a Christian only topic of vaccine mandates

[Job 33:6]

No, it's not.



"Breakthrough cases of infection" is just another way to say infections that the vaccine failed to prevent.



It's also true that large numbers of vaccinated people are getting infected.



Not true.



Dishonesty is one of the main reasons people are vaccine hesitant.

Here is the truth. If you have never had COVID, you will have far greater protection if you've been vaccinated from severe illness, hospitalization or death. However being vaccinated will not prevent you from getting infected, nor will it prevent you from spreading the disease.

This aligns with your data that 9/10 people who are hospitalized and/or dying is unvaccinated*. But it is not "rare" for breakthrough infections to occur. They occur quite regularly.

* or partially vaccinated, or not 14 days past their second dose, or their vaccination status is unknown

Your own study contradicts your own words.

It says it right above that even in cases of breakthrough infection, you still kill the virus faster. And your study doesn't even talk about probability of getting the virus to begin with.

You have taken the study also out of context. Which is why the conclusions of the study say exactly the opposite of what you are saying. If you took a moment to read it.

I quote:
"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings."

It is true that when you have the virus, you can still spread it. The vaccines will not stop you from spreading the virus If you have a breakthrough infection. But the data also clarifies and says very clearly that if you do have a breakthrough case you will kill the virus faster and will be contagious for a shorter period of time therefore limiting transmissibility. And the study says this very clearly. And the study does not touch on the overall probability of breakthrough infections, but rather it starts with a discussion of if you are contagious after you've already had a breakthrough infection.

Youre misunderstanding what the CDC has said, you're taking it out of context and you're contradicting the one study you've provided with data.

 

[Job 33:6]

The woman you quoted from the CDC was saying when you get a breakthrough infection, you can still spread that infection. But she's not saying that the vaccines don't prevent infection to begin with. She's just saying that when you have it, you can still spread it in similar ways to an unvaccinated person.

And to make this more clear, notice that she doesn't say that the vaccines don't prevent infection, she's saying that the vaccines don't prevent transmission. So she's explicitly referring to people who already are infected and are transmitting.

And obviously if someone doesn't get infected to begin with, they can't transmit the virus. There are two types of transmission, there's a broader transmission (overall transmission) related to if The vaccines prevent people from getting infected and thus prevent transmission because people don't have the virus, and then there's a second type of transmission (onward transmission) related to once you are infected how well you transmit the virus. And The woman from the CDC is referring to the latter and she's saying that once you are infected you can spread the virus, but she is not saying that the vaccines do not prevent infection.

Which we all know is true, but the question is A. What percentage of people don't get the virus because they're vaccinated (60-80% is what most studies demonstrate), and B. If youre vaccinated, does vaccination result in death of the virus faster If you get infected? And the answer to this second question is "yes". And if you kill the virus faster there is a lower probability that you will spread it which is a blatant conclusion. And thus vaccination prevents both overall transmission and onward transmission.

And your own study concludes my statement about question B. So there's no denying it, because you yourself have sourced it. Unless you want to take back your own words.

 

[Job 33:6]

The woman you quoted from the CDC was saying when you get a breakthrough infection, you can still spread that infection. But she's not saying that the vaccines don't prevent infection to begin with. She's just saying that when you have it, you can still spread it in similar ways to an unvaccinated person.

And to make this more clear, notice that she doesn't say that the vaccines don't prevent infection, she's saying that the vaccines don't prevent transmission. So she's explicitly referring to people who already are infected and are transmitting.

And obviously if someone doesn't get infected to begin with, they can't transmit the virus. There are two types of transmission, there's a broader transmission related to if The vaccines prevent people from getting infected and thus prevent transmission because people don't have the virus, and then there's a second type of transmission related to once you are infected how well you transmit the virus. And The woman from the CDC is referring to the latter and she's saying that once you are infected you can spread the virus, but she is not saying that the vaccines do not prevent infection.

Which we all know is true, but the question is A. What percentage of people don't get the virus because they're vaccinated (60-80% is what most studies demonatrate), and B. If youre vaccinated, does vaccination result in death of the virus faster If you get infected? And the answer to this second question is "yes". And if you kill the virus faster there is a lower probability that you will spread it which is a blatant conclusion.

And your own study concludes my statement about question B. So there's no denying it, because you yourself have sourced it. Unless you want to take back your own words.

I've broken the above post down into two concepts of transmission to help explain why you are taking the woman's words out of context.

 

[Job 33:6]

I've broken the above post down into two concepts of transmission to help explain why you are taking the woman's words out of context.

And if it still wasn't clear enough, here's the article being referred to with the quote from the CDC director:
Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC chief says - CNN

Notice the headline.

"Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus"

Aka people who are already infected can spread the virus, but it's not talking about the question of if you can get the virus to begin with if you are vaccinated, And further it's not talking about how fast you kill the virus once you have it if you are vaccinated versus unvaccinated.

 

[Job 33:6]

And if it still wasn't clear enough, here's the article being referred to with the quote from the CDC director:
Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC chief says - CNN

Notice the headline.

"Fully vaccinated people who get a Covid-19 breakthrough infection can transmit the virus"

Aka people who are already infected can spread the virus, but it's not talking about the question of if you can get the virus to begin with if you are vaccinated, And further it's not talking about how fast you kill the virus once you have it if you are vaccinated versus on vaccinated.

Lastly, I'm going to share a video. It's a bit long, But it discusses several studies that cover all these topics and you're welcome to watch it when you have some free time.

With all the above said, I am telling you that it is a known fact that vaccines prevent overall transmission by preventing infection, and they also kill the virus faster in rarer cases of breakthrough infection. And whether or not you can accept this is up to you.

Now I'm going to go read Romans 15 to review how to treat my brothers. Because clearly fallen short of our Fathers glory.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Here's yet another example of vaccines failing to stop the spread of the virus. Here are the facts;

Cal's football team is 99% vaccinated.

There are 112 students and staff in total on the team.

Only 2 of them are not vaccinated and according to the article, those 2 have had COVID.

44 of the students and staff tested positive for COVID. The outbreak was so bad, they had to postpone one of their games.

Stop listening to the gaslighters that tell you vaccines slow the spread of the virus.

Cal's football team was 99% vaccinated before a big COVID-19 outbreak. What happened?

This proves nothing about the overall effectiveness of covid vaccines. It was not a controlled study. We have no idea how much virus exposure these football team members had. And it not compared to a similar team where nobody was vaccinated. So this does not even attempt to compare vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people.

 

[probinson]

This proves nothing about the overall effectiveness of covid vaccines. It was not a controlled study. We have no idea how much virus exposure these football team members had. And it not compared to a similar team where nobody was vaccinated. So this does not even attempt to compare vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people.

If you say so.

44 vaccinated players contracted COVID. Out of 112. 36% breakthrough in one group. "Rare", apparently.

How much virus exposure they had is irrelevant. They were vaccinated. They got infected. And they spread it to their teammates.

It's true that this is not a controlled study, but as as the world around people doesn't look like the health "experts" and "The Science™" tells them it should, they'll start to recognize the gaslighting that's taken place.

Fully vaccinated? Only until the CDC decides you must have a booster to claim that coveted status. Boosted? Only until the CDC declares you must get a booster every 6 months.

You see, "The Science™" changes on a whim, not with new data, but with new political motivations. That's why we have governors and even public health "experts" suggesting everyone should get booster shots, even though the FDA hasn't approved boosters for everyone.

The CDC, the FDA and public health are a joke. The damage that has been done to trust in public health is real and will have long-lasting consequences long after this pandemic is a bad memory.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If you say so.

44 vaccinated players contracted COVID. Out of 112. 36% breakthrough in one group. "Rare", apparently.

What would it have been if no one was vaccinated? We don't know. Controlled tests still show effectiveness against covid.

How much virus exposure they had is irrelevant.

Absolutely not. With sufficiently high exposure, anyone will become infected.

It's true that this is not a controlled study...

Thank you. Controlled studies are more reliable than cherry-picked anecdotal stories.

You see, "The Science™" changes on a whim, not with new data,

Wrong. The science only changes in response to new data, which we are getting all the time. So expect the recommendations to change. That is normal.

The CDC, the FDA and public health are a joke.

Over the top accusations do not help your case.

 

[The Barbarian]

Dishonesty is one of the main reasons people are vaccine hesitant.

Yes. A few of the more egregious dishonesties used to keep people from being vaccinated:

The vaccines aren't safe because they were developed quickly.

The vaccines can lead to long-term effects.

You can get COVID-19 from the vaccines.

I’ve already had COVID-19, so I don’t need to get vaccinated.

People with underlying conditions shouldn’t get vaccinated.

People with suppressed immune systems shouldn’t get vaccinated.

If you get vaccinated, it could make you infertile.

If I’m pregnant or breastfeeding, I shouldn’t get vaccinated.

I don’t need to get vaccinated because I’m young and healthy.
10 Rumors About The COVID-19 Vaccines That Aren't True

 

[probinson]

What would it have been if no one was vaccinated? We don't know. Controlled tests still show effectiveness against covid.

Johns Hopkins, which initially reported a 1 in 5,000 breakthrough infection rate, now says that recent studies show it might be more like 1 in 100. Or perhaps it's more like 4 in 10, like we saw with the Cal football team. Who knows! Science can be so fickle...

Breakthrough Infections: Coronavirus After Vaccination

Absolutely not. With sufficiently high exposure, anyone will become infected.

"Sufficiently high exposure". Got something a little less subjective than that?

Wrong. The science only changes in response to new data,

That's the way it should be, but THE SCIENCE™ has proven itself to be a fickle friend indeed.

Over the top accusations do not help your case.

Not an over the top accusation. It's quite accurate to say that the CDC and the FDA have a big public trust problem;

Poll Finds Public Health Has A Trust Problem

Trust in CDC, FDA Took a Beating During Pandemic

 

[probinson]

I’ve already had COVID-19, so I don’t need to get vaccinated.

True story, bro.

Natural immunity is a thing and everyone knows it.

 

[RDKirk]

From a Christian point of view, debates about the efficacy of the vaccine are irrelevant.

Romans 13 tells us all we need to know.

 

[probinson]

From a Christian point of view, debates about the efficacy of the vaccine are irrelevant.

Romans 13 tells us all we need to know.

What a remarkably tortured misapplication of scripture.

 

[RDKirk]

What a remarkably tortured misapplication of scripture.

Quite the opposite, actually. Everyone else is doing the scripture-torturing.

 

[probinson]

Quite the opposite, actually. Everyone else is doing the scripture-torturing.

I haven't even mentioned any scripture...

 

[RDKirk]

I haven't even mentioned any scripture...

Then from a Christian point of view, your posts are already irrelevant.

 

[probinson]

Then from a Christian point of view, your posts are already irrelevant.

Alrighty then.

Back to your original "point". You say that vaccine efficacy is irrelevant, and then point to Romans 13, apparently suggesting it doesn't matter whether the vaccines are effective or not, because we are to be subject to those in power. This is, to repeat, a horribly tortured misapplication of scripture.

What if the vaccines weren't beneficial, or worse, increased risk (as they do for some younger male teens)? Should Christians still acquiesce to receive the vaccines in that case, just because the government says they should?

 

[The Barbarian]

44 vaccinated players contracted COVID. Out of 112. 36% breakthrough in one group. "Rare", apparently.

This is a bit higher than most surveys of larger groups show. But then a rather small sample, with people all in very close contact for an extended period, so maybe. But no journal would accept a report with a sample that small.

How much virus exposure they had is irrelevant.

If you think so, you don't know anything about viral infections.

The risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection varies according to the amount of virus to which a person is exposed
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

It's true that this is not a controlled study

Nor does it have a statistically valid sample size. I'll ask again: how many of them had serious illness and were hospitalized?

Fully vaccinated? Only until the CDC decides you must have a booster to claim that coveted status.

Fully vaccinated” includes people who have received two doses of Moderna or Pfizer vaccines or a single dose of Janssen vaccine.
Information about Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)

You see, "The Science™" changes on a whim, not with new data, but with new political motivations.

See the stories anti-vaxxers have peddled to the unwary. You're projecting here.

The CDC, the FDA and public health are a joke.

Last poll I saw showed the most people trust doctors and public health people far more then the anti-vaxxers:

Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases
Still about two-in-ten ‘pretty certain’ they won’t get vaccine – even when there’s more information
Intent to Get a COVID-19 Vaccine Rises to 60% as Confidence in Research and Development Process Increases

More Americans believe in Bigfoot and Trump winning in 2020 than seriously doubt vaccines. In spite of frantic efforts, the truth still beats the lies.

 

[Hammster]

From a Christian point of view, debates about the efficacy of the vaccine are irrelevant.

Romans 13 tells us all we need to know.

If you mean that we should obey the government when they are acting as deacons of Christ, then yes.

 

[The Barbarian]

What if the vaccines weren't beneficial, or worse, increased risk (as they do for some younger male teens)?

Show us that. Scientific journal articles. What do you have?

What if the vaccines weren't beneficial, or worse, increased risk (as they do for some younger male teens)?

You've been misled about that, too...

The MHRA concludes positive safety profile for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in 12- to 15-year-olds

This follows a rigorous review of the safety, quality and effectiveness of the vaccine in this age group.
The MHRA concludes positive safety profile for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in 12- to 15-year-olds