A biblical approach to secular music

Tom White

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I'm not inventing "rules" I'm telling what the Bible says. To obey God is not legalism. I don't love all kinds of music, I only love Christian music (not all kinds of though). I'm jealous/zealous for God, like he is for me - only he is worthy of all our love and he is to have the glory, not some artist.

The Bible does not say "secular" music is bad, that listening to it is sinful, or any other such nonsense. That's your stupid idea and by trying to push it on people here you are being a bully.

Let me know when you're repentant. Until then, goodbye.
 
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Jonathan95

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The Bible does not say "secular" music is bad, that listening to it is sinful, or any other such nonsense. That's your stupid idea and by trying to push it on people here you are being a bully.

Let me know when you're repentant. Until then, goodbye.

I'm not being a bully, and what I have said is based on the Bible. Secular music can lead to bondages of different kinds. It appeals to the evil nature most of the time.
 
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Zoness

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Reading this thread, I understand why there is so much disenfranchisement between Christians and young skeptics like myself. I understand the desire to adhere to Christian dogma but jumping at shadows needlessly on petty issues seems a bit...intense.
 
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Jonathan95

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Reading this thread, I understand why there is so much disenfranchisement between Christians and young skeptics like myself. I understand the desire to adhere to Christian dogma but jumping at shadows needlessly on petty issues seems a bit...intense.

It's not dogma, and this is a serious issue.
 
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Zoness

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It's not dogma, and this is a serious issue.

It's obscurantist bantering at best; most Christians would not argue this adamantly about this issue. Plus it is dogma in the way you present, a strict Christian formula for dealing with "dangerous elements" presented externally to Christians.

Issues like this are exactly why Christianity has PR issues in the West. Instead of going on the key points of love and service to others, you are worried about how evil secular music is. That's people don't take this stuff or those authoritarian branches of religion as seriously anymore.
 
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Jonathan95

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Instead of going on the key points of love and service to others, you are worried about how evil secular music is. That's people don't take this stuff or those authoritarian branches of religion as seriously anymore.

While some stuff may be more important than others, the other doesn't necessarily have to exclude the other.
 
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Zoness

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While some stuff may be more important than others, the other doesn't necessarily have to exclude the other.

But of all issues you could possibly pick on, you pick this? Seriously?

Not how to minister your religion's message to the masses? How to serve the poor and love your neighbor? etc.

Unless I am mistaken, those are pretty key tenets in your faith.
 
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Jonathan95

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But of all issues you could possibly pick on, you pick this? Seriously?

Not how to minister your religion's message to the masses? How to serve the poor and love your neighbor? etc.

Unless I am mistaken, those are pretty key tenets in your faith.

I believe secular music is a big issue, so that's a bit why. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16
 
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PaxThroughX

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I believe secular music is a big issue, so that's a bit why. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

That still doesn't mean that secular is bad or sinful.
 
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PaxThroughX

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In my 1st post I have proven that much of it is sinful

Not really? Hey! At a Toby Mac concert, everyone is clapping for the artist. That means that christian music is sinful to. So we don't need to listen to any music at all! In the end, we praise the musician for what he did. So that also means we should ban talent shows etc.

P.S. Klove is satanic music in disguise, hence the definition that he is the 'great deceiver in music." LOL!

EDIT:
http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u301086-e82146/

(you completely ignored my reply to your biblical opinion based article you have there so read my blog atleast.)
 
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Jonathan95

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Not really? Hey! At a Toby Mac concert, everyone is clapping for the artist. That means that christian music is sinful to. So we don't need to listen to any music at all! In the end, we praise the musician for what he did. So that also means we should ban talent shows etc.

P.S. Klove is satanic music in disguise, hence the definition that he is the 'great deceiver in music." LOL!

EDIT:
http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u301086-e82146/

(you completely ignored my reply to your biblical opinion based article you have there so read my blog atleast.)

No, Christian music isn't sinful. People don't clap hands for all worship leaders etc.

I don't know about Christian concerts, but on many secular concerts you have people crying and screaming for their "idol". That's idolatry.

Which reply are you talking about, that I haven't replied to?

EDIT: I read your blog post now.
 
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Tom White

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I don't know about Christian concerts, but on many secular concerts you have people crying and screaming for their "idol". That's idolatry.

If it's really an idol for them, then it's sin for them.

What they do with music is unrelated to what I do with music, which is enjoy it immensely as a God-given blessing.

It is wrong that you are trying to call me and others out for enjoying a blessing as if that is sinful. It's the same nonsense as those who oppose alcohol (made by non-Christians!), or sex, or guns or tobacco or whatever: demonizing the wrong thing.

Anyway, I'm off to enjoy my "secular" music now, without any unnecessary repentance to stop me. I'll leave you to your bullying and legalism.
 
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Jonathan95

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If it's really an idol for them, then it's sin for them.

What they do with music is unrelated to what I do with music, which is enjoy it immensely as a God-given blessing.

It is wrong that you are trying to call me and others out for enjoying a blessing as if that is sinful. It's the same nonsense as those who oppose alcohol (made by non-Christians!), or sex, or guns or tobacco or whatever: demonizing the wrong thing.

Anyway, I'm off to enjoy my "secular" music now, without any unnecessary repentance to stop me. I'll leave you to your bullying and legalism.

Opposing guns, alcohol (depending on what it's used for etc) and tobacco is Biblical. Especially guns - read the sermon on the mount for example.
 
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McMatt

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LMAO this guy is crazy. I will fully disprove you in one post. Couldn't read the whole thing, too much fear mongering zealot written in it, but I skimmed enough to get an idea.

1) God is truth, right? Of course you're going to say yes. So then all truth comes from god right? Again, why question it. So if someone who is not a christian says something that is true, that truth comes from god - in all logic. Majority of today's music speaks truths about things, aside from your hip-hop "artists" that are all about "dem b*tches and hoes" which truly is utter garbage. In fact, a lot of rock music has biblical undertones even though the artist is not a christian. God also imbues everyone with talents and gifts, not just the christian individuals.

2) There is no 'secular' or 'christian' music. The christian music thing was created by the church (not god) for the church (very money hungry organization at the top of christianity). The label of secular music was created by the church to belittle that entire section of music so they could make cheap knock-offs and make a large profit off it.

3) I don't know if you covered this already or not, but when was the last time you went to a movie theatre? This is an area churches are hypocritical. If you have watched ANY movies made by a non christian individual, then that is wrong. Most churches don't abide by their own logic, they just change the criteria for the movies they watch (is there swearing, do you see boobies, etc). That's a slippery slope to fall on.

4)Christian music sucks. That is the worst part of it all. It lacks creativity, it lacks devotion, it lacks heart, and above all the words in it are just common practice. There is no passion or originality. These "artists" are making half-a$$ music in gods name with the talent (or lack thereof lol) god gave them. Which is better? Musicians mastering their craft and making passionate music full of truths that are from god, or someone putting an album together in a week and a half with no effort, placing the "christian" stamp of approval on it and waiting for the cash cow to roll in.

5) The christian vs secular issue is part of what puts congregations in this big bubble that excludes anyone that is not christian. This is just not jesus-like

6) Worship music was derived from music of the 30's and 40's. Before the 1900's came around there was no such thing as christian music. It was all just music. Then record labels came out and some (now really, really rich) genius decided to profit off religion. Have you heard about the time that jesus went to the temple and tore the place apart because they were profiting off the temple by setting up a market?

7)Now with the genres of music we have today, that is just the strict evolution of musical instruments. If you have a problem with rock music, metal, folk, country, or anything of the sort because of the sound they produce, you should also condemn worship music and go off hitting a tree stump with a rock for your music. Keyboards weren't around way back when either

Conclusion: If god is the creator of all truths and all talents, then why shun someone's talent-filled truths. You are also crazy, narrow-minded, and a big part of why people turn away from the church. However, I don't blame your craziness on you. Chances are you went to the wrong church and that church brainwashed you. You probably had a big fire made of harry potter books you never read and knew nothing about at one point. Save your fear-mongering fingers the effort and write "The end cometh" on a cardboard sign and take to the street corners you schizophrenic
 
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PaxThroughX

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4)Christian music sucks. That is the worst part of it all. It lacks creativity, it lacks devotion, it lacks heart, and above all the words in it are just common practice. There is no passion or originality. These "artists" are making half-a$$ music in gods name with the talent (or lack thereof lol) god gave them. Which is better? Musicians mastering their craft and making passionate music full of truths that are from god, or someone putting an album together in a week and a half with no effort, placing the "christian" stamp of approval on it and waiting for the cash cow to roll in.

I don't know how many times I have to prove this to Christians.



Conclusion: If god is the creator of all truths and all talents, then why shun someone's talent-filled truths. You are also crazy, narrow-minded, and a big part of why people turn away from the church. However, I don't blame your craziness on you. Chances are you went to the wrong church and that church brainwashed you. You probably had a big fire made of harry potter books you never read and knew nothing about at one point. Save your fear-mongering fingers the effort and write "The end cometh" on a cardboard sign and take to the street corners you schizophrenic

To be honest, most to everybody holding this Christianize belief would not accept the criticism with open arms. They have an issue with themselves, not the music like they think they do. One Satanic "influenced," band can ruin a whole genre of music sad to say :/.
 
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PaxThroughX

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No, Christian music isn't sinful. People don't clap hands for all worship leaders etc.

I don't know about Christian concerts, but on many secular concerts you have people crying and screaming for their "idol". That's idolatry.

Than Christian music is sinful also, because that is the case here. Of course everyone goes into touchdown formation when a sloooow song is played. Is that not repetitive? Does God really like that?

I remember you were the reason I signed up on CF. It was because of your distant list of metal bands (you used) to listen to. I guess I can understand why, from your viewpoint, that you you disposed of them. However, I do not get how you can tell everyone else that it is wrong for them? You said you had angry issues, which isn't the case for everyone listening to metal. Sometimes its past experiences, or something along those lines.

I know, I know, you probably heard about Tim Lambesis. Still does not cut with generalizing all listeners.


Which reply are you talking about, that I haven't replied to?

It was more of a comment, but still in a necessary manner to be responded to. I asked for you to check out the thread I posted and to read the comments. You never told me if you still thought "Satan was the Choir Director," etc criteria.
EDIT: I read your blog post now.
What did you think of it?
 
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Jonathan95

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LMAO this guy is crazy. I will fully disprove you in one post. Couldn't read the whole thing, too much fear mongering zealot written in it, but I skimmed enough to get an idea.

To call someone crazy is not nice.


1) God is truth, right? Of course you're going to say yes. So then all truth comes from god right? Again, why question it. So if someone who is not a christian says something that is true, that truth comes from god - in all logic.

God is truth, yes. I'm not sure what you mean by "all truth comes from God" though. If you mean that all that is truth is inspired by God? Then, in a way, no. One can be gossiping, yet telling the truth, but it's still sinful.

In fact, a lot of rock music has biblical undertones even though the artist is not a christian. God also imbues everyone with talents and gifts, not just the christian individuals.

Just because some rock music has biblical undertones doesn't necessarily make it okay to listen to. "A little leaven leavens the whole lump." (Gal 5:9; 1 Cor 5:6 NKJV).

2) There is no 'secular' or 'christian' music. The christian music thing was created by the church (not god) for the church (very money hungry organization at the top of christianity). The label of secular music was created by the church to belittle that entire section of music so they could make cheap knock-offs and make a large profit off it.

All that produce Christian music might aren't doing it for the money at all, or not for the money only.

3) I don't know if you covered this already or not, but when was the last time you went to a movie theatre? This is an area churches are hypocritical. If you have watched ANY movies made by a non christian individual, then that is wrong. Most churches don't abide by their own logic, they just change the criteria for the movies they watch (is there swearing, do you see boobies, etc). That's a slippery slope to fall on.

The last time I went to a movie theatre was when I was going to listen to someone having a presentation talk about his business chain, related to what I study in High School.

I have watched movies, because I've had to, and not necessarily because I want. Or when I've been visiting someone, been watching a movie a bit to be polite.

Otherwise I don't watch movies by free will or so. Unless it's some christian movie/documentary (depending what it is about).

4)Christian music sucks. That is the worst part of it all. It lacks creativity, it lacks devotion, it lacks heart, and above all the words in it are just common practice. There is no passion or originality.

That's your opinion. How can music that invites The Holy Spirit have lack of devotion and heart?

Worship music isn't to be done to please the sinful nature of men, or to be pleasing to them, but pleasing to God. True worship music is spiritual, not carnal.

No passion you say? What about worship leaders crying as they pour out their love to God?

These "artists" are making half-a$$ music in gods name with the talent (or lack thereof lol) god gave them.

As I said above. All that produce Christian music might aren't doing it for the money at all, or not for the money only. One's talent must not necessarily be from God. There are rock artists or such that sacrifice their guitars to Satan or give their lives to him or such. I've heard that, and I've read about some famous music producer who talked said something about artists/groups making music with the intent of leading people to drugs, sex or so with their music.

Many people have been led to suicide attempts/sex/drugs or so as a result of listening to rock music or such. That proves the demonic influence it has.

Which is better? Musicians mastering their craft and making passionate music full of truths that are from god, or someone putting an album together in a week and a half with no effort, placing the "christian" stamp of approval on it and waiting for the cash cow to roll in.

Just because it has truths must not necessarily mean it's music pleasing to God or something that has good influence on people. It could still be carnal music. Regarding money and talent, read what I said above (in this post).

5) The christian vs secular issue is part of what puts congregations in this big bubble that excludes anyone that is not christian. This is just not jesus-like

To exclude someone from a congregation because he's not christian would not be Jesus-like, no. Someone said that "A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints."

If people don't want non-christians coming to their congregation, then those people in that congregation aren't true christians. (Luke 6:43 NKJV) “For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.

Those people aren't following Jesus Christ, or Paul (who followed Jesus).

"Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1 NKJV
Imitate me - other translation "follow me".

"For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:" 1 Peter 2:21 NKJV.

"He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." 1 John 2:6 NKJV

"walk" - basically "live".

6) Worship music was derived from music of the 30's and 40's. Before the 1900's came around there was no such thing as christian music. It was all just music. Then record labels came out and some (now really, really rich) genius decided to profit off religion. Have you heard about the time that jesus went to the temple and tore the place apart because they were profiting off the temple by setting up a market?

Yes I've heard when Jesus did that. Well one isn't to have a church because one wants to make money, but because one cares for people and wants people saved and the sheep to be fed and such.

7)Now with the genres of music we have today, that is just the strict evolution of musical instruments. If you have a problem with rock music, metal, folk, country, or anything of the sort because of the sound they produce, you should also condemn worship music and go off hitting a tree stump with a rock for your music. Keyboards weren't around way back when either

Just because keyboards weren't around back then doesn't mean they are wrong to use.

I don't condemn worship music that glorifies God.

Conclusion: If god is the creator of all truths and all talents, then why shun someone's talent-filled truths.

Regarding the statement that God is the creator all truths and all talents, read what I said above in this post. Every talent is not God-given. For example, someone being very good at thievery is not a God-given "talent".

You are also crazy, narrow-minded, and a big part of why people turn away from the church.

How am I a big part of why people turn from the church? One is not to strive to please men, but God. "For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:10 NKJV.

One aren't to use carnal means to attract people to church.

However, I don't blame your craziness on you. Chances are you went to the wrong church and that church brainwashed you. You probably had a big fire made of harry potter books you never read and knew nothing about at one point. Save your fear-mongering fingers the effort and write "The end cometh" on a cardboard sign and take to the street corners you schizophrenic

I haven't came to those conclusions by going to a church, but by reading the Bible and using my discernment and such.

Why would I write "The end cometh" - that's not real biblical evangelism.

Also, I'm not a schizophrenic. You have slandered me a few times now. You need to repent of this sin!
 
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