A Christian’s Case Against Exemptions to Vaccine Mandates

[topher694]

Friendly question: where is any scripture against vaccination or other physical precautions (which could be interpreted to include vaccines)?

As my post suggested that is largely subjective, but yes, I believe there is for this type of vaccine and for mandating it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

So you believe the actual vicar of Christ is wrong? Wow

Yup! Infallibility is a very limited thing, and when he pontificates on vaccines he has gone beyond the limited protections of infallibility.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you are so strong in God, go get the virus. Spread it around to your friends and family. Since it's so harmless, only a few of them will die or suffer months of debilitating side effects. And you will be standing up to the world - whatever the cost in other people's lives. If I shake my head any harder, it might fall off......

The vaccine doesn’t stop people from contracting the virus nor does it stop them from spreading it to others. It only helps to lessen the effects of the virus when a person catches it. A vaccinated person can just as easily spread the virus to others. So the only person the vaccine helps to protect is the vaccinated person and unvaccinated people aren’t actually putting anyone else’s life at risk any more than a vaccinated person. What’s actually putting more people at risk is the vaccinated people who think they’re immune to it and can’t spread it to others so they think they don’t need to wear a mask or social distance anymore. I see it in grocery stores, convenient stores, restaurants, department stores, etc signs on the front door saying “You must wear a mask unless you have been fully vaccinated”. Now that the vaccine is out the kids at my daughter’s elementary school don’t have to wear masks anymore even though they aren’t eligible to get vaccinated because they’re too young. The vaccination is actually causing more harm than good by encouraging people to drop their guard by giving them a false sense of security. Now that we have the vaccine places like Six Flags and movie theaters don’t have to do temperature checks anymore for people entering. Virtual learning for my kids school, not an option this year thanks to the vaccine even though none of the kids in elementary school are old enough to get it. Don’t get me wrong the vaccine is a great idea but all the propaganda surrounding it is going to be detrimental to the spread of the virus. I see it so often here on CF where vaccinated people are constantly badgering the unvaccinated claiming that they’re putting other people at risk when the fact is that vaccinated are just as much of a risk for spreading covid as anyone else and with the false sense of security added into that factor they’re actually more of a risk to others because they think they’re safe.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The vaccine doesn’t stop people from contracting the virus nor does it stop them from spreading it to others. It only helps to lessen the effects of the virus when a person catches it. A vaccinated person can just as easily spread the virus to others. So the only person the vaccine helps to protect is the vaccinated person and unvaccinated people aren’t actually putting anyone else’s life at risk any more than a vaccinated person. What’s actually putting more people at risk is the vaccinated people who think they’re immune to it and can’t spread it to others so they think they don’t need to wear a mask or social distance anymore. I see it in grocery stores, convenient stores, restaurants, department stores, etc signs on the front door saying “You must wear a mask unless you have been fully vaccinated”. Now that the vaccine is out the kids at my daughter’s elementary school don’t have to wear masks anymore even though they are eligible to get vaccinated because they’re too young. The vaccination is actually causing more harm than good by encouraging people to drop their guard by giving them a false sense of security. Now that we have the vaccine places like Six Flags and movie theaters doesn’t have to do temperature checks anymore for people entering. Virtual learning for my kids school, not an option this year thanks to the vaccine even though none of the kids in elementary school are old enough to get it. Don’t get me wrong the vaccine is a great idea but all the propaganda surrounding it is going to be detrimental to the spread of the virus. I see it so often here on CF where vaccinated people are constantly badgering the unvaccinated claiming that they’re putting other people at risk when the fact is that vaccinated are just as much of a risk for spreading covid and anyone else and with the false sense of security added into that factor they’re actually more of a risk to others because they think they’re safe.

As someone who is six months out from her second shot for me it is not about that I cannot get or spread it ( I realize I can do both) Even though I also had the virus three months before taking the shots. Instead it is about IF I get it I am much less likely to be in the ICU or otherwise taking up a hospital bed even if I were to actually get it.

 

[dogs4thewin]

As my post suggested that is largely subjective, but yes, I believe there is for this type of vaccine and for mandating it.

So does that mean that it is OK to mandate some vaccines?

 

[tstor]

The vaccine doesn’t stop people from contracting the virus nor does it stop them from spreading it to others.

You're incorrect in both cases. The vaccines do prevent people from contracting the virus. That's one of the main features of the COVID vaccines (or any vaccine). Now, it doesn't make you 100% immune to COVID. No vaccine offers that sort of protection. The fact is that the vast majority of new COVID cases are among the unvaccinated. The vast majority of those who have been hospitalized due to COVID are unvaccinated. The vast majority of deaths due to COVID are among the unvaccinated. As well, the vaccines do prevent the spread of the virus.

So the only person the vaccine helps to protect is the vaccinated person and unvaccinated people aren’t actually putting anyone else’s life at risk any more than a vaccinated person.

Unvaccinated people are putting others at risk.

What’s actually putting more people at risk is the vaccinated people who think they’re immune to it and can’t spread it to others so they think they don’t need to wear a mask or social distance anymore. I see it in grocery stores, convenient stores, restaurants, department stores, etc signs on the front door saying “You must wear a mask unless you have been fully vaccinated”. Now that the vaccine is out the kids at my daughter’s elementary school don’t have to wear masks anymore even though they are eligible to get vaccinated because they’re too young.

I agree that the relaxed attitude surrounding social distancing, masks, and other preventative practices is a problem.

The vaccination is actually causing more harm than good by encouraging people to drop their guard by giving them a false sense of security.

This is quite obviously not true. Even with the relaxed standards, vaccines have been extremely effective in preventing infections, lessening the severity of infections, and reducing the spread of the virus.

 

[Strathos]

If you're going to be unvaccinated, I would like to at least know in advance, so I can keep you away from my family.

 

[topher694]

So does that mean that it is OK to mandate some vaccines?

I'm not sure. I suppose a case could be made for that given the right circumstances. But, these things effect everyone differently which is why personal conviction is so important. ie, how God directs one person in their personal health can be different than now He directs another. We should never force our personal convictions on others.

 

[Sparagmos]

First, not all vaccines ever developed have used aborted baby fetal cell lines in development or testing. So an objection to one vaccine is not at all inconsistent if one does not object to all vaccines. Vaccines differ morally. The Catholic issue here is not an objection to all vaccines, just morally tainted vaccines.

Second, it is only becoming apparent which recently developed medical treatments are made or tested with the use of fetal cell lines derived from abortion. Seems that quite a few may be developed or tested using abortion derived cell lines. As that knowledge grows I would expect that Catholic objectors to participation in the remote evils of these products would want to abstain from all of them to follow their consciences. So refusing a particular Covid vaccine while unknowingly participating in remote moral evil by taking a compromised aspirin pill is not an inconsistency problem of the objector but a lack of information problem of the objector. More information will allow them to be more consistent. An informed conscience is required for that conscience to act correctly. No sin if the facts aren't known: no deliberate inconsistency if the facts aren't known. Let the facts be known.

It may be that using aborted baby fetal cell lines is close to a norm in medicine. That would be a terrible thing. It may be that we are participating in remote moral evil every time we turn around. We should object to that when we find out about instances of that, either by refusing such medicines in the future or demanding untainted medicines. There are enough Catholics, enough Catholic doctors and nurses, enough Catholic hospitals, and enough Catholic medical schools to make changes. We do not have to complacently participate even remotely in moral evil. We can resist, some of us by refusal. It is a moral choice for Catholics to do so.

That’s the problem with this particular objection. If a person says they object to using the vaccine on the grounds that fetuses were used somewhere in the development then they would need to show that they attempted in the past to learn which other medicines fall into that category. And why hasn’t the church taken initiative on that? The church could have done the research and published the list of medicines. Also, that person could be doing that right now. If they aren’t, I don’t believe that is really their reason.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Doesn't matter (which?) side you fall on, clearly a whole lot of people, who know the word quite well, aren't buying it.

This.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Unless you're an anarchist, this doesn’t really make any sense.

Christian's refused to proclaim Caesar is Lord, then throw a pinch of incense into the little fire thing as Roman soldiers went around.

Why would they refuse? Just a few seconds of their time and they could have gone about their lives... They didn't even have to believe their own words as they said them, they just had to go through a few motions and they were home free...

This begs the question, what is the worship that government was demanding, that Christians gave their lives refusing, if not even believing the words was necessary?

It's just following the law at the time, a law meant to root out "enemies of the state", or in other words root out those who wouldn't blindly obey that state...

Not much different today, this vaccine is likewise being used to root out those who won't blindly obey government authorities .. one hasn't any need to look very far to see just how this vaccine is being used, and I, like those early Christians, will not give my blind obedience to the state...

Good luck, because this is a hill I'm happy to die on.

 

[tstor]

Christian's refused to proclaim Caesar is Lord, then throw a pinch of incense into the little fire thing as Roman soldiers went around.

No one is asking you to proclaim anyone as Lord.

Not much different today, this vaccine is likewise being use to root out those who won't blindly obey government authorities .. one hasn't any need to look very far to see just how this vaccine is being used, and I, like those early Christians, will not give my blind obedience to any state...

Again, no one is asking for your blind obedience. All of the information about the vaccines are publicly available. Do you have a valid reason for not wanting to get vaccinated? If so, what is that valid reason? Blindly rejecting the vaccine isn't a more noble pursuit.

 

[Hazelelponi]

No one is asking you to proclaim anyone as Lord.

Your missing the point - they don't have to. The action alone proclaims it...

 

[tstor]

Your missing the point - they don't have to. The action alone proclaims it...

The action of what?

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

If you're going to be unvaccinated, I would like to at least know in advance, so I can keep you away from my family.

Will "Unclean! Unclean!" do?

 

[Strathos]

Will "Unclean! Unclean!" do?

What gives you the right to endanger other people's children?

 

[Sparagmos]

Anything that demands total submission without exception, is demanding worship. That is my view of what it means to worship according to Scripture.

I submit to God, therefore I, in body and spirit, worship God, with my thoughts/mind, with my actions, and with my heart.

The government is right now demanding my worship, in ways not even God asks of us.

They are asking we consider not the facts as we know them; they ask that we don't consider the future; they ask we don't consider our personal circumstances, our health, and evaluate risk versus reward. They demand only blind obedience and are moving to punish all who do not give it.

I couldn't worship God if that was what God demanded of me so how can I take a vaccine into my body, a temple of the living God, according to that level of blind unthinking obedience?

Any person or any government that demands it of me is evil and under such conditions it becomes a sin for me.

Informed consent, given all the facts without outside coercion is the only way i am able to even consider taking any vaccine. By demanding I give a government what God never demanded I give HIM, is asking what I cannot give because they are asking my worship.

I questioned God, put God under a microscope and asked God to prove Himself God before I would submit to His authority. Apparently we aren't being allowed the same level of scepticism with this vaccine.

If this vaccine is the best thing since sliced bread, it'll bear itself out under scrutiny and need never be forced. If not, then it's an evil being perpetuated on innocent people, which I cannot abide.

This post is so far fetched, especially coming from a conservative Christian. Submission to authority is central to the traditional world view of conservative Christians, who also have a history of using government authority to force their morality on the populous. Gay marriage should be illegal but employers should not be able to mandate vaccines?

 

[topher694]

This.

Fixed... thanks

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Fixed... thanks

"This" meant agreement with your statement.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Gay marriage should be illegal but employers should not be able to mandate vaccines?

Works for me.