and then actively pursue the continual growth in "getting there" while still being surrounded by others who are either not making any progress, not desiring any progression, not bearing any fruit and/or simply do not believe in their "inner circle" of friends? How does one continue to grow in their faith while everyone else around them seems to stay the same? It seems we have "nothing" to talk about because they don't want to grow- or they don't "get" what I am saying as I share revelation's I may have received that day from reading or otherwise- and it leaves me feeling "empty" as if there is no one to talk too and subsequently I have become very "isolated" which as mentioned is very difficult for someone who is so outgoing such as myself.

I am in no way saying I am any better than anyone ( please don't misunderstand) but, I am struggling as this group of friends I have had for years continues to dwindle- and in earnest my only desire is for "more" -- I want more of God, a deeper walk, a more serious walk and one that includes other's who "get that"?

But, my friends say I just need to "love them" the way they are- I need to not be so judgemental, I need to accept it if they drink, party, curse, sleep with people, live with people without being married ( while Christians ) because they say they are learning just like everyone else- but, those patterns never really change so are they really learning? Even my more devout Christian friends are saying I need to just "accept" others more and stop being judgemental, they quote scriptures about Jesus befriending tax collectors, prostitutes and the like as a means to get me to see that I need to just "accept" everything and not let it affect me. And then there are those of course who don't believe in God at all.

They say these things to me ( above ) all the while telling me I am the "only" person in their life that is that "God" person for them-- they love that I listen to them, ( but, they don't want to listen to me) they love that I inspire them, edifying them etc. and that's wonderful that I can help them-I am grateful and maybe I am "missing it" isn't that the point after all- to help others? But, still, I struggle.

I find myself thinking and feeling that I want to be around people who are striving towards "the mark" in their life as I am- those that actually want to grow in their relationship with the Lord that don't want to stay complacent and "lukewarm" if you will - and finally I find myself wondering why that desire within me is so wrong and more importantly why I have to "lose everyone" in order to achieve it?

Okay, that's a whole lot of "questioning" I do realize- but, has anyone experienced this? It saddens my heart as I feel like everything that I have known is being stripped away and while there is a deep desire for me to keep going and keep moving forward trusting God - because we have come so far- I do find myself stepping back from time to time trying to "accept" or "force" myself to become complacent with what everyone is "asking" me to do while attempting to live out my own life but, I always feel like there is "more" for me and if I keep in this same holding pattern I won't ever find out what it is?

Thanks for listening new friends and any wise words of experience in this area would be appreciated- thanks!

Edit: It appears the entire top portion of this thread disappeared- sorry ( I'm new ) and it appears I posted this thread in two different forums- sorry again!

Jesus said:

"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not pick up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me " Matthew 10:37-38

It's not judgmental to have a different view of right and wrong as other people, that is a life choice and an understanding of God.

Judgment is the evaluation of evidence to make a decision or come to a conclusion.

Generally speaking we must make judgements. Is '_____' a sin? We must always fill in that blank so we know what to do or to avoid in our own lives.

The kind of judgement we can't make are superficial or hypocritical judgements - a common problem of the Pharisees.

“Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly” John 7:24

Jesus’ command not to judge others in Matthew 7:1 is preceded by comparisons to hypocrites Matthew 6:2, 5, 16 and followed by a warning against hypocrisy Matthew 7:3-5.


We have to be careful because When we point out the sin of others while we ourselves commit the same sin, we condemn ourselves Romans 2:1. Which is why we have to remove our own motes prior to pointing out the sins of our brothers and sisters in Christ..

We can't be self righteous, or harsh, or proud, but we can and must make certain judgements.

Ultimately, following 1 Corinthians 5:11:

"But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people."

Will lead to potentially leaving aside a brother or sister, mother or father and following Jesus. But always remember, there are others in your exact position. They are the church. Many have given up a friend or two, even family along the way.

 

[JLB777]

My biggest quandary is this: How does one read the word, learn the word and see clearly the instructions and desires of the Lord for our life and then actively pursue the continual growth in "getting there" while still being surrounded by others who are either not making any progress, not desiring any progression, not bearing any fruit and/or simply do not believe in their "inner circle" of friends? How does one continue to grow in their faith while everyone else around them seems to stay the same? It seems we have "nothing" to talk about because they don't want to grow- or they don't "get" what I am saying as I share revelation's I may have received that day from reading or otherwise- and it leaves me feeling "empty" as if there is no one to talk too and subsequently I have become very "isolated" which as mentioned is very difficult for someone who is so outgoing such as myself.

I am in no way saying I am any better than anyone ( please don't misunderstand) but, I am struggling as this group of friends I have had for years continues to dwindle- and in earnest my only desire is for "more" -- I want more of God, a deeper walk, a more serious walk and one that includes other's who "get that"?

But, my friends say I just need to "love them" the way they are- I need to not be so judgemental, I need to accept it if they drink, party, curse, sleep with people, live with people without being married ( while Christians ) because they say they are learning just like everyone else- but, those patterns never really change so are they really learning? Even my more devout Christian friends are saying I need to just "accept" others more and stop being judgemental, they quote scriptures about Jesus befriending tax collectors, prostitutes and the like as a means to get me to see that I need to just "accept" everything and not let it affect me. And then there are those of course who don't believe in God at all.

They say these things to me ( above ) all the while telling me I am the "only" person in their life that is that "God" person for them-- they love that I listen to them, ( but, they don't want to listen to me) they love that I inspire them, edifying them etc. and that's wonderful that I can help them-I am grateful and maybe I am "missing it" isn't that the point after all- to help others? But, still, I struggle.

I find myself thinking and feeling that I want to be around people who are striving towards "the mark" in their life as I am- those that actually want to grow in their relationship with the Lord that don't want to stay complacent and "lukewarm" if you will - and finally I find myself wondering why that desire within me is so wrong and more importantly why I have to "lose everyone" in order to achieve it?

Okay, that's a whole lot of "questioning" I do realize- but, has anyone experienced this? It saddens my heart as I feel like everything that I have known is being stripped away and while there is a deep desire for me to keep going and keep moving forward trusting God - because we have come so far- I do find myself stepping back from time to time trying to "accept" or "force" myself to become complacent with what everyone is "asking" me to do while attempting to live out my own life but, I always feel like there is "more" for me and if I keep in this same holding pattern I won't ever find out what it is?

Thanks for listening new friends and any wise words of experience in this area would be appreciated- thanks!

Edit: It appears the entire top portion of this thread disappeared- sorry ( I'm new ) and it appears I posted this thread in two different forums- sorry again!

Please study the lives of those who God used to change their nation, city or family.


You will find a common thread.


Consecration: Separated unto God.


Whether Jeremiah or John the Baptist, you will find these people had a strong personal relationship with the Lord.


Most people will not understand this, and will only be used to distract you from a strong relationship with the Lord.


I would start with making a prayer closet in your home.


Then dedicate it as a holy place where you meet with the Lord every day, to worship Him, pray and read the word.


The more you consecrate yourself unto Him, to be separated, set apart to seek Him, the clearer you will begin to hear His Voice within you.

He will lead you and guide you by His Spirit, into all truth.



However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
John 16:13




JLB

 

[david.d]

Just seek God and God will probably replace them with people walking with you. Or they may begin walking. It may sound harsh, but to walk you have to leave what is behind you there unless it comes with you.

 

[marineimaging]

My biggest quandary is this: How does one read the word, learn the word and see clearly the instructions and desires of the Lord for our life and then actively pursue the continual growth in "getting there" while still being surrounded by others who are either not making any progress, not desiring any progression, not bearing any fruit and/or simply do not believe in their "inner circle" of friends? How does one continue to grow in their faith while everyone else around them seems to stay the same? It seems we have "nothing" to talk about because they don't want to grow- or they don't "get" what I am saying as I share revelation's I may have received that day from reading or otherwise- and it leaves me feeling "empty" as if there is no one to talk too and subsequently I have become very "isolated" which as mentioned is very difficult for someone who is so outgoing such as myself.

I am in no way saying I am any better than anyone ( please don't misunderstand) but, I am struggling as this group of friends I have had for years continues to dwindle- and in earnest my only desire is for "more" -- I want more of God, a deeper walk, a more serious walk and one that includes other's who "get that"?

But, my friends say I just need to "love them" the way they are- I need to not be so judgemental, I need to accept it if they drink, party, curse, sleep with people, live with people without being married ( while Christians ) because they say they are learning just like everyone else- but, those patterns never really change so are they really learning? Even my more devout Christian friends are saying I need to just "accept" others more and stop being judgemental, they quote scriptures about Jesus befriending tax collectors, prostitutes and the like as a means to get me to see that I need to just "accept" everything and not let it affect me. And then there are those of course who don't believe in God at all.

They say these things to me ( above ) all the while telling me I am the "only" person in their life that is that "God" person for them-- they love that I listen to them, ( but, they don't want to listen to me) they love that I inspire them, edifying them etc. and that's wonderful that I can help them-I am grateful and maybe I am "missing it" isn't that the point after all- to help others? But, still, I struggle.

I find myself thinking and feeling that I want to be around people who are striving towards "the mark" in their life as I am- those that actually want to grow in their relationship with the Lord that don't want to stay complacent and "lukewarm" if you will - and finally I find myself wondering why that desire within me is so wrong and more importantly why I have to "lose everyone" in order to achieve it?

Okay, that's a whole lot of "questioning" I do realize- but, has anyone experienced this? It saddens my heart as I feel like everything that I have known is being stripped away and while there is a deep desire for me to keep going and keep moving forward trusting God - because we have come so far- I do find myself stepping back from time to time trying to "accept" or "force" myself to become complacent with what everyone is "asking" me to do while attempting to live out my own life but, I always feel like there is "more" for me and if I keep in this same holding pattern I won't ever find out what it is?

Thanks for listening new friends and any wise words of experience in this area would be appreciated- thanks!

Edit: It appears the entire top portion of this thread disappeared- sorry ( I'm new ) and it appears I posted this thread in two different forums- sorry again!

Your answer is in scripture and I believe you already know the answer. But, can you do it without grieving? First, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit" doesn't leave much room for you if you feel compelled to split with your friends. "You know there are people still having sex outside of marriage, still going to clubs, they still have a continuous willful potty mouth. These folks are just Sunday Christians and they don’t care about Christ beyond what the church can give them. "Hell will be worse for these people than atheists."

So, are all Christians perfect? No. Can we backslide? Yes. But then the darkness will flee when they hear His voice and they will return as the prodigal son and be welcomed as he was. That said, your friends have a chance if they care. And I bet you will be there if they call and ask for your help. Right?

But they are also holding you back from your own spiritual growth if they are demanding things that are not consistent with scripture and telling you to stand by them while they sin joyfully is not in scripture. Not one little bitty bit. NO, they are flinging black paint every where while you are trying to wash your cloak white with the spirit of Jesus Christ who died for us all. They are stomping on the body and blood of Jesus and then telling you to be forgiving and patient. Sounds to me like the great deceiver is in them and not the Holy Spirit because if they cared, they would be asking for your assistance, not your approval..., which is what they are demanding of you. Literally, they are demanding that you be compliant with their sins or lose their friendship. Think about it.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

My biggest quandary is this: How does one read the word, learn the word and see clearly the instructions and desires of the Lord for our life and then actively pursue the continual growth in "getting there" while still being surrounded by others who are either not making any progress, not desiring any progression, not bearing any fruit and/or simply do not believe in their "inner circle" of friends? How does one continue to grow in their faith while everyone else around them seems to stay the same? It seems we have "nothing" to talk about because they don't want to grow- or they don't "get" what I am saying as I share revelation's I may
Edit: It appears the entire top portion of this thread disappeared- sorry ( I'm new ) and it appears I posted this thread in two different forums- sorry again!

This is hard, but please don't forget how awesome it is that the Holy Spirit is drawing you in and you have solid assurance/evidence of your salvation based on your fruits and the book of 1 John!

I haven't read what others suggested, but I would say people come and go into our lives for seasons and reasons beyond our understanding. It is hard to let go of the friendships especially if there is a lot of history, but that is what I would do and have done myself.

You have been a powerful witness in their life, and now it's up to the Holy Spirit to work in them. It doesn't sound like they have ever repented and made Jesus Lord of their lives, so if anything maybe go back to the basics of the gospel with them and pray fervently for them. They can always be part of your outer circle (as Jesus had), but TRUST the Lord to bring new God-fearing radial Christ-following friends into your "inner circle" for your growth and transformation and HIS Glory!

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

What a difficult post to answer. I think only God can give you your answer in this. Not us.

Proverbs 3:5-6

Do not lean on our wisdom in this or your own understanding. Remember we are blind to a lot of our own sins. While when walking closer and more obedient to the Lord I felt like this a little. But what I learned looking back is that I grew complacent and looking at the lives of your friends is taking your eyes off Him. It can be setting yourself up as judge when you might still have a speck in your eye.

Are you resting on your righteousness a little by the fact that you are obedient? It is frustrating to see your friends sinning but I know that it is compassion I feel when I am loving them properly and the urge to pray for them. Also, when I feel frustrated, instead of compassion, I need to pray because my outlook is getting wrong. I am relying on my own works again. I have the seed of pride again and need to pray for my heart and then the view of the world changes again maybe that day, or a few days later, I have eyes to see again.

Maybe you need to find a couple of mature sisters who are also striving to be closer to the Lord. Maybe you need to find another way of serving. Again the Lord can lead you here. Remember, no matter how much you want a likeminded friend we all are not perfect and we all struggle occasionally in our walks. Therefore if you do find more 'seemingly' righteous people remember that they are only human. They will err and that you'll be disappointed if you put your faith in their faith, rather in the Father. That is why we are reminded to keep speaking the Gospel to each other and talk to one another in psalms. Iron sharpens iron. I think if you were to do this more, and in praise and love for the Lord and not in response to your friends sin, your friends will make any decisions for you. The Spirit might testify to their hearts and they'd need to repent and grow or stop talking to you so much because they might not be able to bare the light. (Which is a wake up call they would be choosing to ignore. Persevere in prayer in that case and ask for wisdom, the Lord will order your steps, with and without your knowledge if your eyes are fixed on Him and obediently living and loving. It is only when I keep a prayer journal do I realise the extent of it).

A lot of bible verses also flooded into my mind while reading. Do not call what is good evil and evil for good etc.

While waiting on wisdom maybe you could continue serving your friends showing them the love of Christ. I think you might be in danger (from seeing the attraction of other things posted about puritanism) of developing religioys pride soon. Which can be the beginning of a journey and a half.

I don't know what to suggest but pray to not get affected by tge folly of your friends, nor your own different folly. (We all have it. None is wise, but He.) Feels rather wierd typing this while my own valley experience, only take it to the Lord in prayer. Always open to see your own needs revealed in what sins you pick up in others. So many times I have advice and bible verses for someone else, the realise that the advice is also for me, or that God is teaching me something about myself too.

God bless you sister.

(Edit: I am reminded of Job and his friends )

Thank you for your advice!

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

This is hard, but please don't forget how awesome it is that the Holy Spirit is drawing you in and you have solid assurance/evidence of your salvation based on your fruits and the book of 1 John!

I haven't read what others suggested, but I would say people come and go into our lives for seasons and reasons beyond our understanding. It is hard to let go of the friendships especially if there is a lot of history, but that is what I would do and have done myself.

You have been a powerful witness in their life, and now it's up to the Holy Spirit to work in them. It doesn't sound like they have ever repented and made Jesus Lord of their lives, so if anything maybe go back to the basics of the gospel with them and pray fervently for them. They can always be part of your outer circle (as Jesus had), but TRUST the Lord to bring new God-fearing radial Christ-following friends into your "inner circle" for your growth and transformation and HIS Glory!

Thank you for your advice!

 

[BuckeyeBaby]

Your answer is in scripture and I believe you already know the answer. But, can you do it without grieving? First, "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit" doesn't leave much room for you if you feel compelled to split with your friends. "You know there are people still having sex outside of marriage, still going to clubs, they still have a continuous willful potty mouth. These folks are just Sunday Christians and they don’t care about Christ beyond what the church can give them. "Hell will be worse for these people than atheists."

So, are all Christians perfect? No. Can we backslide? Yes. But then the darkness will flee when they hear His voice and they will return as the prodigal son and be welcomed as he was. That said, your friends have a chance if they care. And I bet you will be there if they call and ask for your help. Right?

But they are also holding you back from your own spiritual growth if they are demanding things that are not consistent with scripture and telling you to stand by them while they sin joyfully is not in scripture. Not one little bitty bit. NO, they are flinging black paint every where while you are trying to wash your cloak white with the spirit of Jesus Christ who died for us all. They are stomping on the body and blood of Jesus and then telling you to be forgiving and patient. Sounds to me like the great deceiver is in them and not the Holy Spirit because if they cared, they would be asking for your assistance, not your approval..., which is what they are demanding of you. Literally, they are demanding that you be compliant with their sins or lose their friendship. Think about it.

Thank you for your advice- much to think and pray about here.