A confession of sorts.

[ShirChadash]

Charles,
Sending a hug your way. You are also in my prayers. I tried to write you a post earlier this morning, had a nice long one written up for you basically telling you that, beloved brother, you are not alone... and I lost power so *poof* went my post. Nonetheless, I just wanted to encourage you... go buy some beautiful Messianic praise and worship, buy a journal, take a walk along the river/beach, cry and intercede, let your heart rest and retreat a while. I have been where you are (though I realize it isn't exact, perhaps)... angry, almost desperately frustrated. Henaynei said it so wisely:

"We have come to the conclusion that it is NOT our job to "build bridges" to the church but rather to be prepared to teach and nurture those who come out of her seeking Truth."

Error is so pervasive; it seems that, the requisite fingers-in-the-ears are not the only thing in the way, but the enemy also truly blinds those who are in error, to keep them in it yk? So many people are deeply entrenched in the pagan system which, often, brings people to a saving knowledge of Jesus and then... teaches them a wagonload of lies and error to boot. You are right to know you need a respite from the front-lines for a time... when it gets hard to hate the system and love its adherants, when the line between them blurs, we need rest. Bless you, Charles. You are a blessing here.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Are you saying that you know the actual date? Personally, If I knew the actual date I would celebrate it then and still celebrate it on the other date as well. I do not see the problem with celebrating His birth and resurrection on any and every day if we chose.

And how could I possible miss Him if I am His? What does the date I celebrate have to do with it? Are you saying that I am only saved if I do all the celebrating on only the days that the Jews celebrate? What days do the Jews celebrate His birth and Resurrection? Or do they, and if not, why?

Yeshua was born on Tishri 15. (Jewish calendar) First day of Tabernacles, The feast that points to "God dwells with us". He was born, not in a stable, but in a Sukka, (Booth) the little structues that we build and eat in or live in for Tabernacles. The word,"Manger" is also used for "stall". So it was assumed to mean a cattle stall. However stall is also used for "booth." Think of a street market and a little cut out area, booth or stall where someone sells their goods. This is not the entire bulk of the evidence. There are two scriptural statements that verify the date.

When we celebrate the Lord's appointed feasts we take part in living prophecy and also provide testimony to the fact that Yeshua was the Messiah, an important testimony to other Jews who do not yet know this. We take part in the yearly picture stories given by God to point to Messiah. Christmas as it is celebrated does not do this. It fact it verifies the Jews justification of rejecting him. Christmas on Dec 25 is strictly a Pagan date, the birth of Mithra the Roman sun god, and it is celebrated pretty much as it was for Mithra.

CIF

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

But my question is still not answered. To me it does not matter what the date is. . .he was born to die and then was raised so that I might live. The one post gave the insinuation, at least that is how it appeared to me, that because I don't celebrate on the "right" date, then I am lost and going to hell. If my understanding is correct on that, then I want to know why my going to be with HIM, is based on my celebrating His birth on the right date. As far as Easter goes, I celebrate HIS resurrection, not the goddess of fertility.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yeshua was born on Tishri 15. (Jewish calendar)

Charles, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but what date is this in the Gentile world?

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Charles,
Sending a hug your way. You are also in my prayers. I tried to write you a post earlier this morning, had a nice long one written up for you basically telling you that, beloved brother, you are not alone... and I lost power so *poof* went my post. .

Thank you very much for your kind post and soothing words. I agree with Hey also, for about 2 years ago the Lord gave several of us who were sharing a home church that same message, that we were to prepare to teach and bind up a bunch of people from the church who the Lord was going to send to us. We feel the church was going to really take a hit and scatter the flock. Still waiting to se what happens.

Blessings to you and everyone,

Charles the crazy one

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

bind up a bunch of people from the church

what does this part of your statement mean?

 

[Charlesinflorida]

But my question is still not answered. To me it does not matter what the date is. . .he was born to die and then was raised so that I might live. The one post gave the insinuation, at least that is how it appeared to me, that because I don't celebrate on the "right" date, then I am lost and going to hell. If my understanding is correct on that, then I want to know why my going to be with HIM, is based on my celebrating His birth on the right date. As far as Easter goes, I celebrate HIS resurrection, not the goddess of fertility.

I will answer you second post first. The Jewish calendar is lunar so it shifts from one year to the next in relationship to the georgian calendar that we use. So you have to check every year to see what American date it is, but it ranges from mid Sept to Nov.

Now concerning the above. I am not sure if you read my last post to you. We seem to have posted about the same time. But the point is that the feast of Tabernacles is prophetic of Messiah just as Passover is. We are told by God to observe these things every year. In fact Tabernacles is the one feast that all the nations of the earth will be required to take part in during the Millennial Kingdom See Zech 14.

God does not want us taking part in Pagan traditions, or using Pagan things and adapting them to worship him. Remember that the children of Israel made a Golden calf to worship God, our God, but he does not want us worshipping Him with Pagan practices, so 5000 of them were slain and swallowed up by the earth. We need to observe the festivals that God gave us, because they are a blessing to us, to the Jews and to God. Yes, It blesses God when we obey him.

Dec 25th is only a church tradition based on a compromise with Roman authority under Constantine the Pagan. We are not obligated to observe that. God does not want us to. He wants us to obey him. And the first churh also kept all these feasts of God as shown in scripture.

CIF

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I will answer you second post first. The Jewish calendar is lunar so it shifts from one year to the next in relationship to the georgian calendar that we use. So you have to check every year to see what American date it is, but it ranges from mid Sept to Nov.

Now concerning the above. I am not sure if you read my last post to you. We seem to have posted about the same time. But the point is that the feast of Tabernacles is prophetic of Messiah just as Passover is. We are told by God to observe these things every year. In fact Tabernacles is the one feast that all the nations of the earth will be required to take part in during the Millennial Kingdom See Zech 14.

God does not want us taking part in Pagan traditions, or using Pagan things and adapting them to worship him. Remember that the children of Israel made a Golden calf to worship God, our God, but he does not want us worshipping Him with Pagan practices, so 5000 of them were slain and swallowed up by the earth. We need to observe the festivals that God gave us, because they are a blessing to us, to the Jews and to God. Yes, It blesses God when we obey him.

Dec 25th is only a church tradition based on a compromise with Roman authority under Constantine the Pagan. We are not obligated to observe that. God does not want us to. He wants us to obey him. And the first churh also kept all these feasts of God as shown in scripture.

CIF

So do you refuse what is offered to you from those who do celebrate. In other words, if a friend gives you a gift and it is for Christmas, do you refuse it? How do you react?

 

[Charlesinflorida]

what does this part of your statement mean?

The Lord was sending people to us that had been hurt and/or disillusioned with the church. They were seeing things happen that they just knew in their hearts wasn't right. Some when they confronted clergy were told, "Yes we know it is not biblical or it has Pagan roots, but it is Ok, because the church has been doing it this way for a long time." Others were kicked out of churches for questioning its doctrines, some just quit because of the contraditions of scripture and were without fellowship.

CIF

 

[Henaynei]

Are you saying that you know the actual date? Personally, If I knew the actual date I would celebrate it then and still celebrate it on the other date as well. I do not see the problem with celebrating His birth and resurrection on any and every day if we chose.

You are quite right, for scripture clearly says I am not to judge another for the day they choose, I was mearly responding to the question. In no way did I mean for it to appear judgemental and if it did so I ask your forgiveness....

And how could I possible miss Him if I am His? What does the date I celebrate have to do with it? Are you saying that I am only saved if I do all the celebrating on only the days that the Jews celebrate?

NO!! G-d forbid!!! What I am saying is that throughout scripture G-d has set His calendar, set His feasts and festivals as memory stones and prophetic markers -- and done things according to it. There are and will be many false pretenders and many WILL be deceived by things that "look right" or "feel right" or that leadership says is right. Only by meticulous use of G-d's measuring rod, His instructions and His calendar, will we be assured of not being deceived. Each and every one of us, saved and sinner, Jew and Gentile are at risk for it is possible "to deceive even the elect." "For in that day many will say 'L-rd, L-rd did we not [do this or that] in Your Name?,' and He will say.....'I never knew you.'" Therefore we each must be vigilant of our hearts and pride that *nothing* come between us and His light and truth.

What days do the Jews celebrate His birth and Resurrection? Or do they, and if not, why?

Messianic Jews will usually remember Yeshua's birth on the first day of Sukkot/Tabernacles, His sacrifice on Passover and His resurrection on HaBikkurim/First Fruits.
Non-Messianic Jews do not recognize Yeshua as Messiah and therefore do not remember Him on any of the feast or fast days.


Shalom,
Henaynei

 

[Charlesinflorida]

So do you refuse what is offered to you from those who do celebrate. In other words, if a friend gives you a gift and it is for Christmas, do you refuse it? How do you react?

When this has happened in the past, I accept their gift graciously as a gift of love. It hasn't happen for a while by the way because they know I am Messiainic. My neighbor, A Russian who spoke almost no english, slaughtered a pig. (He had three) and he brought me some of the meat. This I had to thank him and refuse. He seemed a little confused at first. Then when I finally said Kosher, He understood and apologized, we both laughted and there was no problem. I thanked him for the jesture. He accepted my reason for not accepting.


Let me put this whole thing this way. Some Christians say, "Why do I have to do all those Jewish things". My answer is this: They are not Jewish things. They are Gods things. He just gave them to the Jews first so that they could teach us.

In Matt 5 Yeshua says Any man who breaks the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be te least in te kingdom of heaven" Ect. We know and most churchmen agree that the disciples did remain Torah observant, (obeying the commandments) and that the should now as well. But they say Gentiles do not need to obey the law. But look at the great commission that was given to the disciples at the end of Matt. "Go ye into all the nations (Gentiles) and make disciples of all men (Again Gentiles) teaching THEM to DO all that I have commanded YOU to do." So Gentiles who are saved by the Messiah of Israel are also supposed to do the same things that the disciples did and which the Jews also still do. We are all one body of believers. And He didn't make the Jews become pagans. He brought us into His flock into the people of Israel, not them into the Gentile nations. "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep fold." This is the Gentiles. And he said he was going to bring them in. Not take the sheep out to the other sheep.

Do you see it?

Charles the shattered

 

[ShirChadash]

Let me put this whole thing this way. Some Christians say, "Why do I have to do all those Jewish things". My answer is this: They are not Jewish things. They are Gods things. He just gave them to the Jews first so that they could teach us.

In Matt 5 Yeshua says Any man who breaks the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be te least in te kingdom of heaven" Ect. We know and most churchmen agree that the disciples did remain Torah observant, (obeying the commandments) and that the should now as well. But they say Gentiles do not need to obey the law. But look at the great commission that was given to the disciples at the end of Matt. "Go ye into all the nations (Gentiles) and make disciples of all men (Again Gentiles) teaching THEM to DO all that I have commanded YOU to do." So Gentiles who are saved by the Messiah of Israel are also supposed to do the same things that the disciples did and which the Jews also still do. We are all one body of believers. And He didn't make the Jews become pagans. He brought us into His flock into the people of Israel, not them into the Gentile nations. "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep fold." This is the Gentiles. And he said he was going to bring them in. Not take the sheep out to the other sheep.

Amen! (again)

 

[Charlesinflorida]

All the feasts of God connect to Messiah and therefore also to the Church. Consider Pentecost (Shavuot). he church was waiting or the spirit. How? they were gathered together for this feast. The feast is for the renewing of your committment to Gods Torah. All the Jews meet and read the story of the giving of the law at Sinai. Why? Because it was on this day that the Torah was Given and God took Israel as a bride. The Torah is the marriage contract, the Ketchuba. When this happened, Israel became the bride of Messiah. The church becomes part of Israel and therefore part of the bride.

On Sinai, the mountain shook, there were flames, (torches) that flowed out over the people and every man heard the words of the lord in his lwn language. 5000 rebelled and were killed.

In the time of Messiah, again while renewing the coveant, the New covenant become enacted, and flames of fire came upon their heads, and men heard the word of the Lord each in his own language, and 5000 were saved.

Do you see the pattern. Now we have to step back, because at Sinai, it was not just jews, it was a mixed multitude from all nations, Egyptians, Ethiopians, Cannanites, all sorts of Gentiles, and they recived ad accepted this law also and became part of Israel. In the days of Yeshua there were more than Jews in that town, and the word of God went out again to the gentiles as well.

Shavuot (Pentecost) is for the church though few still do much to celebrate it. And all the other feasts of God are for the church as well. Because they are for Israel, and we are part of Israel, and those feasts point to our Messiah Yeshua.

CIF

 

[ShirChadash]

*shrug* I'm just going to start signing my posts with:


~Zemmy~
I agree with Charles, BTW.

 

[Charlesinflorida]

*shrug* I'm just going to start signing my posts with:


~Zemmy~
I agree with Charles, BTW.

Sorry I didn't mean to steam roll you Zem. Jump right in there would ya!

I get goin' and can't stop!

Crazy Charlie

 

[Henaynei]

Maybe Henynei can find a thead where we just went through all the scriptural proofs of his actual birthday. I think you would find it interesting.

Here is a whole thread where we discussed this
When was He born?

And a post in another thread where it was also discussed

​

Somebody looking for this?? ​

These provide proofs from the scriptures (OT & NT) as to the date of Messiah's birth....

​

The Truth about Christmas​

or​

On What Day Was Jesus Born?​

or​

Jesus' Real Birthday​

Enjoy ​

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Do your own research, come to your own conclusions.....​

Shalom,​

Henaynei​

​

​

​

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

When this has happened in the past, I accept their gift graciously as a gift of love. It hasn't happen for a while by the way because they know I am Messiainic. My neighbor, A Russian who spoke almost no english, slaughtered a pig. (He had three) and he brought me some of the meat. This I had to thank him and refuse. He seemed a little confused at first. Then when I finally said Kosher, He understood and apologized, we both laughted and there was no problem. I thanked him for the jesture. He accepted my reason for not accepting.


Let me put this whole thing this way. Some Christians say, "Why do I have to do all those Jewish things". My answer is this: They are not Jewish things. They are Gods things. He just gave them to the Jews first so that they could teach us.

In Matt 5 Yeshua says Any man who breaks the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be te least in te kingdom of heaven" Ect. We know and most churchmen agree that the disciples did remain Torah observant, (obeying the commandments) and that the should now as well. But they say Gentiles do not need to obey the law. But look at the great commission that was given to the disciples at the end of Matt. "Go ye into all the nations (Gentiles) and make disciples of all men (Again Gentiles) teaching THEM to DO all that I have commanded YOU to do." So Gentiles who are saved by the Messiah of Israel are also supposed to do the same things that the disciples did and which the Jews also still do. We are all one body of believers. And He didn't make the Jews become pagans. He brought us into His flock into the people of Israel, not them into the Gentile nations. "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep fold." This is the Gentiles. And he said he was going to bring them in. Not take the sheep out to the other sheep.

Do you see it?

Charles the shattered

Yes Charles, I see it. I have another request. . .would you please stop describing yourself in negative terms Also, what part of Florida are you in? I know you've told me before but I forget. I'm in Orlando.

 

[ShirChadash]

CHARLES! That's not what I meant at ALL! LOL. What I really meant is that everytime I read apost from you anymore, I completely completely agree with it, and I figure it's getting old for everyone to see me flapping my gums and saying "I Agree!" so... I thought I would make it easier and ust say -- "Hey, whatever Charles says, count me in, K?" "Let's just all get the point -- I agree with Charels"!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[Charlesinflorida]

Yes Charles, I see it. I have another request. . .would you please stop describing yourself in negative terms Also, what part of Florida are you in? I know you've told me before but I forget. I'm in Orlando.

We are in Interlachen, which is a sand dune between Gainsville and Palatka on HWY 20. It is nowhere. We are going to Orlando again this weekend to use up some Disney days we have. We moved here in Dec. and have been renovating an old Trailer which we are living in.

Charles the Mental Messianic.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Here is a whole thread where we discussed this
When was He born?

And a post in another thread where it was also discussed

​

Do your own research, come to your own conclusions.....​

Shalom,​

Henaynei​

​

​

​

Thank you Henaynei, I believe you are the person my friend Raphe has told me about