That is exactly what I would have written if I had made up a religion. "You'll only be able to see the truth if you believe first".
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That is exactly what I would have written if I had made up a religion. "You'll only be able to see the truth if you believe first".1 Corinthians 2:14 English Standard Version (ESV)
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Fallacious? In what way?
You are welcome to ignore the problems with the Bible if you like. But do you not think this approach is a bit like burying your head in the sand? Should the truth not be faced?A friend of mine studies theology from a mainline Protestant point of view and in Germany they "find" all kinds of flaws/ contradictions in the Bible… but I stayed with my standpoint.
I'm sure. The exact number of centuries isn'tTen centuries only you say? Many correct Bible versions have been around at that time, already, I thought?
I asked for prayers that have been answered. You said that you had had answered prayers. Please could I have a few of your best examples? I'm afraid toothache disappearing does not count at all.I recall having had a tooth problem that instantly went away when I prayed.
That's very sensible. If prayers don't work, it makes sense not to rely on them. Again: do you have any examples of answered prayers with which to rebut the idea in my signature, that prayers do nothing at all?But that was my last prayer in this sense, because I think health problems may have a meaning and God allowed this to happen to me to begin with. Now I try to change my life style the moment I discover a problem.
Hahah. Very funny. Let's see you disprove Santa, then.to give an example, some Christians think they have to apologize to the creator when they do harm to the creation, for instance… I mean the one you can't disprove.
Knowing doesn't cut it on a debate forum. And if you don't have evidence for what you "know", perhaps you should consider whether or not you really know it after all.For me, it suffices to think that God knows. I think he is real.
And it is accurate.....That is exactly what I would have written if I had made up a religion. "You'll only be able to see the truth if you believe first".
Hi Nihilist, nice to meet you, too.
I think this idea is defendable and I think we will have the opportunity to discuss some of the purported errors.
But why do you think the Bible requiring an index is a weakness?
I'm convinced… the important things speak for themselves and if you want to know more you ask the index.
The important things - Jesus's teachings concerning salvation, for example - can be read the way they are written, in my opinion.
Thomas
To find something you have to look for it? Certainly.
But "open sincerity" - what does this mean? A strange way of putting it. Of course, I am sincere in saying I want to know the truth, and would like to know if God is real. But there's a difference between saying "I will look at the evidence and follow what it means" and "I know what the truth is and will now go looking for evidence to support my ideas."
But you could find evidence of God in a book written by people, especially if it was inspired by God. And if a book was inspired by God - even if through the filter of human minds - you would expect it to be expectional. It should have beautiful, inspiring poetry. It should contain truths impossible for humans to have at that time. It should be an amazingly written book. It should be immediately obvious to all that God exists. And, of course, the Bible is nothing of the sort. It loks like what it almost certainly is - a collection of disparate writings by people making up stories about the world.
Prove? Proof, as they say, is for mathematics and alcohol. Evidence is what we're looking for. It's honest of you to admit that there is no evidence for God, but seeing as we're in the "Christian Apologetics" forum it puts you in a pretty weak position.
A rather suspicious way of putting it. Perhaps what you meant was "There is proof, and anyone can find it if they look."
Saying, "Anyone is capable of experiencing convincing personal proof" - well, that's true. Anyone is capable of deluding themselves into thinking they have found the truth. Humans are really good at imagining things.
Poisoning the well fallacy. Do you have proof, or evidence? Or does is just exist inside your own mind?
Well, that would make sense, if you don't have any evidence for God being real.
Nonsense. Pure nonsense. What is, is. Evidence may be hard to find, but if God exists then, at least in theory, He is discoverable. If you have nothing to say on this, then all you're doing is preaching on a debating forum.
Hand wave noted. How many times have you read the Bible cover to cover within a year?Well now, in my experience there are plenty of contradictions in the Bible, but these are only a problem for Christians who say there are none and can be none.
I have never read the Bible cover to cover, but I do have a fair knowledge of it.Hand wave noted. How many times have you read the Bible cover to cover within a year?
That's very good. I hope you practise what you preach."Open sincerity" simply means an objective frame of mind. One needs to have a willingness to accept whatever evidence is found and follow each thread to whatever destination it takes you.
Obviously? Why obviously?As for "evidence", there are different kinds of evidence. You obviously prefer something physical, tangible that can be held in your hand and can be shown to others. I'm persuaded that this type of evidence will never be found with regard to the existence of God.
Because the book was inspired by God. As such, we would expect it to contain wisdom beyond that which could be produced by normal people. But it doesn't. It's not special in any way.Your expectations for a book written by men is not very logical or even reasonable. Why should ANY book hold such power? "It should immediately obvious to all that God exists".
Of course it wouldn't. The logical way to proceed would be to follow where the evidence leads, as you yourself said.A logical way to proceed with this question about the Bible would be to suppose the premise that (1) God exists, (2) that Jesus came to our world to reveal God to mankind.
Actually, massive intellectual advancements do happen virtually overnight, yes, in a historical sense. So yes, I would expect a book written at the direction of God Himself to contain something more spectacular than it does.Is is logical to suddenly expect massive intellectual advancement over night? The Apostles themselves were full of their own prejudices and bigotries. They were hardly perfect humans.
No, you don't. Nobody does. Because God is very hard to find, isn't He? Almost as if He doesn't exist. And "follow your own path" is a red herring. Let's see if God exists or not first, then we can have a debate about how we ought to relate to Him.If YOU seek to find the truth, will you find God if He exists? I don't know that answer. Every man and woman must follow their own path.
But have you found God? Do you actually have evidence that He exists?I have found God, but I don't truly understand Him yet. I learned that God is the absolute of love and logic. The two cannot be separated. My pursuit of the truth continues and with all of the unexpected discoveries I have found, I can't guess where my path will lead.
Ah. You can't? What a shame.
I am waiting for you to commit yourself instead of just dancing around on the edges and trying to drop an occasional zinger.....so far, not impressed.Is it? Please feel free to provide evidence of that.
I think you're right. Contradictions would be a good discussion, but let's leave it for anothert thread.Maybe some don’t know the Bible as well as an atheist? But what are you defining as a contradiction and perhaps this would be a good thread in its own.
So the story goes. Have you ever seen Jesus? Have you ever seen God? No? So, yes, "hidden".Hidden? You do realize why Christians celebrate Christmas? God became flesh to save us.
Sorry, got lost a little here. How did I mention "the bad"?If you are going to mention the bad then the good must be discussed. Jesus actually answers this.
Of course, of course. I quite understand that God does now always answer prayers with a yes. Despite His saying that He would. But I agree, it's reasonable that God would sometimes not answer prayers, or answer them no.God is not a cosmic sugar daddy answering every prayer for the college student who did not study and wants a higher grade. Prayers hopeful that some professor will make their C an A.
Okay. Let me clarify myself.I am waiting for you to commit yourself instead of just dancing around on the edges and trying to drop an occasional zinger.....so far, not impressed.
What is your best argument for the existence of God?
You met Jesus personally? What, while you were conscious? This is amazing!I thought we were already doing that here:
Resurrection Evidence
My best evidence/argument for both (they are practically asking the same thing) is that we have met...personally.
See how this is different than the kid in your christmas story who never says that he actually met santa?
But this is evidence (testimony)/ argument that you brush off as...what...delusion?
I will follow your rules.....Okay. Let me clarify myself.
See those three statements at the bottom of my signature? These are all questions that I have found Christians are unable to answer. Can you answer one, both, or all of them?
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit.....something that can only be understood by personal experience.....so that would necessarily exclude you.Or, in more general terms:
What is your best argument for the existence of God?
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