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Are you truly taking a position that asserts Holy Scriptures were not available to churches after the apostles all went home to the Lord?Whether Sola Scriptura means "the Bible is the only authority" or "the Bible is the only infallible authority", the followings should be enough to refute it:
Please consider:
- The Bible was not put under one cover until the Councils of Hippo (AD 393) and 3rd Council of Carthage (AD 397) accepted the official list of books.
- Not for over 1000 years after these early Councils was the printing press invented (~1450), so Bible manuscripts were quite rare and costly before the printing press came about.
Between AD 33 and 1450 then, how did most people learn about the contents of Scripture, and who was the authoritative figure for the early Church during these centuries?
(One Protestant defined Sola Scriptura as the position that "Scripture alone is your sole authority for your faith and life". Another Protestant defined it as "The Bible is the only infallible authority" after people are refuting it. This is like keep moving the goal post in a soccer game so that your opponent won't be able to score a goal.)
Luke 24: NASBYou seem to be going to a lot of trouble to avoid a simple question: how do you know that the Book of Psalms is really supposed to be in the Canon? Where in the Bible does it say that?
1Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes,How do you know that 2 Corinthians is really supposed to be part of the Canon?
What did Jesus use to prove such traditions were false?What Christ hammered was the false traditions of his days, not Church traditions.
All your statements make me wonder whether you have been reading and thinking carefully or not. I haven't come across worse arguments.
Too bad for Scott...My 5th grade Sunday school class could have answered that question. No wonder he flew the coop for somewhere he could feel secure someone else giving him answers.Jason0047, you reminded me of how Dr Scott Hahn was trying to defend Sola Scriptura:
The students were supposed to ask him a question or two. He said, "Can I first ask you a question, Professor Hahn? You know how Luther really had two slogans, not just sola fide, but the second slogan he used to revolt against Rome was sola Scriptura, the Bible alone. My question is, 'Where does the Bible teach that?'"
I looked at him with a blank stare. I could feel sweat coming to my forehead. I used to take pride in asking my professors the most stumping questions, but I never heard this one before. And so I heard myself say words that I had sworn I'd never speak; I said, "John, what a dumb question." He was not intimidated. He look at me and said, "Give me a dumb answer."
I said, "All right, I'll try." I just began to wing it. I said, "Well, Timothy 3:16 is the key: 'All Scripture is inspired of God and profitable for correction, for training and righteousness, for reproof that the man of God may be completely equipped for every good work....'"
He said, "Wait a second, that only says that Scripture is inspired and profitable; it doesn't say ONLY Scripture is inspired or even better, only Scripture's profitable for those things. We need other things like prayer," and then he said, "What about 2 Thessalonians 2:15?" I said, "What's that again?" He said, "Well, there Paul tells the Thessalonians that they have to hold fast, they have to cling to the traditions that Paul has taught them either in writing or by word of mouth." Whoa! I wasn't ready. I said, "Well, let's move on with the questions and answers; I'll deal with this next week. Let's go on."
Click to Read the Whole Story
Yeah, what they believe doesn't make any sense. Here is a graphic I created yesterday that helps to illustrate how God actually communicated with man through out history.
How do you know that 2 Corinthians is really supposed to be part of the Canon? Where in the Bible does it say that?
So you admit that you don't really have any Scriptural way of knowing what the Canon of Scripture is.
Of course there is clearly a Scriptural way, as I have shown repeatedly. For it is certainly
incontrovertibly Scriptural that a body of wholly inspired-of-God authoritative writings was discerned and established
Woah, you don't believe God can say anything at all to people today? One less reason for me to believe in sola scriptura.
God says a lot within His Word that pertains to our life and in living godly. What else more do you need? While God can answer prayer (if it is His sovereign will), God does not give us new words of revelation in the church age because we have the perfect needed revelation for us today (i.e. the Bible).
Most who try to add to the Bible usually contradict Scripture in some way. In fact, this is what breeds biblical cults, etc.
He is actually and factually correct. See Luke 24:44-50Are you sure? Do you know what you are talking about?
Your argument should be based on scripture, and also it must not contradict history.
But you made up your own version of history when you said "that a body of wholly inspired-of-God authoritative writings was discerned and established before a church even existed"
The Law, Prophets and Writings were established long before this in Temple Judaism. Jesus and His apostles demonstrate this.The fact is that the Bible was not put under one cover until the Councils of Hippo (AD 393) and 3rd Council of Carthage (AD 397) accepted the official list of books. Between AD 33 to AD 397, the faithful had no access to the Bible, so who was the authority?
Too bad for Scott...My 5th grade Sunday school class could have answered that question. No wonder he flew the coop for somewhere he could feel secure someone else giving him answers.
What are you expecting exactly? Or is your point we cannot know what is of God without a supreme Magicsterium?You've done no such thing. Your attempts to have all involved using quotes from the Bible, which begs the question.
I don't know about new doctrine, but can God talk about personal matters for example with people in your view? Because saying 'God only talks with written scripture' sound like he can't talk of anything.
Luke and Acts? You picked the two 'worst' examples as both have an introduction of Luke telling Theophilus he had direct contact with apostolic witnesses (Paul and others) and in Acts was actually mentioned in the narrative.How do you know that either of those two books are actually Apostolic?
Then prove, using Scripture alone, that the Epistle of James was written by one of the Apostles.Nonsense
So you believe that Luke is Apostolic merely because it says so in Luke? And you have the same reason for believing Acts? That begs the question.Luke and Acts? You picked the two 'worst' examples as both have an introduction of Luke telling Theophilus he had direct contact with apostolic witnesses (Paul and others) and in Acts was actually mentioned in the narrative.
I think you really need to address his response which was a rebuttal of your assertion. Here it is:Rather, I continue to evidence an insistence on rational thought. Before you can talk about whether or not the works of Moses and the Apostles are of divine origin, you have to correctly know which works they are. So again, how do you know which books are really Apostolic? You seem very intent on ignoring that very reasonable question, and to cast absurd aspersions on my motives as a way to avoid it merely confirms the irrationality of your position.
How did believers know that books by men such as Moses and Isaiah were of Divine origin? Show me where an infallible magisterium was essential for correctly ascertaining what is of God and I will stop refuting your sophistry here.
1James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,Then prove, using Scripture alone, that the Epistle of James was written by one of the Apostles.
It's not oral tradition if someone is actually reading from a written document.
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