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MyChainsAreGone

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If Adam and Eve did not feel wrong about being naked until after they sinned. Could God does not see the human body in a way as we do. They were naked before that right?
Maybe God sees our bodies as a beautiful thing and sin twists the image.
SPOT ON, VmaeLove!

God's view of the unclad human form did NOT change when Adam and Eve sinned.

Adam and Eve's "new" view of their own nakedness was informed by Satan, for who else could be the "Who" of "Who told you that you were naked?"?

After they sinned, Adam and Eve did nothing right...
  • Instead of repenting of their real sin of disobedience, they falsely assigned their shame to their bodies and covered their genitals.
  • Instead of running TO God to confess their sin, they hid FROM God.
  • When confronted about their sin, they deflected the blame to another.
NONE of these actions are worthy of our emulation. All of them were sin.

This means that when we adopt the body-shame of Adam and Eve, we join them in their insult to their Creator, in Whose image they were created.
 
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AbbaLove

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I would have thought that ideally, we would dress neither for what women or for men think, but for the purpose of our day?
IMMO, you're 100% Right-On! However, since Marshall McLuhan's 1967 book The Medium is the Massage (Message) followed by the ever increasing propensity of slick photo spreads by advertising agencies most women (and men) have become way too captivated with current fashion trends and "keeping up with the Jones"

Would today's Christian woman wear the following modest attire (with bare feet) in a church or synagogue during a special Holy Day?


Bride Of Christ
Me thinks the whole package is simply beautiful for the purpose of that very special Holy Day
 
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ChicanaRose

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I like shawls and scarves (especially the infinity scarves). They are versatile and can make outfits more modest.

For example, I could wear shawl as a cover over a tight shirt. A scarf could also turn into a head covering if I am entering a traditional church.

 
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AbbaLove

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For example, I could wear shawl as a cover over a tight shirt. A scarf could also turn into a head covering if I am entering a traditional church.
Also, think it's AOK that today's Messianic Judaism and Messianic Christian women are designing and weaving/sewing their own fashionable idea for what a women's Tallit would be appropriate attire (Galatians 3:28)
 
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MyChainsAreGone

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Point taken.
 
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Halbhh

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For both genders, modesty meaning that we should not being trying to draw attention to our bodies/adornment. That means both modest clothing and also modest adornments. There is a huge range of clothing that is sufficiently modest though, so it's not like some extreme example. Even 'nice' clothes can be modest very easily. It's when clothing makes others stumble, for instance getting envious, that we are not wearing the right clothes. (in a less common situation where someone wears nice but modest clothing and it does make someone envious, then it can be we may need to be generous and help that person with clothing, by gift)
 
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All4Christ

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Clement is just one of many who taught that, but we certainly can agree to disagree on it.

One note - I am aware of the baptismal practices and associated liturgical practices, as well as the Apostolic Constitutions (late 4th century). I’ve read and studied most liturgical texts and associated writings from Jewish times up through today.

Did you know that Clement was a candidate for being in the scriptural canon? Multiple early lists of scripture include his epistles.

That said, I don’t plan to debate this. I know what the Church has taught since the apostolic times, but like I said, we can agree to disagree.

ETA: I’m not trying to debate this topic - just a quick response to the previous post.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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@Tropical Wilds

Very nice! Now I’m craving boots thanks to you! ~lol

September 1st it was 80 but I slid my boots on and gave zero carps. I wear them until May 1st and I love them. Without boots, kimono tops, and tank tops, I would explode.
 
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MyChainsAreGone

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Clement is just one of many who taught that, but we certainly can agree to disagree on it.
Thanks for replying. I'm cool with that.

Can you give me some examples of others who taught the same thing, though?
How do you harmonize the practice of nude baptism with the assertions from Clement about the visible female form? (just asking for your perspective...)
That said, I don’t plan to debate this. I know what the Church has taught since the apostolic times, but like I said, we can agree to disagree.

ETA: I’m not trying to debate this topic - just a quick response to the previous post.
Yeah, no need to debate.

But you are making claims about early church fathers that I've not heard before... and I'd like to see them documented, if you don't mind.

And out of curiosity... would you assert that if the early church believed something, that we should embrace it too? Even if it is not included in the Canon of Scripture?
 
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All4Christ

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My style of dress...

If it is inappropriate in regards to modesty for work or church, then it probably is not the right thing to wear elsewhere
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Not my thing, props to those who do.
 
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MyChainsAreGone

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If it is inappropriate in regards to modesty for work or church, then it probably is not the right thing to wear elsewhere
Do you really mean that?

What about at the park, or doing sports, or swimming?

It is actually scriptural to minimize clothing during sporting events...

Hebrews 12:1 -

Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,...

  • "great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us" = big crowd gathered to watch a sporting event
  • "let us also lay aside every encumbrance ... which so easily entangles us" = strip to a bare minimum of clothing (which was literally nude in ancient times)
  • "run with endurance the race" = a public sporting event
The writer of Hebrews is asking his readers to call to mind a common public sporting event of their time, reminding them of the importance of running without "encumbrance"--in the runner's case, their clothing--to make a spiritual point of being singlemindedly committed to running our spiritual race well.

Clearly, the writer of Hebrews did not consider naked race-running to be inappropriate in the context he described. Rather, it was a good "object lesson."
 
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All4Christ

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I will try to get to this soon, but I have most of my books packed (we are moving), so I need to find the sources online. We also have a busy night, so it may not be tonight. I can’t answer this fully without time to be at my laptop for awhile.
 
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