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A bit troubled

_Believer_

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I became a member of a small church not long after I was baptized, and at first, things were going great. I couldn't ask for a better place to go. After a while though, things went down hill and I started finding that the pastor was changing. Not only in his demeanor, but the way he preached, and the messages he conveyed. The last thing I was present to disagree with though is what really has me worried. He started up a contest in the church that whoever brought the most people to church in 6 months would win a big screen TV. This is where I need some input and other viewpoints. Was it wrong of me to look down on the idea? In my eyes, it's nothing short of gambling, and just a way to fill the pews (and in turn the collection plates). I think that if any "contest" were to be held to those specs, the prize should be knowing that you helped someone find God, and that one day you will be able to see them in Heaven. Can anyone help me out with this? Should I find another church, or should I look past all the money sermons and contests?
 

Goodbook

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The head of the church is Christ, not your pastor! Find another church! Sounds like 'prosperity gospel' not the gospel of Jesus Christ. Don't be deceived!!

Jesus said 'Beware of false prophets, they come to you in sheeps clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.'

Paul wrote in his letters to Phillipians, I point to chapter 3, especially verse 18-20
(For many walk, of who I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
 
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L

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If I were you I would find another church. It might take time to find the right one, but even I (being a new Christian myself) know that what the pastor at your church is doing isn't right. I'm currently searching for a new church myself and if, after being encouraged to join with one, I found out all I was worth was a chance for someone to get a TV I would be very bothered. It sounds like the pastor is seeing dollar signs instead of people...
 
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Saved_n_kept

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Hi Believer,

Yes I think you have good reason to be "a bit troubled." Like Leapling, I am concerned that the pastor, and presumably those who share the oversight of the congregation, should even consider such a method of outreach.

The bible says,

"And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." Act 2:47b


encourages us to

" Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest." Mat 9:38


and promises

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." Joh 12:32

I would look for a church that does His work in His way!

God bless,

Brian. :)
 
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_Believer_

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I completely agree with all of you guys. It's almost like someone flipped a light switch. At first, he seemed to me like a devout Christian man, and a very generous person, but almost over night he stopped preaching about Jesus and what he did for us to what WE could do to benefit the "CHURCH". I felt almost that he was speaking directly to (or about) my family in one sermon. You see, when I was working, I would always make big donations to the church, but after I got laid off and couldn't give more than a few dollars a week, he started changing his attitude towards me and my wife. I didn't like that at all, needless to say. Another thing that has me a bit nervous is that due to my appearance (tattoos and such), my congregation made it quite clear that it would be hard for me to find another church that would welcome me as readily as they did. Although I know this isn't true because of some of the people I have met (my dad was part of the Heaven's Saints Motorcycle Ministry; and part of the Down The Road Biker Church), and places I have gone it isn't true. But at the same time, it still hurts to hear people say things like that after they were the ones who told me that my tattoos were gone in God's eyes after my baptism. I think I may have ranted a little much. But thanks for the help and advise guys =] It's greatly appreciated.
 
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Saved_n_kept

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"But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

You do just that brother and He will guide you!
 
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rvsl

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Hi Believer

Find a new church mate. This one isn't for you. Eventhough we are complete strangers, I find it disturbing that our brothers and sisters are too ready to judge based on your tattoos.

Also you sound like a hardworking responsible man, and you deserve better treatment. Maybe you are being told you won't find acceptance anywhere else because they don't want you to leave.

God Bless mate.

Sidenote: I'm thinking of getting another tatt in April, any suggestion?
 
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Goodbook

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Unfortunately there are lots of these churches around. I went to one last Sunday, out of curiousity.
I tell you what happened. The church was based in a rented building. I have no problem with that..many church gatherings take place in school halls for example. This on was held in a sports stadium, run by a trust, which is funded by pokies. As I went in, they had ushers in t-shirts saying 'heal the sick' 'love thy neighbour' 'feed the poor' etc. I thought 'ok, they like to proclaim things on t-shirts, and they are Jesus words, no problem'. So I went in, and they were welcoming and friendly. As you might expect. They had a worship band. I'd been in enough churches to accept this.. as one friend had invited me to a christian music festival before, where bands played all types of music, even rock, with christian lyrics. Not that you could really hear them above the noise. The band was very loud, and the lyrics were all about worshipping God ,how he was the most high, we bow down to noone except him, etc. But a thought entered my mind, which God were these people really worshipping? I couldn't recall any mention of Jesus.
Then one of the pastors came up and everyone clapped and cheered. It was more like a performance and a show than a service. He welcomed us visitors, and urged people to accept pamphlets and leaflets which talked about 'heart for the harvest' and tithing over and above 10 percent of your income. The tithing seemed really important to him. I'm not sure where this money went. It was implied this went out into the community. We were shown photos, as evidence, but I didn't see anyone come up and testify anything. Then he said how his life changed because of Jesus, but didn't specify how. Maybe he was more 'successful'. I don't know.
Another person came up and said she had some prizes of christian music to give away. hmm. Then some more songs, a short prayer, the offering (in a BUCKET), glossy pamphlets handed out, prayer for 'financial breakthrough', talk about people being 'impacted'. Impacted??? Was that even in the bible?
Then the pastor came out and did her sermon. But before this, she warmed eveyone up (or hyped) by asking half the crowd to sing something really fast, and the other half to try and beat it. Some Christian song everyone knew, I can't remember, 'lord something'. She first talked about her life and how she wanted to get married and kept hinting to her boyfriend, saying her message was just to be happy and wait on what God wants to give you TODAY. Then it was like she'd looked up all the words of 'Today' in a concordance of the Bible, and started quoting a whole lot of verses from all over the bible that had the word 'today' in it. To stop worrying about the future, or the past, and to just live in the present moment. I thought to myself. She might as well just tell people to read 'the power of now'.
Then we had to sit through lots of commercials. Yes, 'Christian' ads. And we had 'intermission' for coffee and biscuits, not communion. They were adverstising 'loud' retreats, how fun God was, for teens with lots of 'doof doof' music. Yay God.
Also an ad for conferences, where you PAID to hear people preach the gospel. I don't know if this was Jesus' gospel. And then the ultimate theme, which was this month was for making a commitment to give money to the church. 'harvest' they called it.
Then finally, for the rest of the service, there was entertainment by a comedy group.
I just could not sit through this. I left. I had come to worship God, not people.


I think new believers especially need to be aware of these false churches. Their Bible isn't the Holy Bible, and the more I read, the more I think they base their church on an american best-selling book about running the church as a business for profit. Do not be deceived! It is called 'the purpose driven church'...
 
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heymikey80

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It sounds to me like someone's misguided as to how to do evangelism.

However, it's also easy to get mis-led into the motivations behind this situation.

It may be worthwhile to probe, "Well, what circumstances led to this challenge?"

In some cases the church gets gifts that it can't use. My church was once offered a pool table, and we had no space for it, so we politely declined. On the other hand, I'd trade a pool table for the salvation of even one person. But I could conceive of something happening you describe if an electronics store wanted to donate say, a flat screen TV to a church that didn't have any church grounds to store it.

I wouldn't consider this a valid method of evangelism, in either event. But not all people are wise about how things appear to others. The only way to inform them of the situation is to say so.
 
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_Believer_

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That is the one thing I can't seem to get my head around. Do the people who are only in ministry for money not realize they will not get into the gates of Heaven by spreading the Word if they themselves do not believe it and keep it Holy? I'm not trying to pass judgment here, because I'm nothing but a man, and I couldn't judge anyone (and I KNOW I couldn't be as forgiving and fair minded as Jesus). But it still bothers me to see churches that are caught up in the financial aspect. To top it off, there are many people who have been Christians all their lives, and are (for lack of a better word) naive enough to believe it when someone proclaims that you can only get to heaven by "sewing your $1000 seed". I pray that everyone will see the light and stop the blasphemy before it gets any worse.
 
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heymikey80

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The struggle occurs often among people whose living depends on the preaching of the Word. They're supposed to be supported by the church -- and the church members are not always so forthcoming with their support. It results in a church that's underfunded, and the pastor is often charged with the responsibility what to do to "keep it afloat". Pastors aren't intended to be good at understanding finances.

Frankly, sweepstakes for invitations is extreme. I think the most extreme I ever ran across was a youth pastor dyeing his hair.
 
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_Believer_

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Update: I have made amends with the pastor of the church I used to go to. I said some very blunt things regarding my opinion the last time we spoke, so I figured it is better to be friends and make it right, although I do not want (nor intend) to go to church there.
 
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Saved_n_kept

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but I still find myself worrying about the future of the church and pastor.

That's a good way to be. Perhaps you could pray for them......and don't worry, just hand it all over to Him who said ......."I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat 16:18b

God bless.
 
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