A Christian perspective on the US election.

[praying]

Let Obama's followers pray to their own gods and to whatever god Obama worships.

And there it is in black and white. Whatver God Obama worships.

 

[praying]

I don't think name calling is very becoming for a moderator who is supposed to model better behavior than that, do you?

You are right so it's a good thing I didn't call anyone a name.

That may be what you chose to read into it, but that isn't what he said at all.

You are being naive to think he didn't mean it that way, if he didn't there was no need to mention it. It wasn't a discussion of theology it was a political prayer.

 

[PastorJim]

You are right so it's a good thing I didn't call anyone a name.

You called me naive.

You are being naive to think he didn't mean it that way, if he didn't there was no need to mention it. It wasn't a discussion of theology it was a political prayer.

Like I said, what you chose to read into it is up to you but that still isn't what he said.

 

[Bootstrap]

I believe that abortion is the primary moral issue in our nation today.

If Obama does not have the moral clarity to know that it is wrong to kill children, then he is not fit to lead our nation.

I respect that.

I agree that abortion is wrong. I think there are other major moral issues today, and I also suspect that promoting contraception and helping unwed mothers keep their kids without being forced into poverty is likely to be more effective in reducing abortions than outlawing abortion. (I'm not trying to debate who is right here, I'm just explaining how I can be against abortion and still support Obama.)

Obama was asked once in an interview about abortion and he stated that moral judgements were "above his paygrade", begging the question, if they're above his paygrade, why is he voting on those issues?

That was a really stupid response to the question, wasn't it?

Jonathan

 

[PastorJim]

I agree that abortion is wrong.

But you're going to vote for somebody who supports it.

I think there are other major moral issues today, and I also suspect that promoting contraception and helping unwed mothers keep their kids without being forced into poverty is likely to be more effective in reducing abortions than outlawing abortion.

That's called pragmatism and it's wrong.

(I'm not trying to debate who is right here, I'm just explaining how I can be against abortion and still support Obama.)

If you're supporting a candidate that openly and actively supports abortion and, if his past is anything to go by, will use every resource at his disposal to keep it legal, you're not against abortion.

That was a really stupid response to the question, wasn't it?

Almost as much as somebody saying that they're against abortion, but is going to vote for somebody who will do anything in his power to uphold it.

 

[Bootstrap]

I think there are other major moral issues today, and I also suspect that promoting contraception and helping unwed mothers keep their kids without being forced into poverty is likely to be more effective in reducing abortions than outlawing abortion.

That's called pragmatism and it's wrong.

You may see it that way, and I respect that. I don't think Jesus worked by trying to get harsher laws passed, he worked to try to heal and help people, restoring them to God. I'm trying to follow that example. I guess I'd call that reconciling Biblical love rather than pragmatism.

Jonathan

P.S. I'm trying to explain myself rather than debate; if you choose to respond I'll let you have the last word on this.

 

[platzapS]

But you're going to vote for somebody who supports it.



That's called pragmatism and it's wrong.



If you're supporting a candidate that openly and actively supports abortion and, if his past is anything to go by, will use every resource at his disposal to keep it legal, you're not against abortion.



Almost as much as somebody saying that they're against abortion, but is going to vote for somebody who will do anything in his power to uphold it.

I will fight for the rights of fascists and communists to publicly argue for their ideologies, but I don't support fascism or communism. You can want to keep something legal even if you personally think it is immoral.

 

[PastorJim]

You may see it that way, and I respect that. I don't think Jesus worked by trying to get harsher laws passed, he worked to try to heal and help people, restoring them to God. I'm trying to follow that example. I guess I'd call that reconciling Biblical love rather than pragmatism.

This is one of the things that make it so difficult to talk to liberal Christians about these things are that they keep insisting that Jesus was a political leader.

First of all, if you didn't think Jesus passed harsh laws, read the Old Testament sometime.

Second, the reason Jesus did not work to get laws passed during his Earthly ministry is that His mission was to seek and save that which was lost, not pass laws.

<Staff Edit>

 

[PastorJim]

I will fight for the rights of fascists and communists to publicly argue for their ideologies, but I don't support fascism or communism. You can want to keep something legal even if you personally think it is immoral.

But do you fight for the right of Communists and facists to kill babies in the womb?

If you want to keep something legal then, by definition, you are not against it.

 

[praying]

liberal "Christians"

Why can't we be liberal Christains, why must we be liberal "Christians"?

Of course the point being we aren't Christian at all really. So pray tell you ddn't mean that that way either just like the pastor did mean his comments about praying to others Gods and Obama wasn't purely and underhanded dig to paint people as somehow less than the true Christians™ and therefore not trustworthy.

 

[Abel1337]

good perspective

 

[JustOneWay]

Why can't we be liberal Christains, why must we be liberal "Christians"?

Of course the point being we aren't Christian at all really. So pray tell you ddn't mean that that way either just like the pastor did mean his comments about praying to others Gods and Obama wasn't purely and underhanded dig to paint people as somehow less than the true Christians&#8482; and therefore not trustworthy.

Your are being naive if you think PastorJim believes liberals (or at least anybody who votes for Obama regardless of their view on abortion) are Christians. That is what he is trying to say without actually saying it, and that is why he agrees with the OP video.

 

[PastorJim]

Your are being naive if you think PastorJim believes liberals (or at least anybody who votes for Obama regardless of their view on abortion) are Christians. That is what he is trying to say without actually saying it, and that is why he agrees with the OP video.

No, I agree with the video because I believe that it is Biblical to pray for Godly leaders.

I never said that a liberal can't be a Christian.

 

[JustOneWay]

No, I agree with the video because I believe that it is Biblical to pray for Godly leaders.

I never said that a liberal can't be a Christian.

Then do tell. Is it something like "A liberal can be a Christian if a liberal behaves like a conservative"

 

[JustOneWay]

Did I say that McCain is a Christian? I don't know if he is or not. I know that he's invoked Jesus' name on a couple of occasions but, like I said, that doesn't make him a Christian.

No, I agree with the video because I believe that it is Biblical to pray for Godly leaders.

The video only prayed for McCain. How do you know he is a Godly leader?

 

[PastorJim]

Then do tell. Is it something like "A liberal can be a Christian if a liberal behaves like a conservative"

A liberal can be a Christian if they're born again and, if they're born again, their doctrine and fruits will reflect that.

 

[PastorJim]

The video only prayed for McCain.

Yeah, I've already addressed this for you a couple of times now.

 

[JustOneWay]

A liberal can be a Christian if they're born again and, if they're born again, their doctrine and fruits will reflect that.

I see, and if one believes that a woman should have the right to do with her womb as she seems fit, that one is not truly born again. I understand how this argument goes round and round.

 

[PastorJim]

I see, and if one believes that a woman should have the right to do with her womb as she seems fit, that one is not truly born again. I understand how this argument goes round and round.

I don't see anything in scripture that says a woman can't do what she wants with her womb.

However, the Bible is pretty clear that murder is a sin and that murder of little children is especially heinous so when we're talking about killing a little baby in that womb or supporting those who would do so, then, no, that is not compatible with being born again.

You simply cannot, cannot, CANNOT support abortion and say that you're a Christian.

 

[JustOneWay]

Yeah, I've already addressed this for you a couple of times now.

It was a prayer to God to energize McCain. You agree with the video because it is Biblical to pray for Godly leaders, yet you state that you don't know if McCain is a Christian. Why would you agree with the video of you don't know if McCain is a Christian?