9/11 And the End Times
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That's what 9/11 was supposed to have been all about, wasn't it?inhisdebt said:
About fear, Jesus said:
4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Luke 12:4-5
5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Luke 12:4-5
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Can Anything Be Done?
By Paul Craig Roberts
08/27/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- Many readers have praised me for my courage in broaching taboo subjects and stating obvious truths. Others denounce me for being unpatriotic and distrusting our government. One reader, Susan Hartman, wrote to me that I was obviously in the pay of Islamic Jihadists and that she had reported me to the FBI.
Despite the lack of evidence to support their belief, a number of readers remain confident that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that America narrowly missed being annihilated. These readers know for a fact that Hussein had WMD, because the President would know, and he wouldnt lie.
In other words, whatever Bush says is true, and all who doubt him are unpatriotic. You are with us or against us. The facts be damned. There are a large number of Susan Hartmans in the body politic.
A group of scientists, engineers, and university professors are trying to start a debate about the collapse of the three World Trade Center buildings. I reported one of their findings: There is an inconsistency between the speed with which the buildings collapsed and the pancaking theory used to explain the collapse. Another way of putting the problem is that there seems to be a massive energy deficit in the explanation that the buildings fell as a result of gravitational energy. There simply was not sufficient gravitational energy to produce the results.
For reporting a scientific finding, I was called a conspiracy theorist. Only in America is scientific analysis seen as conspiracy theory and government lies as truth.
Applications of the laws of physics and scientific calculations can be reviewed and checked by other scientists. Scientists, like the rest of us, can make mistakes. However, questions raised about the collapse of the WTC buildings are not engaged but ignored.
The 9/11 scholars findings seem to be in sync with public opinion. Polls show that more than one-third and as much as one-half of the American public does not believe the governments 9/11 story.
The public doesnt believe the John F. Kennedy assassination story either. Nevertheless, experts who point out problems in the official story are still called conspiracy theorists even though a large percentage of the people share their doubts.
I think the reason so many Americans do not believe the Kennedy story told by the Warren Commission and the 9/11 story told by the 9/11 Commission is not because Americans are knowledgeable about ballistics or physics, or know how to do energy calculations, but because the stories contain too many unusual happenings, too many oddities.
In the Kennedy case doubts are raised by such things as an improbable bullet trajectory, the against-all-procedures absence of Secret Service agents from the rear and sides of Kennedys limo, the inexplicable access of an unauthorized armed civilian, Jack Ruby, who was able to assassinate Oswald inside the jail before Oswald could be questioned. Online at http://www.insidebayarea.com/timesstar/localnews/ci_4213295 there is a report that two scientists, Pat Grant and Erik Randich, at the Forensic Science Center of the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory have discredited the reliability of the neutron activation analysis, which was used to prove that all the recovered bullet fragments came from Oswalds shots. Courts no longer accept as evidence and the FBI no longer uses the analysis that was used to close the Oswald case.
Any one of these things would be an oddity. The combination of oddities becomes inexplicable, a statistical impossibility.
The same with the explanation of 9/11. Powerfully constructed buildings collapse when there is no source of the required energy to do the job. A large 757 hits the Pentagon but leaves a small hole, and there is no sign of wings, engines, tail or fuselage. Every air control and military procedure fails, and hijacked airliners are not intercepted by jet fighters. The alleged hijackers names apparently are not on the passenger lists, and some of the alleged hijackers have been found alive and well in Saudi Arabia. Dr. Thomas R. Olmstead used the Freedom of Information Act to get a copy of the autopsy list of American Airlines flight 77, and he reports that there are no Arabic names on the list.
My point is a simple one. Attentive people, even if they are not scientifically literate, can sense when there are too many oddities for an explanation to be believable.
If deception is sensed, there is a receptive audience when experts or film makers speak. Denouncing inconvenient facts as conspiracy theories is a way of suppressing debate and investigation.
This itself is telling. If the official explanations are safe, their proponents should welcome the opportunity to show again and again that the explanations can stand all challenges. Instead, the second a challenge shows its head, it is branded a conspiracy theory. That tells me that the official explanations can stand no challenge.
Dont ask me who killed Kennedy and why, and dont ask me who was behind the 9/11 attack or what brought the three WTC buildings down. My position is a simple one. The official accounts are too improbable to be believable.
I wont believe them until the government can explain where the energy came from to bring down the three WTC buildings. With the demise of the single bullet theory, there seems to be no verification of Oswalds magical shooting.
It seems to me that the real conspiracy theories are the explanations that are overweighted with improbabilities.
Readers ask me what can we do? We can do very little as we have lost control over our government. Elections, even if not stolen, change very little. Government got free of our control when we forgot the teaching of our Founding Fathers that government is always the greatest threat to our liberty.
Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
By Paul Craig Roberts
08/27/06 "Information Clearing House" -- -- Many readers have praised me for my courage in broaching taboo subjects and stating obvious truths. Others denounce me for being unpatriotic and distrusting our government. One reader, Susan Hartman, wrote to me that I was obviously in the pay of Islamic Jihadists and that she had reported me to the FBI.
Despite the lack of evidence to support their belief, a number of readers remain confident that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that America narrowly missed being annihilated. These readers know for a fact that Hussein had WMD, because the President would know, and he wouldnt lie.
In other words, whatever Bush says is true, and all who doubt him are unpatriotic. You are with us or against us. The facts be damned. There are a large number of Susan Hartmans in the body politic.
A group of scientists, engineers, and university professors are trying to start a debate about the collapse of the three World Trade Center buildings. I reported one of their findings: There is an inconsistency between the speed with which the buildings collapsed and the pancaking theory used to explain the collapse. Another way of putting the problem is that there seems to be a massive energy deficit in the explanation that the buildings fell as a result of gravitational energy. There simply was not sufficient gravitational energy to produce the results.
For reporting a scientific finding, I was called a conspiracy theorist. Only in America is scientific analysis seen as conspiracy theory and government lies as truth.
Applications of the laws of physics and scientific calculations can be reviewed and checked by other scientists. Scientists, like the rest of us, can make mistakes. However, questions raised about the collapse of the WTC buildings are not engaged but ignored.
The 9/11 scholars findings seem to be in sync with public opinion. Polls show that more than one-third and as much as one-half of the American public does not believe the governments 9/11 story.
The public doesnt believe the John F. Kennedy assassination story either. Nevertheless, experts who point out problems in the official story are still called conspiracy theorists even though a large percentage of the people share their doubts.
I think the reason so many Americans do not believe the Kennedy story told by the Warren Commission and the 9/11 story told by the 9/11 Commission is not because Americans are knowledgeable about ballistics or physics, or know how to do energy calculations, but because the stories contain too many unusual happenings, too many oddities.
In the Kennedy case doubts are raised by such things as an improbable bullet trajectory, the against-all-procedures absence of Secret Service agents from the rear and sides of Kennedys limo, the inexplicable access of an unauthorized armed civilian, Jack Ruby, who was able to assassinate Oswald inside the jail before Oswald could be questioned. Online at http://www.insidebayarea.com/timesstar/localnews/ci_4213295 there is a report that two scientists, Pat Grant and Erik Randich, at the Forensic Science Center of the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory have discredited the reliability of the neutron activation analysis, which was used to prove that all the recovered bullet fragments came from Oswalds shots. Courts no longer accept as evidence and the FBI no longer uses the analysis that was used to close the Oswald case.
Any one of these things would be an oddity. The combination of oddities becomes inexplicable, a statistical impossibility.
The same with the explanation of 9/11. Powerfully constructed buildings collapse when there is no source of the required energy to do the job. A large 757 hits the Pentagon but leaves a small hole, and there is no sign of wings, engines, tail or fuselage. Every air control and military procedure fails, and hijacked airliners are not intercepted by jet fighters. The alleged hijackers names apparently are not on the passenger lists, and some of the alleged hijackers have been found alive and well in Saudi Arabia. Dr. Thomas R. Olmstead used the Freedom of Information Act to get a copy of the autopsy list of American Airlines flight 77, and he reports that there are no Arabic names on the list.
My point is a simple one. Attentive people, even if they are not scientifically literate, can sense when there are too many oddities for an explanation to be believable.
If deception is sensed, there is a receptive audience when experts or film makers speak. Denouncing inconvenient facts as conspiracy theories is a way of suppressing debate and investigation.
This itself is telling. If the official explanations are safe, their proponents should welcome the opportunity to show again and again that the explanations can stand all challenges. Instead, the second a challenge shows its head, it is branded a conspiracy theory. That tells me that the official explanations can stand no challenge.
Dont ask me who killed Kennedy and why, and dont ask me who was behind the 9/11 attack or what brought the three WTC buildings down. My position is a simple one. The official accounts are too improbable to be believable.
I wont believe them until the government can explain where the energy came from to bring down the three WTC buildings. With the demise of the single bullet theory, there seems to be no verification of Oswalds magical shooting.
It seems to me that the real conspiracy theories are the explanations that are overweighted with improbabilities.
Readers ask me what can we do? We can do very little as we have lost control over our government. Elections, even if not stolen, change very little. Government got free of our control when we forgot the teaching of our Founding Fathers that government is always the greatest threat to our liberty.
Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
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And an army was given to him against the daily sacrifice [continual employment; Strong's]because of transgression, and it cast the truth to the ground. And it worked and succeeded.
(Dan 8:12)
Searching for truth in the rubble
Author Barrie Zwicker believes the White House knocked down the Twin Towers on 9/11. Crazy conspiracy theory? Maybe not.
By MATTHEW SINGER, VCReporter, 8/30/06
As the fifth anniversary of 9/11 draws near, recent polls indicate that a growing number of Americans believe they have not been told the full truth behind the events of that terrible day. In other words, more and more people are coming around to the conclusion Canadian journalist and media critic Barrie Zwicker reached within hours of the collapse of the World Trade Center: that forces within the United States government manufactured the attacks as a means of justifying war plans abroad and instituting draconian domestic policies at home.
Outrageous? Possibly. But Zwicker is not a lone conspiracy theorist shouting rhetoric from a street corner. He is part of a widening group of well-educated individuals, collectively known as the 9/11 Truth Movement, who, through exhaustive independent research, have determined that the official story of what happened on Sept. 11 is more far-fetched than any of the so-called alternative versions.
Zwicker is the author of the recently published Towers of Deception: The Media Cover-up of 9/11. He responded to questions from the Reporter via e-mail while on a book signing tour, which comes to the E.P. Foster Library in Ventura on Sept. 6.
Ventura County Reporter: What, in essence, is "the truth" behind the events of Sept. 11, 2001, as you see it?
Barrie Zwicker: Any fair-minded person who puts aside politics, ideology, fear and presuppositions, who simply examines the evidence dispassionately, cannot escape the conclusion that the White House engineered 9/11 by neutralizing the [United States Air Force] and bringing down the WTC towers (and WTC 7) through controlled demolition made to look like collapse from aircraft hits and fire (except that the sudden collapse of WTC 7 at 5:20 pm on 9/11 took place without the building having been hit by an aircraft or even been seriously damaged by the events of earlier that day, and only two small fires were seen in the building).
Were you immediately suspicious of the media\'s portrayal of the tragedy or did your doubts develop in the aftermath of that day?
With me, it was immediate. I have had a lifelong interest in aviation. On the morning of 9/11 I was jumping up and down in front of my TV set cheering the USAF into action. "C\'mon," I shouted, "let\'s get going." Passenger aircraft were loose all over hell\'s half acre, heading for Washington, D.C., and goodness knows where. I knew jet interceptors are scrambled in minutes. After about an hour, the penny dropped. "This is impossible," I said. "This is a Reichstag fire 2001."
You call 9/11 a false flag operation. What does that mean?
The definition I use in my book is that it is an event, usually shocking and often involving considerable loss of life, staged by a government to make it look as if the nation involved is being attacked by a chosen enemy.
President Bush is known for making a lot of decisions without consideration for any kind of mandate from the public. If he wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, couldn't and wouldn't he have done so without manufacturing an event the size of 9/11?
It's much harder, especially when you suffer low popularity and trust to begin with, to simply talk a nation into war than to have a massive emotion-packed false flag op to drive public opinion. A small event would not have sufficed to accomplish the multiple aims of the neo-cons: massive resource theft, several dirty expensive wars, ballooning billions to the arms and surveillance industries, reduction of civil liberties. The neo-cons had to produce, as the [Project for a New American Century] document, "Rebuilding America\'s Defenses," of September 2002 put it, a "catastrophic and catalyzing event" on the scale of a new Pearl Harbor. We're talking changing history here; a few lies by a known liar just aren't going to cut it.
What is your opinion of some of the more fantastic theories that have been put forth regarding 9/11 (i.e., that a missile hit the Pentagon, that the planes that hit the WTC buildings were unmanned drones, etc.)? Do they help or hurt people like yourself, who take a more journalistic approach?
No theory is fantastic if it squares with the available evidence. Theorizing is a logical and necessary process for discovering truth. Most people who reject conspiracy theories believe the most fantastic one of all: the official 9/11 story of hard-drinking Muslim terrorists, terrorists who could not rent a Cessna but piloted giant airliners with pinpoint accuracy, whose passports were found intact in burning rubble, etc. in other words, a conspiracy theory with no evidence to support it. Remember the line from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle\'s The Sign of Four: "Whenever you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
In your book, you criticize "leftist gatekeepers" such as Noam Chomsky as much as the neo-cons. What role are they playing in the alleged 9/11 cover-up?
I agree with progressive filmmaker Roy Harvey of Snowshoe Films that "The greatest single obstacle to the spread of 9/11 truth is the left media." In Chapter 5 of my book I provide 15,000 words of evidence (plus two pages of footnotes) showing left media have proved to be de facto censors of 9/11 truth as much as the mainstream corporate media. They have thereby prevented many thinking, concerned citizens from taking earlier and/or effective action to expose the Achilles heel of 9/11. You\'d expect this of the corporate mainstream, not of the alternative left. The implications are very dark. We need to face them.
According to recent polls, more and more people seem to be coming around to the idea that we're not being told the whole truth about what happened on Sept. 11. To what do you attribute that growing opinion?
To the 9/11 Truth Movement, in the main. But the movement is planting its seeds in an ever more fertile soil: growing public discontent over such facts as the lying about WMDs in Iraq, the obscene tax breaks given to the already over-rich, the trashing of civil liberties won over centuries, the trashing of the natural environment, the hyper-militarism. When 68 cents out of every tax dollar are going to arms and the military, a society is skewed for collapse. People are connecting dots. The dots are more and more inescapably evident. One of them is media complicity with this corrupt and dangerous oligarchy. This is why I wrote my book.
Do you take offense at the term conspiracy theorist?
I welcome being called a conspiracy theorist as this exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of the person applying it and provides me with an opportunity to point out that intellectual bankruptcy.
Could you foresee what you see as the truth about 9/11 being revealed at any point in the future?
Yes. When? Either it breaks out in a politically significant way in, say, five years at the absolute limit, or I fear and I am not alone that the forces behind 9/11 will have declared martial law or worse. My friend Elias Davidsson of Reykjavik, Iceland, one of those profiled in the book, says it as well as anyone: "Either those who conceived, planned, organized, perpetrated and covered up the crime" will be brought to justice and "a new mass movement for real democracy will emerge," or 9/11 "will remain underexposed, those who conspired in 9/11 and its cover-up will feel confident to set up national security states in which no true opposition will be permitted, and human rights and democracy will wither for a long time."
(Dan 8:12)
Searching for truth in the rubble
Author Barrie Zwicker believes the White House knocked down the Twin Towers on 9/11. Crazy conspiracy theory? Maybe not.
By MATTHEW SINGER, VCReporter, 8/30/06
As the fifth anniversary of 9/11 draws near, recent polls indicate that a growing number of Americans believe they have not been told the full truth behind the events of that terrible day. In other words, more and more people are coming around to the conclusion Canadian journalist and media critic Barrie Zwicker reached within hours of the collapse of the World Trade Center: that forces within the United States government manufactured the attacks as a means of justifying war plans abroad and instituting draconian domestic policies at home.
Outrageous? Possibly. But Zwicker is not a lone conspiracy theorist shouting rhetoric from a street corner. He is part of a widening group of well-educated individuals, collectively known as the 9/11 Truth Movement, who, through exhaustive independent research, have determined that the official story of what happened on Sept. 11 is more far-fetched than any of the so-called alternative versions.
Zwicker is the author of the recently published Towers of Deception: The Media Cover-up of 9/11. He responded to questions from the Reporter via e-mail while on a book signing tour, which comes to the E.P. Foster Library in Ventura on Sept. 6.
Ventura County Reporter: What, in essence, is "the truth" behind the events of Sept. 11, 2001, as you see it?
Barrie Zwicker: Any fair-minded person who puts aside politics, ideology, fear and presuppositions, who simply examines the evidence dispassionately, cannot escape the conclusion that the White House engineered 9/11 by neutralizing the [United States Air Force] and bringing down the WTC towers (and WTC 7) through controlled demolition made to look like collapse from aircraft hits and fire (except that the sudden collapse of WTC 7 at 5:20 pm on 9/11 took place without the building having been hit by an aircraft or even been seriously damaged by the events of earlier that day, and only two small fires were seen in the building).
Were you immediately suspicious of the media\'s portrayal of the tragedy or did your doubts develop in the aftermath of that day?
With me, it was immediate. I have had a lifelong interest in aviation. On the morning of 9/11 I was jumping up and down in front of my TV set cheering the USAF into action. "C\'mon," I shouted, "let\'s get going." Passenger aircraft were loose all over hell\'s half acre, heading for Washington, D.C., and goodness knows where. I knew jet interceptors are scrambled in minutes. After about an hour, the penny dropped. "This is impossible," I said. "This is a Reichstag fire 2001."
You call 9/11 a false flag operation. What does that mean?
The definition I use in my book is that it is an event, usually shocking and often involving considerable loss of life, staged by a government to make it look as if the nation involved is being attacked by a chosen enemy.
President Bush is known for making a lot of decisions without consideration for any kind of mandate from the public. If he wanted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, couldn't and wouldn't he have done so without manufacturing an event the size of 9/11?
It's much harder, especially when you suffer low popularity and trust to begin with, to simply talk a nation into war than to have a massive emotion-packed false flag op to drive public opinion. A small event would not have sufficed to accomplish the multiple aims of the neo-cons: massive resource theft, several dirty expensive wars, ballooning billions to the arms and surveillance industries, reduction of civil liberties. The neo-cons had to produce, as the [Project for a New American Century] document, "Rebuilding America\'s Defenses," of September 2002 put it, a "catastrophic and catalyzing event" on the scale of a new Pearl Harbor. We're talking changing history here; a few lies by a known liar just aren't going to cut it.
What is your opinion of some of the more fantastic theories that have been put forth regarding 9/11 (i.e., that a missile hit the Pentagon, that the planes that hit the WTC buildings were unmanned drones, etc.)? Do they help or hurt people like yourself, who take a more journalistic approach?
No theory is fantastic if it squares with the available evidence. Theorizing is a logical and necessary process for discovering truth. Most people who reject conspiracy theories believe the most fantastic one of all: the official 9/11 story of hard-drinking Muslim terrorists, terrorists who could not rent a Cessna but piloted giant airliners with pinpoint accuracy, whose passports were found intact in burning rubble, etc. in other words, a conspiracy theory with no evidence to support it. Remember the line from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle\'s The Sign of Four: "Whenever you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
In your book, you criticize "leftist gatekeepers" such as Noam Chomsky as much as the neo-cons. What role are they playing in the alleged 9/11 cover-up?
I agree with progressive filmmaker Roy Harvey of Snowshoe Films that "The greatest single obstacle to the spread of 9/11 truth is the left media." In Chapter 5 of my book I provide 15,000 words of evidence (plus two pages of footnotes) showing left media have proved to be de facto censors of 9/11 truth as much as the mainstream corporate media. They have thereby prevented many thinking, concerned citizens from taking earlier and/or effective action to expose the Achilles heel of 9/11. You\'d expect this of the corporate mainstream, not of the alternative left. The implications are very dark. We need to face them.
According to recent polls, more and more people seem to be coming around to the idea that we're not being told the whole truth about what happened on Sept. 11. To what do you attribute that growing opinion?
To the 9/11 Truth Movement, in the main. But the movement is planting its seeds in an ever more fertile soil: growing public discontent over such facts as the lying about WMDs in Iraq, the obscene tax breaks given to the already over-rich, the trashing of civil liberties won over centuries, the trashing of the natural environment, the hyper-militarism. When 68 cents out of every tax dollar are going to arms and the military, a society is skewed for collapse. People are connecting dots. The dots are more and more inescapably evident. One of them is media complicity with this corrupt and dangerous oligarchy. This is why I wrote my book.
Do you take offense at the term conspiracy theorist?
I welcome being called a conspiracy theorist as this exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of the person applying it and provides me with an opportunity to point out that intellectual bankruptcy.
Could you foresee what you see as the truth about 9/11 being revealed at any point in the future?
Yes. When? Either it breaks out in a politically significant way in, say, five years at the absolute limit, or I fear and I am not alone that the forces behind 9/11 will have declared martial law or worse. My friend Elias Davidsson of Reykjavik, Iceland, one of those profiled in the book, says it as well as anyone: "Either those who conceived, planned, organized, perpetrated and covered up the crime" will be brought to justice and "a new mass movement for real democracy will emerge," or 9/11 "will remain underexposed, those who conspired in 9/11 and its cover-up will feel confident to set up national security states in which no true opposition will be permitted, and human rights and democracy will wither for a long time."
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I think who ever started this thread thinks the USA is the beast and Bush is the Anti Christ >....LOL...LOL
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Theologian puts questions about the 9/11 event in a deeper perspective and gives reasons for deeper concern
book review by Arch Taylor, witherspoon society, Aug 31, 2006
Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action
by David Ray Griffin.
David Ray Griffin states that for eighteen months after 9/11 he accepted that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda had caused the attacks. After noting discrepancies in the time line of the events before and after 9/11, he investigated more carefully. He states: "I, like many other people, did not reject the official story until I wasagainst my initial reactionconvinced by an abundance of evidence." In 2004 Griffin published The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11, presenting evidence that pointed toward Bush-Cheney administration complicity. He listed 40 unanswered questions, possible "smoking guns" that "could provide some starting points for a real investigationif and when one is ever authorized."
Responding to pressure from survivors of 9/11 victims, the administration belatedly appointed an investigative Commission, which released The Final Report for the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States. That report failed to answer Griffins questions, so he rebutted it with his second major work, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. His new book on the subject highlights some prominent examples:
Construction and fire damage experts stated that except for the alleged case of the Twin Towers, no high-rise steel-frame building had ever been totally destroyed as a result of such an event. Demolition experts stated that except for this alleged case the only high-rise steel frame buildings that collapsed straight down were designedly destroyed with explosive charges strategically placed and purposely detonated. The Commission Report ignored this information, clinging to the implausible theory that the impact and fire caused the damaged columns to allow floors above to crash down on lower ones, bringing the towers down in "pancake" fashion.
The Commission Report claimed the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) failed to notify NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) soon enough to have fighter planes intercept the hijacked airliners. In a memo read into the Commission record Laura Brown stated that FAA had informed NORAD by 8.20 before the North Tower was struck at 8.48. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta told the Commission he was in a meeting chaired by Vice President Cheney. About 9.26 a young man reported that a plane 50 miles out was approaching, and Cheney told him "the orders still stand." The Pentagon was struck at 9.38. The Commission Report omits the Brown and Mineta testimonies and lays all the blame on the FAA. No one at FAA was fired for incompetence, while all available evidence points to orders that NORAD stand down or delay.
The executive director of the 9/11 Commission and architect of the Final Report was Philip Zelikow, who served with Condoleezza Rice in the George H. W. Bush administration and assisted transition to the National Security Council of the next Bush administration. Zelikow co-authored documents for Bush-Cheney describing strategic policies for post 9/11 actions. It was, Griffin says,"the White House investigating itself."
Adding other examples of omissions and distortions, Griffin points out the administration failed to rebut the prima facie case that it orchestrated 9/11 and used it as rationale to implement the aim of American global supremacy previously devised by persons who occupy posts in the administration. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, Bolton, and Woolsey among others formed the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). They conceded that the plan was so ambitious it would require an event such as Pearl Harbor to mobilize the American public. CBS reported that President Bush, before going to bed on 9/11, noted in his journal "the Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today."
Griffin describes how Christian faith originated in first century Palestine under Roman domination aided by compliant Jewish political and religious aristocracy. Jesus challenged the kingdom of Caesar, hailed as divine benefactor and bringer of peace. Romes real beneficiaries were the Roman power structure and client rulers of their colonies. The masses both in Rome and especially in the colonies suffered horribly.
Jesus proclaimed the in-breaking of Gods rule on earth, deliverance of the poor from captivity to demonic powers of illness, poverty, and hopelessness. In the early decades the Jesus movement was a nonviolent protest against empire, forming a mutual help community among the downtrodden as a living body indwelt by the spirit of Jesus offering a new way of life.
Once Christianity adapted to surrounding culture and became the religion of the Empire it lost its authentic character and became complicit in the imperial project. Faith in Jesus became the means to get individual forgiveness and assurance of heaven. Griffin describes this process at length and ends with an appeal to Christians to rediscover the anti-imperialist aspect of authentic faith and bring it to bear on America today. Political, financial, and industrial leaders are content; commercial media have no interest in challenging the status quo. Christians must act now to dissociate from the American imperial project, as did the Confessing Church that protested Hitler and the councils of churches that condemned South African apartheid. The place to begin is demanding an objective investigation into 9/11 to determine whether the attacks were, as Griffin suggests, "orchestrated on behalf of U.S. imperial interests."
book review by Arch Taylor, witherspoon society, Aug 31, 2006
Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action
by David Ray Griffin.
David Ray Griffin states that for eighteen months after 9/11 he accepted that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda had caused the attacks. After noting discrepancies in the time line of the events before and after 9/11, he investigated more carefully. He states: "I, like many other people, did not reject the official story until I wasagainst my initial reactionconvinced by an abundance of evidence." In 2004 Griffin published The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11, presenting evidence that pointed toward Bush-Cheney administration complicity. He listed 40 unanswered questions, possible "smoking guns" that "could provide some starting points for a real investigationif and when one is ever authorized."
Responding to pressure from survivors of 9/11 victims, the administration belatedly appointed an investigative Commission, which released The Final Report for the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States. That report failed to answer Griffins questions, so he rebutted it with his second major work, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. His new book on the subject highlights some prominent examples:
Construction and fire damage experts stated that except for the alleged case of the Twin Towers, no high-rise steel-frame building had ever been totally destroyed as a result of such an event. Demolition experts stated that except for this alleged case the only high-rise steel frame buildings that collapsed straight down were designedly destroyed with explosive charges strategically placed and purposely detonated. The Commission Report ignored this information, clinging to the implausible theory that the impact and fire caused the damaged columns to allow floors above to crash down on lower ones, bringing the towers down in "pancake" fashion.
The Commission Report claimed the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) failed to notify NORAD (North American Aerospace Defense Command) soon enough to have fighter planes intercept the hijacked airliners. In a memo read into the Commission record Laura Brown stated that FAA had informed NORAD by 8.20 before the North Tower was struck at 8.48. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta told the Commission he was in a meeting chaired by Vice President Cheney. About 9.26 a young man reported that a plane 50 miles out was approaching, and Cheney told him "the orders still stand." The Pentagon was struck at 9.38. The Commission Report omits the Brown and Mineta testimonies and lays all the blame on the FAA. No one at FAA was fired for incompetence, while all available evidence points to orders that NORAD stand down or delay.
The executive director of the 9/11 Commission and architect of the Final Report was Philip Zelikow, who served with Condoleezza Rice in the George H. W. Bush administration and assisted transition to the National Security Council of the next Bush administration. Zelikow co-authored documents for Bush-Cheney describing strategic policies for post 9/11 actions. It was, Griffin says,"the White House investigating itself."
Adding other examples of omissions and distortions, Griffin points out the administration failed to rebut the prima facie case that it orchestrated 9/11 and used it as rationale to implement the aim of American global supremacy previously devised by persons who occupy posts in the administration. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, Bolton, and Woolsey among others formed the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). They conceded that the plan was so ambitious it would require an event such as Pearl Harbor to mobilize the American public. CBS reported that President Bush, before going to bed on 9/11, noted in his journal "the Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today."
Griffin describes how Christian faith originated in first century Palestine under Roman domination aided by compliant Jewish political and religious aristocracy. Jesus challenged the kingdom of Caesar, hailed as divine benefactor and bringer of peace. Romes real beneficiaries were the Roman power structure and client rulers of their colonies. The masses both in Rome and especially in the colonies suffered horribly.
Jesus proclaimed the in-breaking of Gods rule on earth, deliverance of the poor from captivity to demonic powers of illness, poverty, and hopelessness. In the early decades the Jesus movement was a nonviolent protest against empire, forming a mutual help community among the downtrodden as a living body indwelt by the spirit of Jesus offering a new way of life.
Once Christianity adapted to surrounding culture and became the religion of the Empire it lost its authentic character and became complicit in the imperial project. Faith in Jesus became the means to get individual forgiveness and assurance of heaven. Griffin describes this process at length and ends with an appeal to Christians to rediscover the anti-imperialist aspect of authentic faith and bring it to bear on America today. Political, financial, and industrial leaders are content; commercial media have no interest in challenging the status quo. Christians must act now to dissociate from the American imperial project, as did the Confessing Church that protested Hitler and the councils of churches that condemned South African apartheid. The place to begin is demanding an objective investigation into 9/11 to determine whether the attacks were, as Griffin suggests, "orchestrated on behalf of U.S. imperial interests."
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BYU places '9/11 truth' professor on paid leave
Deseret Morning News, 9/8/06
http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,645199800,00.html
I guess as this lie unravels, things will get more difficult for people trying to inform others of the truth.
Deseret Morning News, 9/8/06
http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,645199800,00.html
I guess as this lie unravels, things will get more difficult for people trying to inform others of the truth.
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D
Driver
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David Ray Griffin is speaking in London tonight "to a full house", as covered by The Guardian (UK):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,,1868479,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,,1868479,00.html
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Why "NOT" to Fight for 9/11 Truth
by Bill Douglas, opednews.com
Quote:"Propaganda is not meant to fool the intelligencia
. . . but to provide them an excuse."
-- Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propagandist
Early on when it became apparent to me that the official 9/11 story was a massive deception, it became urgent to tell others and spread this information wide and far. Having been a peace & justice activist my whole life, naturally I ran to the peace movement.
I discovered two things quickly. 1) Many people in the peace movement shared my concerns about "problems" with the official 9/11 story, however, 2) Much of the top leadership in the peace movement accepted the official story of 9/11, and refused to consider troubling evidence to the contrary.
One woman who was a major peace group leader, who's name I won't mention, said that she wouldn't search for 9/11 truth because "she didn't like the people in the 9/11 truth movement."
So, I decided to make a list of all the reasons I've heard for the "left" or "peace & justice" communities to avoid looking at the hard facts regarding 9/11.
1) Conspiracy theories are crazy talk
2) 9/11 Truth movement is an anti-Semitic movement
3) 9/11 Truth people are pushy and rude
4) 9/11 Truth people need therapy
5) If 9/11 facts were a problem, there'd be tons of "experts" complaining
6) If 9/11 facts had problems the free American media would be all over it
7) US govt. officials wouldn't attack their own people
Joseph Goebbels saw clearly that people would grasp at excuses when the truth was too ugly to face. Fact is that no one has to join a "movement" to fight for the truth about 9/11, one only needs to stop pretending that the official story makes sense. Then your natural human curiosity will begin to do what it does best, ask questions, and search for answers based on common sense and science, rather than propaganda. [...]
by Bill Douglas, opednews.com
Quote:"Propaganda is not meant to fool the intelligencia
. . . but to provide them an excuse."
-- Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propagandist
Early on when it became apparent to me that the official 9/11 story was a massive deception, it became urgent to tell others and spread this information wide and far. Having been a peace & justice activist my whole life, naturally I ran to the peace movement.
I discovered two things quickly. 1) Many people in the peace movement shared my concerns about "problems" with the official 9/11 story, however, 2) Much of the top leadership in the peace movement accepted the official story of 9/11, and refused to consider troubling evidence to the contrary.
One woman who was a major peace group leader, who's name I won't mention, said that she wouldn't search for 9/11 truth because "she didn't like the people in the 9/11 truth movement."
So, I decided to make a list of all the reasons I've heard for the "left" or "peace & justice" communities to avoid looking at the hard facts regarding 9/11.
1) Conspiracy theories are crazy talk
2) 9/11 Truth movement is an anti-Semitic movement
3) 9/11 Truth people are pushy and rude
4) 9/11 Truth people need therapy
5) If 9/11 facts were a problem, there'd be tons of "experts" complaining
6) If 9/11 facts had problems the free American media would be all over it
7) US govt. officials wouldn't attack their own people
Joseph Goebbels saw clearly that people would grasp at excuses when the truth was too ugly to face. Fact is that no one has to join a "movement" to fight for the truth about 9/11, one only needs to stop pretending that the official story makes sense. Then your natural human curiosity will begin to do what it does best, ask questions, and search for answers based on common sense and science, rather than propaganda. [...]
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There are a lot of people that agree that 9/11 was an inside job, including rational people in the academic community, military, government, and most other walks of life.
It's just that it's not reported very much on the controlled-network news. If you rely solely on the TV news as your source of information, you might be missing out. Try some alternative sources, such as the internet and foreign newspapers/
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brother daniel
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Beloved brother John Burger,
What is your problam?
Take a look at the following link. These people have far better credentals than any of us. Why should they be concerned.
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
Somethig was and is very wrong with 9/11. The truth has not been heard.
Check out the information and find out.
With love in Christ
brother daniel
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/
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are you in a cult? Is this Watchtower or some other bizzare take on Christianity.
Im going to be ashamed because I didnt love your theory of accusing a Christian President of mass murder against his own people?
Oh wait..I just got a secret transcript
"Guys...lets blow up the World Trade center.
ok
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hmmmmmmmmm....ok
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i dont know..well..ok
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Im...exposing this nonsense....nah...ok
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maybe we shouldnt...but ok
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plus a few more thousand
"ok...great. Now, no one tell anyone."
"My president...I think the blowing up WT7 building is not gonna look right"
"I know..but I hate that building and all of mankind"
"Me too"
"Me 3"
"Me 4"
and so on and so on and so on
" I got another great idea..lets shoot a missle into the Pentagon and pretend its a plane"
"Thats pure genius but whats even more impressive is your plan to rig the entire World Trade Center with explosives and pretend planes caused it. Is there anyone here who would not say this is brilliant ..."
"I dont think so Mr President..out of the people that will be in on this..eeryone loves the idea of killing Americans and never talking about it. There is not one single solitary person who didnt love the idea....its freaky...no lose ends"
"lets also plant evidence in Iraq that they have weapons of mass destruction...plant centerfuges and other nuclear material all over the country...we will connect a plot between Saddam and UBL. We can plant documents...fake communications...the works...it will be undeniable"
"No..thats too hard for us...lets just stick to the easy stuff like planting explosives over some of the tallest buildings in the world, Highjacking planes, kidnapping passangers, faking phone calls from loved ones, framing Arabs, shooting a missle at the Pentagon in front of everyone, keeping all involved happy about killing americans, and we'll just take our chances that the not one American Media corp will notice...you know..stuff like that.
I guess Im real worried God wont be happy I didnt believe that.
Again..to the followers..not the perpetrators who are trying to convert you to this theory of demons. Dont look at buildings...look at people. Be those people--all of them. Think about HOW such a plot is not even remotely possible and ask psychologists or visit Christian psychology websites and educate your self on how bias, paranoia, and mistrust coupled with misinformation causes gigantic leaps in logic.
Study why People dont believe the Holocaust happened and why some believe the earth is flat. Your learn a lot. Be sure to how these evil people manipulate you with each peice of false evidence until you can longer think logically about the subject. They prey upon your mistrust in authority and step by step they dig a hole so deep in your rational thought process that you cannot dig your way out. The more misinformation--the better--and before you know it..you have become a slave
There wll be an antichrist...but the Bible says that Christians will not be deceived by him--and the majority of Christians see this as satans attempt to be his pawn. Bringing down Earths only nation that stands up to evil from within is the plan. The question is are you going to help him?
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brother daniel
Well-Known Member
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Beloved brother,
Your words on this thread have the ring of truth.
9/11 was a wake up call for me as was the death of My 26 year old son Thyl when a 38 bullet pased through his heart fired at close range.
His last words with his last breath as he died in the arms of his 25 year old younger brother were "Thank you Jesus". The killer,who is now in prison, heard those words and is studying the words of Jesus.
I am sure that we are very close to the coming of Jesus and the first resurrection. I dont know if I will live that long but I am determined to do the work of a disciple until my own last breath. I would like to be part of that first resurrection.
The word Christian means very little to me even though as a disciple of Jesus Christ , I am called that.
Judas proved that Christians can betray Christ and their names blotted out of the lambs book of life.
Everyone who uses this forum claims to be a Christian, "Love beleaveth all things", Some dont seem like Christians to me, but I am not their judge.
I come to the eschatology forum because there is no a disciples prophecy forum.
I am a historical futurist, Why? because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
No matter what book of scripture I am reading, I ask god how it applies today and in the future?
I am convinved 9/11 was some kind of inside job, but who was on the inside, I dont know.
I have my suspicions but I could be wrong. I am sure that there will be some sort of revelation concerning it.
I say thank you for your rebuke of brother JohnBerger,
I am praying for him that he will repent and study the words of Christ. It sounds as if he lacks knowledge of the word.
With love in Christ
brother daniel
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Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
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Beloved brother,
Your words on this thread have the ring of truth.
9/11 was a wake up call for me as was the death of My 26 year old son Thyl when a 38 bullet pased through his heart fired at close range.
His last words with his last breath as he died in the arms of his 25 year old younger brother were "Thank you Jesus". The killer,who is now in prison, heard those words and is studying the words of Jesus.
I am sure that we are very close to the coming of Jesus and the first resurrection. I dont know if I will live that long but I am determined to do the work of a disciple until my own last breath. I would like to be part of that first resurrection.
The word Christian means very little to me even though as a disciple of Jesus Christ , I am called that.
Judas proved that Christians can betray Christ and their names blotted out of the lambs book of life.
Everyone who uses this forum claims to be a Christian, "Love beleaveth all things", Some dont seem like Christians to me, but I am not their judge.
I come to the eschatology forum because there is no a disciples prophecy forum.
I am a historical futurist, Why? because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
No matter what book of scripture I am reading, I ask god how it applies today and in the future?
I am convinved 9/11 was some kind of inside job, but who was on the inside, I dont know.
I have my suspicions but I could be wrong. I am sure that there will be some sort of revelation concerning it.
I say thank you for your rebuke of brother JohnBerger,
I am praying for him that he will repent and study the words of Christ. It sounds as if he lacks knowledge of the word.
With love in Christ
brother daniel
brother daniel, thank you for your testimony and I share your motivation in working to be the best disciple of Christ, not just a Christian, that I can be.
JohnBerger, I hope you don't take what I have said personally, although I hope you do pray about it. Obviously, there are many who have been taught that America was somehow going to be seperate from the wickedness and politics of the world in the end times. I have nothing personally against Bush either, although you may think so. This is not about personal attacks, but about trying to wake Christians up to that wickedness that is among us that people haven't recognized.
Matthew 7:15-23, and Matthew 24:5 is not talking about Muslims, or Jihadists, or terrorists. Christians can easily recognize the wickedness of suicide bombers, etc. It is a warning about the enemy within. This is what people, including Christians, have a hard time recognizing, which is why Christ gave warnings.
Our enemy is not particular names or personalities, like I said earlier. This is not personal.
There is no "(except America)" in this passage. Just pray about that.
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All Presidents (except Jefferson perhaps) have been professing Christians. This does not put them above reproach and make their decisions infallible. This is not a dictatorship (although Bush has been quoted as saying "a dictatorship would be a lot easier...so long as I'm the dictator").
From my research, I believe Bush likely had prior knowledge of 9/11, but he was a relatively small player. Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the elder George H.W. Bush seemed to be more "in charge" on that day, and as a minimum, "let it happen". Is the younger George W. Bush capable of that kind of mass murder?
Bev Conover wrote:
While Bush is no Bundy, when it comes Bundy's education and acquired charm, and to our knowledge has never personally murdered anyone, it has been evident to us that there is something missing in George W. in terms of his lack of compassion and empathy. As governor of Texas, he set a record in signing death warrants — 154 in five years. He even made fun of the way convicted killer Karla Faye Tucker begged for her life.
If we believe the psychiatrists, a sign of a future serial killer is a child who delights in torturing and killing animals. George W., as a child, did exactly that. In a May 21, 2000, New York Times' puff piece about the values Bush gained growing up in Midland, Texas, Nicholas D. Kristof quoted Bush's childhood friend Terry Throckmorton: "'We were terrible to animals,' recalled Mr. Throckmorton, laughing. A dip behind the Bush home turned into a small lake after a good rain, and thousands of frogs would come out. 'Everybody would get BB guns and shoot them,' Mr. Throckmorton said. 'Or we'd put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up.'"
We don't know who exactly who did 9/11. But there are too many unanswered questions in the 9/11 Commission Report that warrants further investigation. Questions of the extent of Israeli involvement also come to mind.
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Please post with peace and respect for each other and follow forum rules.
[BIBLE]1 Corinthians 13:12-13[/BIBLE]
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[BIBLE]1 Corinthians 13:12-13[/BIBLE]
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