9/11 Truth for Dummies: Wrap Your Head Around One Thing

[LostMarbels]

Now consider the amount of thermite that would be required for the WTC's. Now consider that it would need a significant heat source and be already in a solid state (so as to be painted on) so that lateral "cuts" would be made.

This guy made lateral cuts perfectly fine without any of that. All of your arguments are covered if you'd bother to watch.

 

[LostMarbels]

From the NIST F.A.Q. (This is covered in greater detail in the NIST report):

"12. Was there enough gravitational energy present in the WTC towers to cause the collapse of the intact floors below the impact floors? Why weren’t the collapses of WTC 1 and WTC 2 arrested by the intact structure below the floors where columns first began to buckle?

You see? That has long ago been a moot point. One of the guys conducting the test admits on camera the report is falsified. http://www.christianforums.com/t7769222-8/#post64047616

Consider a typical floor .......


Btodd

Im reading what you said. Thank you.

 

[bhsmte]

Lost Marbels,

With all the people that would have to have knowledge of the conspiracy you are discussing, how have they all kept silent for 12 years?

 

[LostMarbels]

Lost Marbels,

With all the people that would have to have knowledge of the conspiracy you are discussing, how have they all kept silent for 12 years?

No. However most people wont watch what I site. There are interviews.

 

[Btodd]

You see? That has long ago been a moot point. One of the guys conducting the test admits on camera the report is falsified. http://www.christianforums.com/t7769222-8/#post64047616

Who did? If it's buried somewhere in that 18+ minute video, could you tell me the time marker, please?


Btodd

 

[bhsmte]

No. However most people wont watch what I site. There are interviews.

I don't understand your response.

Why is it, that no one has come forward that was involved in the conspiracy you are discussing and given specific knowledge of how the conspiracy was carried out?

 

[LostMarbels]

Who did? If it's buried somewhere in that 18+ minute video, could you tell me the time marker, please?


Btodd

5:13 clip of interveiw

 

[LostMarbels]

I don't understand your response.

You asked: With all the people that would have to have knowledge of the conspiracy you are discussing, how have they all kept silent for 12 years?

I stated: No. (Meaning no they haven't kept silent) However most people wont watch what I site. There are interviews.

Why is it, that no one has come forward that was involved in the conspiracy you are discussing and given specific knowledge of how the conspiracy was carried out?

They have, but the links get broken, files get lost, and the public ridicules them back into silence.

 

[Btodd]

Just watched it. That's Kevin Ryan, who worked at Underwriter's Laboratories, but not in the fire division...he was in water testing.

Not only was he not involved in the tests he speaks of, he also is not saying 'the entire report was falsified'. He is trying to claim that a particular test was, but again...he didn't even work in that department. He was summarily fired for using Underwriter's Laboratories name to promote his 9/11 conspiracy beliefs...which conspiracists just labeled as further proof of the conspiracy (predictable).

So, the information you were given about how many floors could be supported by a lower floor is not in question. It is valid, and that is why once the initial failure occurred, and the load could not be initially sustained, it would only get more and more impossible to sustain as mass accumulated with each additional floor that failed.


Btodd

 

[keith99]

You asked: With all the people that would have to have knowledge of the conspiracy you are discussing, how have they all kept silent for 12 years?

I stated: No. (Meaning no they haven't kept silent) However most people wont watch what I site. There are interviews.



They have, but the links get broken, files get lost, and the public ridicules them back into silence.

And they have these files and fail to keep copies?

Have you considered the broken links and lost files occur because the theory does not hold water and if the details stay available for too long they will get demolished in detail.

 

[Cearbhall]

Congratulations. You are no longer a dumbed-down American. You know what the rest of the world which gets a science education in high school knows: that the official 9/11 story is impossible. Not suspicious. Not full of questions. But flat-out, physically IMPOSSIBLE.

If any of this were true, you wouldn't have to tell anyone. It would be common knowledge. Your arrogance is astounding.

 

[LostMarbels]

And they have these files and fail to keep copies?

Have you considered the broken links and lost files occur because the theory does not hold water and if the details stay available for too long they will get demolished in detail.

Who knows? Who cares? I was just answering a question. I already know nothing I say is going to be right, and I don't have a stance to defend, so say what you will. An we all know how untrustworthy firemen are so it would be absurdly silly to trust their version of events. Especially over the governments point of view, because as we all know they truly have the best intention for all of us in their hearts, and would never deceive us.

All I'm interested are the loads placed on the TWC and how it affected the collapse. Some of it just does not add up to me. I read a couple of your posts and you seem to be able to give me some good insight, so I'm hoping that you will read some of the post I made concerning the collapse and give me your insight. I could care less about conspiracy. It still does not make sense.

 

[LostMarbels]

Just watched it. That's Kevin Ryan, who worked at Underwriter's Laboratories, but not in the fire division...he was in water testing.

Not only was he not involved in the tests he speaks of, he also is not saying 'the entire report was falsified'. He is trying to claim that a particular test was, but again...he didn't even work in that department. He was summarily fired for using Underwriter's Laboratories name to promote his 9/11 conspiracy beliefs...which conspiracists just labeled as further proof of the conspiracy (predictable).

So, the information you were given about how many floors could be supported by a lower floor is not in question. It is valid, and that is why once the initial failure occurred, and the load could not be initially sustained, it would only get more and more impossible to sustain as mass accumulated with each additional floor that failed.


Btodd

Ok cool.... he's a liar.

So.... can we talk about what I'm actualy trying to findout?

Here's another thing I need clarification on. If every floor did way 6,818 tons, the 18 floors in tower one that came down would weigh 122,724 tons, or 245,448,000 Lbs. (way over exaggerated) if it fell straight down onto the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor, that would be a load of 49.34 psi, and it would be dispersed over 32, 36,000 psi floor trusses, a 52,000 psi inner core, and a 23,000 psi outer skin.

How much resistance in psi would the falling 18 floors encounter if you were to add up all the yield strength of the steels entire surface area affected?

Meaning, how much force would it take to smash 32, 18'L 12"H X32"W X.25 I beams rated for 36,00o psi? Or the 52 x 22 inch thick center column rated at 52,000 psi? Also the 236 columns rated at 23,000 psi each, that made up the walls on each and ever floor?

In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.

 

[ManFromUncle]

I don't understand your response.

Why is it, that no one has come forward that was involved in the conspiracy you are discussing and given specific knowledge of how the conspiracy was carried out?

There are people sitting in prison who have kept silent about many crimes because they have families and children. Do you think the kind of people who plan these things ask you "pretty please, don't say anything? We'd really appreciate it?"

There is already a long string of highly unlikely witness and key expert deaths, like demolitions expert Danny Jowenko who said building 7 was definitely a demolition.

Dutch Demolition expert Danny Jowenko
[youtube]877gr6xtQIc[/youtube]

A few years later, Jowenko is killed in a single car accident at 10a.m. on a Sunday morning, driving back from church.

9/11: Dutch Demolition Expert Danny Jowenko Dies In “Car Crash” | Veterans Today

Then there is Barry Jennings, the NYC Emergency Response director who was the last man out of WTC 7, who said he heard explosions going off in the building which blew the lobby to Kingdom Come.

Barry Jennings
[youtube]3Tr0TZa3WeI[/youtube]

Barry Jennings background:
Barry Jennings

After he gave that interview, and 3 days before the final report on WTC 7 to be released, Jennings, a very vigorous 53, dies of unknown causes.

Barry Jennings Mystery



Then you forget about the anthrax attacks, when deadly letters were sent to each of the 3 major news station and the 2 key opponents of the Patriot Act.


9-11 Research: Anthrax Attacks

Here is a dead witness list so far;
Search Results - 911 Truth Archive

Bottom line, a mob, like the Mafia, doesn't ask permission to do what it does and then beg everyone to stay silent. It just does it, and anyone who knows anything knows it's better to pretend you don't.

 

[keith99]

There are people sitting in prison who have kept silent about many crimes because they have families and children. Do you think the kind of people who plan these things ask you "pretty please, don't say anything? We'd really appreciate it?"

There is already a long string of highly unlikely witness and key expert deaths, like demolitions expert Danny Jowenko who said building 7 was definitely a demolition.

Dutch Demolition expert Danny Jowenko
[youtube]877gr6xtQIc[/youtube]

A few years later, Jowenko is killed in a single car accident at 10a.m. on a Sunday morning, driving back from church.

9/11: Dutch Demolition Expert Danny Jowenko Dies In “Car Crash” | Veterans Today

Then there is Barry Jennings, the NYC Emergency Response director who was the last man out of WTC 7, who said he heard explosions going off in the building which blew the lobby to Kingdom Come.

Barry Jennings
[youtube]3Tr0TZa3WeI[/youtube]

Barry Jennings background:
Barry Jennings

After he gave that interview, and 3 days before the final report on WTC 7 to be released, Jennings, a very vigorous 53, dies of unknown causes.

Barry Jennings Mystery



Then you forget about the anthrax attacks, when deadly letters were sent to each of the 3 major news station and the 2 key opponents of the Patriot Act.


9-11 Research: Anthrax Attacks

Here is a dead witness list so far;
Search Results - 911 Truth Archive

Bottom line, a mob, like the Mafia, doesn't ask permission to do what it does and then beg everyone to stay silent. It just does it, and anyone who knows anything knows it's better to pretend you don't.

Bolding mine.

What a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] poor conspiracy, they let him live for years and then killed him.

At least we know 2 things, neither James Bond or Mossad were involved.

 

[bhsmte]

It always intrigues me how the human mind can do the psychological gymnastics to make an elaborate conspiracy like this work in one's mind.

Magnify certain evidence that fits the conspiracy and ignore everything that doesn't. Good ole confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, always fun to watch in action.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Ok cool.... he's a liar.

So.... can we talk about what I'm actualy trying to findout?

Here's another thing I need clarification on. If every floor did way 6,818 tons, the 18 floors in tower one that came down would weigh 122,724 tons, or 245,448,000 Lbs. (way over exaggerated) if it fell straight down onto the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor, that would be a load of 49.34 psi, and it would be dispersed over 32, 36,000 psi floor trusses, a 52,000 psi inner core, and a 23,000 psi outer skin.

I’m not sure how you got 49.34 psi from those figures, but in any case trying to divide the mass of the upper floors evenly over the surface area of the building is wrong. The building floor surface and its supports are not a homogeneous object. We’re not talking about Jenga blocks.

How much resistance in psi would the falling 18 floors encounter if you were to add up all the yield strength of the steels entire surface area affected? .

It doesn’t really matter, since you’re asking the wrong question. The yield strength test for steel structural beams (and indeed almost all steel) is done via an increasing static force until the steel yields. The stresses applied to those same beams during a structure collapse (building, bridge, whatever) are dynamic forces. It’s akin to saying you can balance several bricks on your hand, versus dropping one brick on your hand from 30 cm up.

Meaning, how much force would it take to smash 32, 18'L 12"H X32"W X.25 I beams rated for 36,00o psi? Or the 52 x 22 inch thick center column rated at 52,000 psi? Also the 236 columns rated at 23,000 psi each, that made up the walls on each and ever floor? .

When you understand the nature of a collapse, you will understand that not only are the nature of the dynamic forces much higher, but the structure is far from homogeneous (hence my Jenga comment). The building collapse would hit some beams before others, some beams hit at the same time would be able to distribute the force acting on them better than others, some beams reach their yield strength and transfer the load acting on them to other beams etc. In other words, the nature of the forces are uneven, and only a fraction of the columns that you speak of will be resisting the force on “the building” at any once instant of the collapse.

In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.

Again wrong, since the force does not in any way spread out evenly over the entire floor below it. Now of course the upper floors would also be experiencing this phenomenon, however the entire dynamic mass ultimately has only one way to go – down.

 

[Psalm 91]

Just watched it. That's Kevin Ryan, who worked at Underwriter's Laboratories, but not in the fire division...he was in water testing.

Not only was he not involved in the tests he speaks of, he also is not saying 'the entire report was falsified'. He is trying to claim that a particular test was, but again...he didn't even work in that department. He was summarily fired for using Underwriter's Laboratories name to promote his 9/11 conspiracy beliefs...which conspiracists just labeled as further proof of the conspiracy (predictable).

So, the information you were given about how many floors could be supported by a lower floor is not in question. It is valid, and that is why once the initial failure occurred, and the load could not be initially sustained, it would only get more and more impossible to sustain as mass accumulated with each additional floor that failed.


Btodd

Why do you automatically believe Underwriter's Laboratories? Van Jones was fired for being a truther too, and he was a Communist friend of Obama's. Everyone who admits to being a truther gets fired. That is the government's way of keeping the facts away from the people: make truthers look unpatriotic and enemies of the victims. It works. They are not just made fun of, they're hated. People don't dare talk about it in public. It is really sad that political pressure led to social pressure to keep it hidden. And intelligent people are falling for it.

 

[Psalm 91]

If any of this were true, you wouldn't have to tell anyone. It would be common knowledge. Your arrogance is astounding.

That is not true. JFK's assassination was not possible the way the media told the story. It's taken until 2013 for 80% of the public to realize that. But that was 1963 so I can cut them some slack. 9/11 took place in 2001, people should have stood up and demanded explanations and answers to their questions, but they didn't. It was too painful, too upsetting, and people might think they were unpatriotic if they didn't believe the explanations, so they just ignored and accepted the story they were told.

 

[Psalm 91]

Ok cool.... he's a liar.

So.... can we talk about what I'm actualy trying to findout?

Here's another thing I need clarification on. If every floor did way 6,818 tons, the 18 floors in tower one that came down would weigh 122,724 tons, or 245,448,000 Lbs. (way over exaggerated) if it fell straight down onto the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor, that would be a load of 49.34 psi, and it would be dispersed over 32, 36,000 psi floor trusses, a 52,000 psi inner core, and a 23,000 psi outer skin.

How much resistance in psi would the falling 18 floors encounter if you were to add up all the yield strength of the steels entire surface area affected?

Meaning, how much force would it take to smash 32, 18'L 12"H X32"W X.25 I beams rated for 36,00o psi? Or the 52 x 22 inch thick center column rated at 52,000 psi? Also the 236 columns rated at 23,000 psi each, that made up the walls on each and ever floor?

In my example, the 245,448,000 Lbs. of the 18 falling floors would equal would equal 111,333,340 kg. Ill take the overall height of 415 meter / 110 floors to get a ball park story of 3.77 meters, or about 12.4 Ft. per story. Energy at impact: 4101 joules, or 21 psi. after an 12.4 foot drop. Add the impact to the weight of the structure falling 49.34 + 12.40= 61.74 Psi. spread out over the 14,974,480 sq. inch 91st floor. So..... no collapse.

This is s such "guy" thread, lol.