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Kersh

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Not this society, that culture.....
I think he was right the first time. The subculture is part of the problem, I agree. But, the lack of access to a basic quality of nutrition, education, and other vital needs, stereotypes and the lack of opportunity that result from them, the increased prosecution and incarceration rate of black men (which is indeed disproportionate to the extent of crime committed by black men), and other factors that have little to do with the African American subculture also make life incredibly difficult for black kids.

The problem is that many Black advocates want to see only the history of institutional racism and the more subtle form that exists today, without focusing on what Black people can do to improve their own situation, and many White people look only at at the flaws on the African American culture, while ignoring the effects of our own racism. Really, we each need to focus our attention on our own shortcomings, not on those of others.
 
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Ron Coates

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I'm a white, English speaking, straight, Christian male Canadian. I hear talk about white privilege but a secret I know is I'm poor and I've been beaten and humiliated by police. I know what it's like to be locked up. There was a time when the fashion was for a guy to have long hair and holes in my jeans.
 
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Ron Coates

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(continued) This was in the late 80's. What I quickly learned was that if you didn't want to be hassled by police, you didn't give them a reason to bother you. I'm okay with this. Police are a necessity. It seems to me that the only black lives that matter to BLM are those taken by police. Many more black lives are taken by other blacks. And yet you don't hear about this. Yes, black lives do matter, just as much as any others. I've been watching a guy on YouTube that goes by the name Tommy Sotomayor and have gained some insight into the black community. But he's not a Christian, though he isn't a religion hater. He is making a film about fatherlessness in America. Personally, I think God is using this guy. If you are easily offended, don't go there. Another black man I've been listening to is Jim Nduruchi of Rise Up Society. He is based in Kenya, Africa. There is a flea called the jigger that burrows into human flesh and lays it's eggs. This causes all sorts of trouble. The medical establishment refuses to treat this affliction which affects the poor. So God has called him to remove these jiggers by hand. Watching can be heartbreaking as many of the victims are small children. But R.U.S. is doing excellent work and Jim is definitely called to and anointed by God to spearhead this work. If you are looking for a worthy cause to support, check them out on YouTube. And why, you might ask, am I telling you these things? Because black lives really do matter. Peace.
 
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PapaZoom

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In places where there is little homeownership or business ownership, there is little community ownership. They haven't burned down "their" neighborhood, because it not "theirs". In large part, they don't care because they don't own it, and they wont have to pay to repair it. You wont see black home or business owners out there torching the city.

This is a large part of why and how the system is flawed at its foundation. There is no ownership. There is no personal responsibility. There is no motivation to care. There is no motivation to thrive.

Very good points. If I'm a business owner in that neighborhood and they burn it down, I collect my insurance and move as far away as possible. Imagine if everyone of those businesses decided not to rebuild.
 
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PapaZoom

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I feel sad for our fellow black citizens in America. This man was indeed "parroting" what he has been taught by the sound bite world of political marketing. The violence in the black community parrots what we all consume from Hollywood. The accessibility of guns used to emulate their ill-chosen hero's.

The odds are sooooo stacked against a young black child born into this society.

There are plenty of poor whites as well. The odds are stacked is an excuse not to try too hard.

I grew up in a family of 9. We were poor. We were inner city kids. My shoes had holes in them and all my clothes were hand me downs. So as young kids we did what we could to earn money. I took any job I could find and at one time had 3 jobs so I could make enough money to support my family. Somehow I grew up with a good work ethic. That's what made the difference. I'm glad no one told me the deck was stacked against me. I was taught that if I wanted something, I had to work for it. That's the message we should be sending. Stop with the excuses. The "stacked deck" is a liberal cry. Listen to the black conservatives and what they have to say about it. Read the book, Stop Helping Us (How Liberals Make It Harder For Blacks To Succeed) by Jason Riley. Liberals are mostly responsible for that so-called stacked deck.
 
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Colter

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There are plenty of poor whites as well. The odds are stacked is an excuse not to try too hard.

I grew up in a family of 9. We were poor. We were inner city kids. My shoes had holes in them and all my clothes were hand me downs. So as young kids we did what we could to earn money. I took any job I could find and at one time had 3 jobs so I could make enough money to support my family. Somehow I grew up with a good work ethic. That's what made the difference. I'm glad no one told me the deck was stacked against me. I was taught that if I wanted something, I had to work for it. That's the message we should be sending. Stop with the excuses. The "stacked deck" is a liberal cry. Listen to the black conservatives and what they have to say about it. Read the book, Stop Helping Us (How Liberals Make It Harder For Blacks To Succeed) by Jason Riley. Liberals are mostly responsible for that so-called stacked deck.
Well then maybe we can say being born into a fallen world has no real effect on us, that environment has no effect at all. :doh:
 
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PapaZoom

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Well then maybe we can say being born into a fallen world has no real effect on us, that environment has no effect at all. :doh:

I didn't say anything remotely close to that. I never claimed there was no difficulties associated with being black. But there are plenty of successful blacks in the world so it must be possible. And the conservatives blacks whose books I have read say the same things I just posted about. I think they know more than you. You're simply stating an uninformed opinion but I'm quoting those that live the life. There are plenty of blacks on youtube that say the same things as well.

I have no sympathy for the "I'm a victim of my circumstances" complaint. Get off your tush, find a job, and if there are no jobs in your area, move. I moved 1800 miles away from my family for a job. There are tons of jobs if you're not a lazy do nothing but whine kind of person.

Life is difficult. Deal with it. Just because the guy down the street is rich doesn't mean I don't have to try to earn a living. Find a job, and go the extra mile. Don't complain about having to do the job you were hired to do.

Too many people quit looking for work once they find a job. Think about it (I didn't make this one up). It's so true. If you're a lazy person, or have an entitlement mentality, or play into the "poor me" nonsense, you'll never get anywhere in life.

Grow where you're planted. Do the best with what you've got. Don't allow yourself to wallow in excuses. Overcome difficulties. And when you run into someone who says you have the deck stacked against you, walk the other way. They have nothing to offer you but excuses that are designed to keep you "in your place." They may mean well, but they are telling you a lie. You may have a more difficult obstacle to overcome but it's not insurmountable. Hard work and perseverance WILL pay off. Keep on keeping on. That's the message to send. It also has the added benefit of being true.
 
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dqhall

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Jesus and his disciples had a common money bag. They used money from it to buy things they had need of and to give alms to the poor. They were not rich. Jesus and his disciples were camping on the side of the Mt. of Olives in the Garden of Gethsemane the night of his arrest. They had no five star hotel rooms to stay in. It was Judas, the one who held the money bag who betrayed them. He used to steal their funds for his own purposes.

The poor should not spend on illegal narcotics, gambling, tobacco and drunkenness, then say the rich people are not helping. It is not easy to be poor. Some of the poor carried heavy burdens. They developed bad backs before retirement age. People pointed at them and called them lazy bums for not working harder.

Social spending is important. Sums spent on the poor should not exceed wages given to working people, as without workers poverty becomes rampant.

In Galatians 2:10, Paul described his meeting with the apostles in Jerusalem: "All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along."
 
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Colter

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I didn't say anything remotely close to that. I never claimed there was no difficulties associated with being black. But there are plenty of successful blacks in the world so it must be possible. And the conservatives blacks whose books I have read say the same things I just posted about. I think they know more than you. You're simply stating an uninformed opinion but I'm quoting those that live the life. There are plenty of blacks on youtube that say the same things as well.

I have no sympathy for the "I'm a victim of my circumstances" complaint. Get off your tush, find a job, and if there are no jobs in your area, move. I moved 1800 miles away from my family for a job. There are tons of jobs if you're not a lazy do nothing but whine kind of person.

Life is difficult. Deal with it. Just because the guy down the street is rich doesn't mean I don't have to try to earn a living. Find a job, and go the extra mile. Don't complain about having to do the job you were hired to do.

Too many people quit looking for work once they find a job. Think about it (I didn't make this one up). It's so true. If you're a lazy person, or have an entitlement mentality, or play into the "poor me" nonsense, you'll never get anywhere in life.

Grow where you're planted. Do the best with what you've got. Don't allow yourself to wallow in excuses. Overcome difficulties. And when you run into someone who says you have the deck stacked against you, walk the other way. They have nothing to offer you but excuses that are designed to keep you "in your place." They may mean well, but they are telling you a lie. You may have a more difficult obstacle to overcome but it's not insurmountable. Hard work and perseverance WILL pay off. Keep on keeping on. That's the message to send. It also has the added benefit of being true.
g
 
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JacksBratt

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One also has to ask why are the poor so poor? Yes, in a few instances it is bone laziness. But in the great majority of cases there are a myriad of other causes --- poor education, lack of employment to name just two. It is my experience that the working poor are some of the hardest working people I have ever met. Some hold two or three or more part time jobs and work 60 to 80 hours a week just to provide food and shelter. On the other hand some of the rich were simply born that way and are and always have been bone lazy. Others have worked extremely hard and deserve the rewards of their intelligence and hard work. However one must question the extent of that reward. About 1960 the CEO of a company typically took home about ten times more than the lowest paid full time worker in that company. Today in many cases it is a factor of several hundred and perhaps over a thousand. This is obscene. Carried to the extreme this is what revolutions are made of. This is a far more complex problem than partisan loyalties or left and right political philosophies. Justice should play a part but is largely ignored.
I think you are right.

I have noticed, in Canada, most places of employment have moved from an attitude of

" we are here to provide a service, jobs for the community and to help the overall economy while making a profit."

To:
"We are here to make a profit. Our highest priority is our shareholders and investors. If you don't like your pay....there is the door".

No longer are employees paid for a job well done. They are paid enough to keep them there and to keep skilled people from leaving. It doesn't take much when all the industries are doing the same thing.

One industry has just changed their starting wage from $20.00 per hour to $16.00 per hour. This is a union shop.... How is society supposed to survive, or I should say, how is the middle class supposed to survive with rising costs of transportation, food, shelter, heat and electricity if the average rate of income is decreasing?

The main driving force, of course, is GREED. The rich want more but the cost of material is rising and the amount of products sold is lower. The only way to make a bigger profit is to:

1/ cut benefits
2/ stop the pension plan
3/ end pay raises and lower starting wages
4/ remove perks
5/ cap vacations at a lower number of weeks
6/ lower the number of personnel for the same amount of work
7/ make cheaper quality merchandise
8/manufacture in third world countries where they can pay slave wages.

All this so that their yacht can be bigger, they can have more cars, travel more and play harder.
 
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camille70

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One also has to ask why are the poor so poor? Yes, in a few instances it is bone laziness. But in the great majority of cases there are a myriad of other causes --- poor education, lack of employment to name just two. It is my experience that the working poor are some of the hardest working people I have ever met. Some hold two or three or more part time jobs and work 60 to 80 hours a week just to provide food and shelter. On the other hand some of the rich were simply born that way and are and always have been bone lazy. Others have worked extremely hard and deserve the rewards of their intelligence and hard work. However one must question the extent of that reward. About 1960 the CEO of a company typically took home about ten times more than the lowest paid full time worker in that company. Today in many cases it is a factor of several hundred and perhaps over a thousand. This is obscene. Carried to the extreme this is what revolutions are made of. This is a far more complex problem than partisan loyalties or left and right political philosophies. Justice should play a part but is largely ignored.


The DOJ report showed that in Baltimore, in two areas that have 11% of the population, 44% of the stops were made.
There have been studies done that show that not only in areas like Ferguson, black people are being used as cash cows.

This article concluded "When we began this analysis, we expected that fines would be correlated with income levels—and that places with poor populations would disproportionately levy fines. But that’s not what we found. Some rich cities use punitive fines for revenue, and some poor ones do too. The best indicator that a government will levy an excessive amount of fines is if its citizens are Black."

In Milwaukee, if you are caught driving with a suspended license, you lose the ability to drive for 2 years, but a DUI? You only lose the ability to drive for 1 year. Black people area affected more by the former. Their local transportation sucks, so if they lose their license they can't work. So someone who didn't have the money for their license goes further in debt and loses their job because they are targeted more often. Now if they also get towing or impound fee, on top of the ticket, and lose their jobs, what options are left for them? You can go into a black area and see a cop on every corner trying to catch someone and getting them on minor stuff, not signaling etc. White area's not so much. It is a cycle of over policing and fines and black area's are being harassed and burdened by it, but people say they are only getting what they deserve.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~



It bothers me that some people here appear to want to sit in disbelief because their experience with police is different. Well your experiences, and mine, are not the be all and end all of reality and how things go in this life. I've seen people who seem to have few to no black friends, sit back and judge based on stereotypes. There is no empathy because there is no relationship. There are few if any places black people can go where we are not in contact with white people. Teachers, friends, school mates, store owners, doctors, pastors, employers, family by marriage, and co workers among others are a daily part of our lives. Yet in many white areas white people can go all day with out seeing a black person beyond tv and movies. Vermont has what a 3% black population? I knew a girl who went to college with a white girl who had never seen a black person before. When a tragedy happens to a white person, we can imagine that as happening to someone we know and love. When a white person does something heinous, few can write off your entire race as evil or beyond hope because we have real world experience and relationships that that trump the stereotypes. Yet when a black person does something, we are judged collectively and the entire community is lumped in as the same. Then when black people say x,y,z is happening and harming us, no one listens and if they listen they don't believe. We've been telling of police brutality for decades, no one believed. So now technology is there that we can record it and prove it. STILL no one believes or there aren't enough facts or no one knows happened before the video started. And no one gets punished for killing us. So people are angry. So an area gets destroyed, and suddenly, everyone is paying attention. I don't agree with the method, but I understand it.

It is really distressing to me see the callous disregard and stereotyping of PoC around this forum and the discussion with police violence. When I first found this forum, I thought it would be a place I could recommend to friends or people starting out in their walk with God, but it's really not especially if they run into the the politics and current events forums. Mature Christians can handle it, but it would only discourage new believers. The compassion, understanding, and discernment that is expected is in short supply. I've been told I'm too idealistic though, so maybe that's it.
 
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civilwarbuff

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"We are here to make a profit. Our highest priority is our shareholders and investors.......... ".
This is the reason companies exist; they are not there to provide jobs, benefits, perks or any such thing. Those things are necessary in order to procur labor in order to make profits. A company has a fiduciary duty to investors: An individual in whom another has placed the utmost trust andconfidence to manage and protect property or money. The relationship wherein one person has an obligation to act for another's benefit.

 
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JacksBratt

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This is the reason companies exist; they are not there to provide jobs, benefits, perks or any such thing. Those things are necessary in order to procur labor in order to make profits. A company has a fiduciary duty to investors: An individual in whom another has placed the utmost trust andconfidence to manage and protect property or money. The relationship wherein one person has an obligation to act for another's benefit.
Well, that was spoken like upper management, through and through.

With that attitude professional athletes would still be making $150,000.00 a year and all the profit going to the owners and the managers.

Without my experience and skill, there would be no product, the product would not be of good quality, the product would not be reliable, the company name would mean nothing. Yet, I don't fit into any part of the economics?

If you were a ditch digging company and you charged each of your ten workers out at $10.00 per hour and payed them $8.00 per hour. At the end of a 40 hour week you would receive $800.00 for yourself and pay each man $320.00
This would equate to you pulling in $41,600.00 annually and each man $16,640.00 per year.

This would be what the "old days" were like. Where one man could raise a family of 5 on one salary. The mother could stay at home and raise the kids and maybe get part time work later, when the kids were grown.
Or, the wife could work, and the man stay home.. whatever.

This is what I call making a profit the proper way. Not the new way.

Today. It's like you charge each man out at $10.00 per hour and pay them $1.50 and tell them if they don't like it there is the door. Then you say that you are only in it to make a profit?

Now it takes two incomes to raise a family of 4 and the kids are raised by the schools and the neighborhood kids.
 
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paul becke

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A Black Lives Matter rioter said: 'Rich People Got all this Money and They Ain't Tryin' to Give Us None'

The sense of entitlement is breathtaking. To think that he, or anyone else, is entitled to someone else's money is at the heart of whats wrong with the BLM movement.


You should tell that to the early Fathers of the Church, when you pray - the likes of St Ambrose, St Basil, St John Chrysostom. If anybody could have done with your insights into wealth, poverty and entitlement it was them. When I think of the harm they must have done to the witness of Christendom down the centuries .... ! It makes my hair stand on end just thinking about it now.
 
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Constantine the Sinner

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I'm so tired of the envy that is fueled by the likes of Jackson, Sharpton, and much of the Progressives. It's the worst kind of poison, which, at the end of the day, only hurts the poor.
I would say it is an awful poison and destroys all spiritual advantages poverty otherwise bestows, which should include humility and being less materialist.

On the other hand, I'd say spreading the idea that wealth is something to be proud of, or that it should be admired, is a poison of equal evil.

It's unfortunate that secular society seems to dichotomize these positions, which are two sides of the same coin: pride.
 
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JacksBratt

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I have never seen a post miscontrue something so badly in a very long time......
All I am saying is that, of course, a business is to make a profit. However, greed has taken over and multi millionaires are living well while their employees need to work two to three jobs per household in order to live from pay check to pay check.

This has all changed since the early days where one person brought home the bacon and the family lived a very nice standard of living.

My dad is 89 and his generation lived in the very best time in the industrialized world. He was a child when the depression was on and lived where they barely had food for everyone day to day... He worked after 10 years of education in a factory and raised three kids on one income. He bought a lot on a lake and built a house and paid it off before he was 50. The house is now worth $750,000.00 but not one of us kids can afford to take possession and pay the other sibling 1/3 of the price. The home will not remain in the family and all of us kids have families with dual incomes in jobs that required education, some are professionals, and pay in the upper range. Yet we cannot carry on or match what the life of a 10th grade graduate factory worker who accumulated his home on a factory wage did it in 30 years in a factory. A man who pulled himself up by his own bootstraps as they say...is better off than university and college graduate kids with dual income homes.....
I will have to work past 65 years of age in order to save enough money to retire as there are very few places that have pensions anymore.

This is because, as in my scenario, my company gets $150.00 for every hour I work and pays me a tad over $25.00. The kicker is, my wage is higher than the average $17.00 per hour for this city... pathetic. My company continually complains that profits are not high enough when our profit margins, according to their reports was 25% to 35%.

Can you imagine finding an investment that paid that? And then complaining that it was too low?

Tell me again how everything is going well with the economy and work model of the west.....
 
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rturner76

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These riots and violent outbursts are not the work of Black Lives Matters. It was founded by Patrisse Cullors, Opal Tometi, and Alicia Garza and has chapters all over the country. They do not advocate violence according to their statement of purpose "The Black Lives Matters Advocates for Dignity Justice and Respect"

Anybody can go in front of a camera and yell out "Black Lives Matter!" It does not make them a member of the BLM movement
 
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