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A basic flaw in Partial Preterist interpretation

claninja

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So, in your opinion on Amillennialism, as well as others, there are 2 aspects of the 1,000 years. Symbolically it refers to the period of time between the 1st advent and satan's little season, in which he is bound. But in another aspect, it symbolically refers to the period between the 1st and 2nd comings in relation to the saints reigning in heaven.

This explanation is a little confusing, and maybe why many Amils explain the millennium as between the 1st and 2nd advent, in order not to get too dogmatic.

Notice even Anthony Hoekema doesn't believe the great apostasy, tribulation, fullness of Israel, gospel going to all nations, etc....are exclusively just in the short time of satan's little season, but are happening now, and thus Jesus could return at anytime. I would argue this is more related to the traditional Amil position
. This is the position that I was taught growing up in the CRC.


The “signs of the times” have both present and future relevance. Amillennialists believe that the return of Christ will be preceded by certain signs: for example, the preaching of the gospel to all the nations, the conversion of the fullness of Israel, the great apostasy, the great tribulation and the coming of the Antichrist. These signs, however, must not be thought of as referring exclusively to the time just preceding Christ’s return. They have been present in some sense from the very beginning of the Christian era and are present now.’ This means that we must always be ready for the Lord’s return and that we may never in our thoughts push the return of Christ off into the far-distant future." (A brief Sketch of Amillennial Eschatology).
 
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sovereigngrace

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I have been describing the typical Amil position. The reign in heaven is letting us know what the dead in Christ are doing during that period. As CG said: Amil often generalize that the thousand years relate to the intra-Advent period, but that does not negate the fact that they see a time at the end when Satan will be released before the second coming.
 
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claninja

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Again I agree with just about all of this.

So then it is your opinion that satan has been unable to deceive anyone for the last 2,000 years in order to persecute or come against the church then, correct?
 
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claninja

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Does not the typical Amil position believe that Christ could come at any moment, and thus we must always be ready?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Again I agree with just about all of this.

So then it is your opinion that satan has been unable to deceive anyone for the last 2,000 years in order to persecute or come against the church then, correct?

This truth relates to the Gentiles as a whole. It is a generality! But individuals can still be deceived by Satan. This is not a contradiction. It is repeated throughout the OT and the NT. It is telling us that the Gentiles are no longer ignorant. A light has shone on them for 2000 years, giving them the opportunity to see and believe.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Does not the typical Amil position believe that Christ could come at any moment, and thus we must always be ready?

Typically yes. But most of us believe there will be a notable and wide-scale intensification of persecution of the Church before Jesus comes. To what degree and scale none of us truly knows.
 
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DavidPT

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The description in heaven is just showing us what is happing in heaven while Satan is curtailed on earth. But the heavenly reign is unaffected by Satan's little season.


What could make sense if Revelation 20:4 supported it, the thousand years are meaning the NT church era as Amils have proposed. But that no one continues to reign a thousand years after they have died, though, thus no contradiction to reigning a thousand years, but would be a contradiction if they are still reigning a thousand years during satan's little season. And when the thousand years expire, the saved still alive at the time are basically on their own, thus are made war with, then overcome, and some killed, by the beast during the 42 month reign. In order to do what? To test them, to make them white like the following suggests.

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days

Unfortunately, Revelation 20:4 doesn't allow for the 42 month reign of the beast after the thousand years. But if it did, and that if I were Amil, I see the above making far better sense than what Amils typically propose, thus this would be the direction I would be trying to go in if it were me and that I was Amil.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Not so! You are forcing your flawed Premil teaching on the Amil understanding of the beast and the millennium, and then rejecting it as untenable. That doesn't work. That is why it doesn't fit. Amils believe that the beast and Satan are bound in spiritual chains within a spiritual prison during the thousand years. This limits the scale of their influence, compared to before the cross, but does not prevent them deceiving or hurting those who want to accept their lies and evil.

The 42 months correlates with Satan's little season.
 
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Davy

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However... each one of those declared Amill positions do NOT... agree with God's Word as written.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
KJV


What? You mean Peter said Satan is STILL WALKING ABOUT, seeking whom he may devour??

As I have said before, men's doctrine of Preterism reveals how deep in deception that men can create for themselves.
 
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claninja

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Typically yes. But most of us believe there will be a notable and wide-scale intensification of persecution of the Church before Jesus comes. To what degree and scale none of us truly knows.

I don't know about "most", but I would agree many do have a heavy interest in end times stories. I wouldn't be so surprised if Amils are beginning to take a page out Premils speculative interpretation of Revelation.
 
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claninja

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What is the purpose of the deceiving? To persecute the church

Revelation 20:7-9 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore. And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

The persecution was occurring as early as the 1st century.

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10 All this is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment. And so you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire. He will inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.

the purpose of satan's persecution, under God's authority, of the church was to produce endurance, hope, and grow the faith of the true Church

2 thessalonians 2:3-4 We are obligated to thank God for you all the time, brothers, as is fitting, because your faith is growing more and more, and your love for one another is increasing. That is why we boast among God’s churches about your perseverance and faith in the face of all the persecution and affliction you are enduring.

Romans 5:3 Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope

Thus I would argue satan's little season should be associated with his casting out of heaven, for that is when His time is short.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.

Revelation 20:3 And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

Unless do you believe satan has 2 little seasons?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Wrong. This relates to the end.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Can an incarcerated prisoner still kill, steal or destroy?
 
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Davy

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Preterist wrongly believe the "little season" idea applies only to the time in Rev.20 after Satan is loosed.

The short time of Rev.12 is for the coming tribulation prior to Christ's Millennial reign of Rev.20, and it's easy to prove.

Rev 12:9-12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.


12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV


That reveals the "short time" after Satan is cast out of the heavenly is for the time of great tribulation just prior to His 2nd coming to gather His Church.
 
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Davy

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Can an incarcerated prisoner still kill, steal or destroy?

Satan is not bound in his pit prison yet.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV
 
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Davy

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Satan being cast out of heaven refers to the end and not the cross?

Actually, BOTH ideas are not likely our Lord Jesus' meaning...

In John 12:31 Jesus said now the prince of this world will be cast out. That is traditionally thought to mean at the cross. I don't think so, because remember what Peter said about Satan still walking about seeking to devour, so we can't apply that to mean Satan being cast out of this world. It has to mean our Lord was pointing to some other event.

Lo and behold, Jesus said in John 14:30 that hereafter, meaning after the cross, the prince of this world 'cometh'. The Rev.12:7 forward event links to this I strongly believe. It is about the future when Satan and his angels are cast out of the heavenly dimension down to our earthly dimension, which is what will cause the time of great tribulation upon Christ's Church.

So that can't be about the time of the cross, nor the time after the thousand years of Rev.20. It can only be about the time starting with the tribulation, which is just before the end of this present world.
 
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claninja

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Jesus said satan would be cast out the cross

John 12:21-33 Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” He said this to indicate the kind of death He was going to die.

Jesus said satan would be coming after the cross.

John 14:30 I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming, and he has no claim on Me

Lo and behold, revelation 12 ties both together, satan is cast out heaven at the ascension of Christ and thrown to earth where he persecutes the people of God.
 
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Davy

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Jesus indeed defeated the devil on His cross, and that sealed the ultimate prophecy of Satan's fate to perish in the lake of fire. But Peter in 1 Peter 5:8 showed Satan was not bound, nor cast out of this world yet at the cross.

Jesus said satan would be coming after the cross.

John 14:30 I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming, and he has no claim on Me

The KJV...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.

KJV

That "Hereafter" is in the NT manuscripts. It points to after the cross. And indeed, after the cross our Lord Jesus appeared and spoke with His disciples for a short period afterwards. That moves the event of Satan "cometh" to some time after the cross.

Lo and behold, revelation 12 ties both together, satan is cast out heaven at the ascension of Christ and thrown to earth where he persecutes the people of God.

The actual time Rev.12:7 forward shows when Satan is cast down to the earth is for the tribulation. The event of Archangel Michael making a "stand" in Daniel 12:1 is in association with that Rev.12:7 war. And what follows in Dan.12:1 is the time of trouble the world has never seen before, nor ever will again, i.e., the tribulation.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Satan is not bound in his pit prison yet.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

Answer the question: Can an incarcerated prisoner still kill, steal or destroy?
 
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