A Christian perspective on the US election.

[PastorJim]

You really didn't listen to the prayer, did you?

Yes, I did.

I have no problem with him praying for McCain, although I believe a prayer to lift up McCain AND Obama (both Christian) would have been more Christian-like and better for our country.

Why would he pray for Obama at a McCain rally? Isn't that what Obama rallies are for?

Let Obama's followers pray to their own gods and to whatever god Obama worships.

 

[Bootstrap]

Go to the General Apologetics forum sometime. There are a lot of threads there claiming that Hitler was a Christian, too.

Godwin's law - on post #16.

Here's an interesting article for anyone who is interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_beliefs

Just because somebody says "Jesus" doesn't mean they're a Christian. When Obama's doctrine and fruit are examined, it's clear that he's no Christian.

I agree with you on the first, I disagree with you on the second.

Just out of curiosity, do you think of McCain as a Christian? If so, what do you see as the Christian fruit in his life?

Jonathan

 

[PastorJim]

Just out of curiosity, do you think of McCain as a Christian? If so, what do you see as the Christian fruit in his life?

Since you weren't interested in listening the first time I answered this question, I will repeat:

I do not know whether or not McCain is a Christian.

 

[KarrieTex]

It is against the law for a pastor to support a political candidate, the church can lose its tax exempt status by so doing and I hope they do.

IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW. A pastor can support publically any candidate he wants. What CHANGES (not against) the law is if they make it a pulpit banging sesion.

My pastor can come out of the pulpit and scream to the sky that he supports mickey mouse but he can not do it on Sunday in the pulpit.

 

[Bootstrap]

Why would he pray for Obama at a McCain rally? Isn't that what Obama rallies are for?

Let Obama's followers pray to their own gods and to whatever god Obama worships.

I tend to go along with Anabaptist "Two Kingdom" theology here. I don't think either party is God's party, and I don't think the United States is God's Kingdom either. The real Kingdom of God is the church, where God's spirit is at work. We can and should try to be a leaven to our country and to the political parties here.

So what I found offensive about the prayer is primarily the implication that John McCain is God's agent here on earth, and Barack Obama is the enemy that foreign Gods are trying to install instead of God's hero.

Isn't this the kind of Messiah complex that people have accused Obama supporters of? Whoever we elect, he's not going to be the Messiah.

Jonathan

 

[JustOneWay]

My pastor can come out of the pulpit and scream to the sky that he supports mickey mouse but he can not do it on Sunday in the pulpit.

Cool....

because I just heard Mickey Mouse registered to vote!

 

[JustOneWay]

Yes, I did.



Why would he pray for Obama at a McCain rally? Isn't that what Obama rallies are for?

Let Obama's followers pray to their own gods and to whatever god Obama worships.

I see. You advocate a separation of Christians based on political party.

 

[PastorJim]

I see. You advocate a separation of Christians based on political party.

No, I advocate an end to the silly and Unbiblical notion that claiming to be a Christian makes one a Christian.

I also advocate those who claim to be Christians not to go against the word of God and vote for somebody who supports the slaughter of little children in the womb.

 

[JustOneWay]

Did I say that McCain is a Christian? I don't know if he is or not. I know that he's invoked Jesus' name on a couple of occasions but, like I said, that doesn't make him a Christian.

I see. You don't know if McCain is Christian, but you are sure Obama isn't.

 

[PastorJim]

So what I found offensive about the prayer is primarily the implication that John McCain is God's agent here on earth, and Barack Obama is the enemy that foreign Gods are trying to install instead of God's hero.

I do believe that Obama is an enemy of God based upon, if nothing else, his support for the killing of innocent children in the womb.

Isn't this the kind of Messiah complex that people have accused Obama supporters of? Whoever we elect, he's not going to be the Messiah.

I agree. However, as a Christian, I have an obligation not to vote for somebody who goes against the Messiah's commandments and teachings.

 

[Bootstrap]

My pastor can come out of the pulpit and scream to the sky that he supports mickey mouse but he can not do it on Sunday in the pulpit.

http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=357563&altf=Njdlfz&altl=Npvtf

Jonathan

 

[PastorJim]

I see. You don't know if McCain is Christian, but you are sure Obama isn't.

Yes, because Obama has revealed more of the religious doctrines he holds than John McCain has.

Perhaps if I knew more about John McCain's doctrine, I would come to the same conclusion.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW. A pastor can support publically any candidate he wants. What CHANGES (not against) the law is if they make it a pulpit banging sesion.

My pastor can come out of the pulpit and scream to the sky that he supports mickey mouse but he can not do it on Sunday in the pulpit.

That is true but he needs to to keep it to himself and not sway the opinions of the church members.

 

[PastorJim]

That is true but he needs to to keep it to himself and not sway the opinions of the church members.

Why? Do you think that the church was wrong for preaching against slavery?

 

[Bootstrap]

Yes, because Obama has revealed more of the religious doctrines he holds than John McCain has.

Perhaps if I knew more about John McCain's doctrine, I would come to the same conclusion.

Which of Obama's religious beliefs do you disagree with?

I'm guessing you look consider abortion and homosexuality the most important moral issues in an election? Or are there others you consider particularly important?

Jonathan

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Why? Do you think that the church was wrong for preaching against slavery?

Slavery is not a political candidate.

 

[praying]

His point is that those Obama supporters who worship false gods are praying to their false gods for Obama.

Isn't it interesting that nobody seems to have a problem with those praying to false gods for Obama, but the moment somebody prays to God for McCain, they go nuts?

That isn't his point at all, and someone would have to be pretty naïve to think so. His point is; those people who aren’t like us, they are different and through that difference, that non-Christian, pray to fake God difference, they are smarmy and untrustworthy. The (il)logical leap in conclusion is so is Obama. The whole thinks smacks of unrepentant bigotry and prejudice.

 

[PastorJim]

Which of Obama's religious beliefs do you disagree with?

For starters, his rejection of John 8:24.

I'm guessing you look consider abortion and homosexuality the most important moral issues in an election?

I believe that abortion is the primary moral issue in our nation today.

If Obama does not have the moral clarity to know that it is wrong to kill children, then he is not fit to lead our nation.

Obama was asked once in an interview about abortion and he stated that moral judgements were "above his paygrade", begging the question, if they're above his paygrade, why is he voting on those issues?

 

[PastorJim]

That isn't his point at all, and someone would have to be pretty naïve to think so.

I don't think name calling is very becoming for a moderator who is supposed to model better behavior than that, do you?

His point is; those people who aren’t like us, they are different and through that difference, that non-Christian, pray to fake God difference, they are smarmy and untrustworthy. The (il)logical leap in conclusion is so is Obama. The whole thinks smacks of unrepentant bigotry and prejudice.

That may be what you chose to read into it, but that isn't what he said at all.

 

[PastorJim]

Slavery is not a political candidate.

So then, you do think it was wrong for the church to preach against slavery?