Alive Again (# 118)
"No real stature". An evil eye. I wish I could have put it nicer but you judge them by your own standard. If you compare against Paul, everyone is going to fall short. There are many Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, etc. that we're not aware of. Many others we are, assuming you believe in this. Even if you don't, rest assured, their are. God chooses the servant and the job. Who are we to question their qualifications?
but you judge them by your own standard.
Youve made a fair point and I guess that I should have rephrased my statement or at least added some qualification; it would be pretty hard to measure any of us against Paul but my point was that I have never heard of Don Piper and probably much the same over the years with many of the others who have made similar claims, so when their compared to those of the academy they understandably have little if any weight and as such it is up to them to prove their credentials to us.
There have been occassions where I have heard individuals make similar claims and even though they were known to me but as I considered them to be generally flakey I simply disregarded their claims - nothing gained and certainly nothing lost!
When it comes to the many
apostles,
prophets and
evangelists who are out there, I place the same stipulation on them, if they want to speak into my life then they will have to first prove themselves. The same goes for anyone else be they medicos, technical specialists, accountants, Christian politicians or whatever, it will be up to them to prove that I should put my trust in their services and if I am not convinced with their validity then I can just as easily go somewhere else.
Who are we to question their qualifications?
I would say all of us should be especially if we are in a position of influence!
If someone comes along who places an undue amount of emphasis on any doctorate or two in Theology that they may hold in an attempt to prove their point, I will always want to know where it was obtained and if in my opinion the qualification was not worth the paper it was written on then I wont place much weight on what they have to say its up to them to prove themselves to me.
Even though I hold some men in the highest regard who are held in high (though a balanced) stature such as with Gordon Fee, who as an Exegetical Scholar probably has no contemporary equal so when he speaks I tend to listen even when in my opinion he is wrong; when it comes to any of his positions that are based on Theology I tend not to place as much weight on what he has to say as this is not one of his strengths which he admits to himself. The same goes for other very fine men such as DA Carson and John Piper as these men have made marvellous strides in a number of Theological areas and the same goes for them, when they speak I listen; when it comes to their teachings that are in my opinion tainted by Calvinism I simply disregard these aspects. I also have the utmost respect for the person and work of Jerome Murphy-OConnor who has undertaken a lot of detailed archaeological research into ancient Corinth, but when it comes to his Theological work on 1 Corinthians I place little if any weight on
Cardinal Murphy-OConnors work and who knows, in his case it may be to my own detriment.
It is you that are at an impasse.
Well its not possible for one person to have an impasse when debating an issue as an impasse must be between two or more parties or maybe it could relate to an internal conflict which one cannot resolve; as we have an obvious disagreement on this issue an impasse has been reached but of course a forum such as this allows for some interesting interaction.
You have a predisposition to a judgment against it and now you claim the Holy Spirit told you something opposite of what many others have heard.
I would say more than just a predisposition.
Considering that the wealth of Christian academia (of which I am not a part) would agree with my position along with every Full Gospel church leader (except maybe for one) that I have ever related to here in Australia, I think that the onus is on these characters to prove their credentials to us and of course they cannot and here we have what is definitely an insurmountable and unsolvable impasse. If they cannot prove their claims and they cannot, then the paper that their claims are printed on is worthless.
I would like to think that everyone who reads this topic would be applying much the same principles as the ones that I have raised in this post.
Barry
