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[jimmyjimmy]

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[brinny]

Are there some general rules we can use to help us in our understanding of God's word?

Please share your thoughts.

Ask God to shed His Light on it, through His Holy Spirit, and pray to be "hungry" for, and to "delight" in His Word?

 

[PapaZoom]

Never read a Bible verse. Always read in context. Full context. When quoting a verse, one must do so knowing the full context of that verse so that the actual intention of the author comes through. And I like What @brinny said: precede it with prayer.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Never read a Bible verse. Always read in context. Full context. When quoting a verse, one must do so knowing the full context of that verse so that the actual intention of the author comes through. And I like What @brinny said: precede it with prayer.

Can you give one example where a verse seems to mean one thing, but in context it means quite another?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There are two general ways to read the Bible. You can read it a historical narrative - following the storyline of reception. Or, you can read it like an owner's manual, or encyclopedia e.g, if you want to understand what God things about money, you go to all of the verses that mention money.

Of the two general methods, I overwhelmingly think that the former is far superior and should be used most of the time, while the latter does have its place, but should be looked to less frequently.

Here's a little sample from a booklet, by Tim Keller, on the subject

The Bible is endlessly interesting because it is God’s story, and God by nature is himself endlessly interesting. The Bible is an ever-flowing fountain. The more you read it, the more you find its truth and beauty to be inexhaustible.

There are actually many methods of reading the Bible, and because the Bible is inexhaustible, many methods can prove fruitful. However, we are not so much concerned here with what might be called “meth- ods” as we are with what we can call “approaches.” Two main approaches to the Bible usefully unlock its treasure, which is the gospel.

Reading the Bible as Continuous Narrative (or History)

The Bible is a historical account. It is rmly anchored in real space- time history with regular and very intentional references to known historical gures, events, and locations (e.g., Luke 3:1–3). Without question the Bible reliably recounts the historical events it presents.

The Gospel and Scripture: How to Read the Bible

One could think of reading the Bible from a historical perspective as reading “along” the biblical narrative. The Bible compiles many writ- ings by many di erent authors, and this can challenge readers who are trying to relate to all the parts of this history.

But the Bible is more than a narrative, recounting human history. There is a larger story behind the story. The real biblical narrative is the unfolding of God’s purpose and plan. The Bible is God’s story, and its storyline is the gospel: God’s plan to redeem a people for himself and restore his fallen creation through Christ.

https://tgcdocuments.s3.amazonaws.com/booklets/The_Gospel_and_Scripture_How_to_Read_the_Bible.pdf
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[PapaZoom]

Can you give one example where a verse seems to mean one thing, but in context it means quite another?

11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

I have friends that "claim" this verse as their own. Yet here's the verse before:
10 This is what the Lord says: “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place.

So this particular verse is written to a specific people at a specific time.

Later:
20 Therefore, hear the word of the Lord, all you exiles whom I have sent away from Jerusalem to Babylon.

By reading the entire story, we see that vrs 11 isn't a promise to us, it's a promise to the exiles in Babylon. This doesn't mean that God doesn't know the plans he has for any of us or that God doesn't even have plans. But this verse, vs 11, isn't a promise to us. It is a promise to a specific people and we're not free to take that verse and "claim it for our own."

One thing we all do well to remember is this: There are no verses in the Bible. There is context and context matters in understanding an author's intent.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

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[jimmyjimmy]

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[PapaZoom]

Thanks! Great example, and well explained.

This is such important stuff, and it's something I'm passionate about. It took me over 20 years of being a Christian to begin to gain an understanding of this, because everyone I knew, including my (former) pastor mishandled scripture this way. I simply knew no better for many, frustrating years.

I have a lot of unlearning still to do because of it. It's been a long road sorting out bad teaching from my childhood.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

See and ask the folks on the Semper Reformanda forum. I became a huge fan of Reformed Christianity because I've had a great experience not encountering any fruit loops.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

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[jimmyjimmy]

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[Quid est Veritas?]

Scripture can be read in four ways according to Scholasticism and traditional theology.
Literal, metaphorical, anagogical, allegorical. (More correct terminology would be literal, anagogical, tropological, typological)

A good example to use would be Jonah. Literally a story about a prophet, typologically prefiguring Christ in His tomb sacrificed to calm the storms of sin (in the whale's belly), morally/metaphorically about listening to and following the commands of God and anagogically the old man dying and being reborn as a New Man of God. Anagogy is the tricky one as it is gaining spiritual truths from events, a visible event referencing an invisible spiritual statement.

Some add a historical-critical approach where you read the verses in the sense of what its contemporary audience expected or thought it would mean.

All I think are valid approaches, but one approach should not be too dominant over the others.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

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[afishamongmany]

Hi,
Yes and yes to most of what's going down here. The important thing is having a sure conviction that one is dealing with a communication from God Himself. He has given it and our understanding of the communication is governed and directed by Him, whatever sound reason and intellectual rigor we bring to it.
It's great progress when we are able to say, "Dear Lord I just don't get this" and move on thankfully with what we do get.
Further along illumination of that particular point may come, according to His Will.

I have a quibble , I would caution against pushing the pendulum too far in one direction as in this,

By reading the entire story, we see that vrs 11 isn't a promise to us, it's a promise to the exiles in Babylon. This doesn't mean that God doesn't know the plans he has for any of us or that God doesn't even have plans. But this verse, vs 11, isn't a promise to us. It is a promise to a specific people and we're not free to take that verse and "claim it for our own."

Sure, first and foremost and the starting point is this is a promise to the exiles in Babylon but God's word is not bound. Are we free to claim it for our own? Well that sounds like a new thread to me but what I am sure of is that God is free to lay those words, as a sure promise on the heart of whomever He wants to.

Anyone else remember the hand illustration? To clasp the sword of The Holy Spirit effectively one needs four fingers and a thumb:-
the 4 fingers__hearing - reading - studying - memorizing
the thumb___meditating.
Go well
><>

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

What do you mean by this? Do you mean that you can simple choose to apply any of the 4 to whichever texts you wish to?

Not at all. All four are always applicable, just one or another may be emphasised more depending on the context by a specific preacher or reader.
I think when reading scripture you should read verses in all four/five methods or you would likely miss a lot of meaning and end up confused.

 

[afishamongmany]

Ask God to shed His Light on it, through His Holy Spirit, and pray to be "hungry" for, and to "delight" in His Word?

Yo Brinny, Your new image is cool but I'm gonna miss dem socks ><>

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Are there some general rules we can use to help us in our understanding of God's word?

Please share your thoughts.

Sure. One would be: Be careful about interpretations of Scripture that other Christians may give you, especially when their sole claim is that they are "Spirit Lead."

Another one would be: Don't assume that because you think you understand a passage--or even a sentence--in the Bible, that you really do.

All the rest of what I'd say can be found in various books on hermeneutics and/or exegesis, one of which is:
"Out of Context" by Richard L. Schultz.

2PhiloVod

 

[jimmyjimmy]

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[PapaZoom]

Sure. One would be: Be careful about interpretations of Scripture that other Christians may give you, especially when their sole claim is that they are "Spirit Lead."

Another one would be: Don't assume that because you think you understand a passage--or even a sentence--in the Bible, that you really do.

All the rest of what I'd say can be found in various books on hermeneutics and/or exegesis, one of which is:
"Out of Context" by Richard L. Schultz.

2PhiloVod

I'm glad you brought this up. I always get nervous when someone shares a verse and in the intro they explain that the HS led them into understanding the verse. But several people in the room see it differently. But the HS will lead us into all truth! Well, then why do we see through a glass dimly? I trust the HS but I don't trust myself and don't put my trust in others (for understanding the Bible). Yet Iron sharpens Iron so clearly we need each other and learn from each other. The answer is to be a good Berean and study those things for oneself.

I hope that all makes sense.