.

[greenguzzi]

I'm referring to the US, which is my experience. I have visited many churches for various reasons, so I've gotten a better sampling than most.

Thanks for your concern, but a bad church is far less an evil than living in Canada.

I actually have a great church. My comments are regarding a large part of American evangelicalism.

You should probably bear in mind that this isn't the USA. This is the Internet.
Those of us who don't live in the USA (and many who do) realise that when we post on the Internet that our audience is global.

 

[greenguzzi]

My sigs are fantastic. I'll grant you that; however, let's stay on topic.

Deviations are allowed on this forum I'm sure. If not I'll start a thread about offensive sigs.

 

[Michael Scaman]

Appologies... this is probably totally out of order... but regarding Jer 29:11 and how to read it I think in this example it is not clear who Jer 29:10 applies to today... so how to read the Bible?

First, step back in the preceeding chapters there was a parable of two groups of figs, bad and good... the bad ones were very bad stayed in Jerusalem and were plundered... the good ones, were cariied to babylon and told Jer 29:11... I will suggest a different thign than usual... that verse is meant to whet the appetite for longing for something like that.... and a few chapters later comes the satisfaction Jer 32:40 I will make a new covenant and I will NEVER turn form doing you good and put my spirit in you and you will not turn from following me

It's clear now, from stepping back, the greater promise is like ROm 8:28 and is Jer 32:40 and applies to all in the new covenant

so.. step back and wrap your head around the big picture before diving into the minutia... it is unfortunate that the more famous verse is Jer 29:11 and not the greater promise Jer 32:40

 

[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[Noxot]

in the usa political correctness means to obey the evils of corrupted politicians and worldly spirits. you want to know about real evil political correctness? go to china, they still won't fully admit to all the evils that occurred. the evil leaders of that country killed more than hitler or stalin and yet hardly anyone even seems to care or understand.

https://fee.org/articles/who-was-the-biggest-mass-murderer-in-history/

what does socialism do? well the romans hated the early Christians because they were socialist and Christian charity was getting in the way of their socialism, so yeah in my anarchist mind political correctness means not loving this actor:

Spoiler: Charlie Chaplin - Final Speech from The Great Dictator

the evil spirits of the world will give you their own version of God and the bible and reality. in general in the spiritual world we each hang around spirits that we are like though God constantly orders all things to pull us closer to him. even when we run away God still uses it for good. to truly read the bible one must have Gods eyes or the mind of Christ. Christ warned us very well that unless we follow him our house we build shall be destroyed by evil spirits.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Are there some general rules we can use to help us in our understanding of God's word?

Please share your thoughts.

OPEN MEMO TO EVERYONE ON THIS PARTICULAR THREAD,

I've been reading through the various posts, and I just wanted to say that I appreciate how all of you seem to say that you make a concerted attempt to read, interpret, understand, and thoughtfully apply the Bible to your lives. Sure, we don't all agree on specifically how interpreting the Bible should be done or as to the exact meaning of 'this or that' Scripture, but most--if not all--of you are sensing and shouldering a responsibility that God's Word should not be handled thoughtlessly.

So again, for whatever it's worth, kudos to you for not misappropriating JOHN 14:26 and/or treating the whole Bible as one might treat a fortune-cookie.

Peace
2PhiloVoid

 

[civilwarbuff]

You mean why does your church (and those you visit) misunderstand scripture.
To be clear, the Church I attend has preachers and teachers who preach from both Testaments.

Just a few months ago my church finished up an 8 week study on Proverbs; the pastor picked 8 subjects: sex, marriage, personal conduct, belief in God, etc. and how what it says still applies to us today.

 

[W2L]

Might be a fair point, if the denomination claims to have "all the answers." Not all do.

How to read the Bible? Many good points have been made. I think my first thought is actually "daily." Because then the images and ideas of the Bible are not foreign but gradually become integrated into your own patterns of thought and imagination and shape your life.

Yes but they don't always have the correct answers, and that in itself can hinder us, I believe anyway. Its my opinion that religion often gets far more complicated than it needs to be, and in the wrong things as well.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I remember in the past I'd just open my bible up from random and just use it to speak to a situation .. there was this one time, that a drunk guy totally got freaked out that it spoke to him. He ran away instead of getting violent. anyway, there are more efficient methods now, but fortune cookie theology sometimes has its uses.

 

[civilwarbuff]

So again, for whatever it's worth, kudos to you for not misappropriating JOHN 14:26 and/or treating the whole Bible as one might treat a fortune-cookie.

But then again there is 1 Corinthians 2:14. Many times on CF I have seen the truth of it demonstrated.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

But then again there is 1 Corinthians 2:14. Many times on CF I have seen the truth of it demonstrated.

Yes, ...but the conundrum is that 1 Corinithians 2: 14 itself is Scripture too. Does the reader of that very sentence have to be enlightened to understand the basic concept that Paul is addressing? I don't think so. I think what Paul is "saying" is not addressed so much to one's "understanding" of Scripture as it is to one's acceptance and application of Scripture.

Thus, the natural mind could understand Scripture, but it won't accept it as true. I think this is what Paul is inferring in the 1st chapter of 1 Corinthians when he talks about Greeks wanting 'wisdom' and Jews wanting 'signs.'

Do you see what I'm talking about? 1 Corinthians 2:14 is a self-referential Scripture ... So, we have to be careful with the extent to which we think the Holy Spirit is going to 'magically' enlighten us. For the most part, I think, the miraculous power of the Spirit is in helping us to assent to God's authority, ...and sometimes he'll even help us have insight into the more cryptic parts of Scripture.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes, ...but the conundrum is that 1 Corinithians itself is Scripture too. Does the reader of that very sentence have to be enlightened to understand the basic concept that Paul is addressing?

And many atheists I have quoted it to cannot say what it means; I have seen it time and again even after having it explained to them. Maybe because the concept of the HS so it is totally foreign to them but it is my experience. I myself did not understand John 1:1-14 even though I went to church for years until after I was saved then it was like someone flipped a light switch. Even now I shake my head at how little I thought I understood. If it wasn't true Paul would not have written it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

oh by the way, Jesus prooftexted, just check his references. Re: Fortune cookie theology.

 

[The Hammer of Witches]

Are there some general rules we can use to help us in our understanding of God's word?

Please share your thoughts.

Reading it, taking it literally, and applying it to your life. When the Bible is speaking figuratively, it is implied or stated, and we look at the messages there.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And many atheists I have quoted it to cannot say what it means; I have seen it time and again even after having it explained to them. Maybe because the concept of the HS so it is totally foreign to them but it is my experience. I myself did not understand John 1:1-14 even though I went to church for years until after I was saved then it was like someone flipped a light switch. Even now I shake my head at how little I thought I understood. If it wasn't true Paul would not have written it.

Well...everyone is different, civilwarbuff. Before I became a Christian in my younger days, I grew up in a family that never, ever read the Bible, and very rarely visited church. However, when I was 17, I decided to begin reading the Bible for the first time just to "check it out," and the Gospel of John was one of the first two books I read. When I read John 1:1-14, I had very little problem in understanding that it referred to Jesus as part of the Godhead.

Was this God interacting with me to help me understand the Scripture? I suppose it was, BUT at the time I was not approaching the Bible as person who thought God was there to help me do so, nor had I yet accepted Christ as Lord and Savior. So, was I reading it with the natural mind or with the Spiritual mind? It's hard to tell, really.

I'm not knocking what you're saying, but I am suggesting that reading, understanding, and accepting God's Word doesn't take place in a cookie-cutter way for everyone, and we should be careful in taking what may seem to be the easy way out by trying to make parts of Scripture sound overly mysterious or enshrouded by God's power, nor make Scripture sound like it is some kind of magical, charismatic mantra that we can easily 'claim' as tokens of authority. On the other hand, neither should we severely castigate fellow Christians because they don't or won't specifically follow time honored, academic methods of hermeneutics and exegesis when handling the Bible. I think the truth of this is somewhere in the middle.

What we all need to do is be careful, humble, and supportive of one another as we handle the Bible and walk together on our Christian journey.

2PhiloVoid

 

[jimmyjimmy]

.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

"No one CAN come to Me unless the Father enables him". Of course God was revealing Himself to you. If He hadn't, you would never know Him, or even desire to do so.

Also, the Bible itself calls for its careful, thoughtful handling. Yanking verses out of context does much harm to many.

Yes, of course, Brian. I don't doubt that. (Good points, by the way!) However, it is difficult to empirically substantiate that I was not at the time approaching the Scriptures with a "natural mind."

But one additional point I'd like to make is that sometimes Christians like to use these kinds of passages--like 1 Corinthians 2:14, or John 14:26--to "hedge out" the legitimacy of some other Christian's interpretation of Scripture, and this is in the face of the fact that each of the interlocutors involved are already ... a Christian, both supposedly being led by the Holy Spirit.

So, here's a question for us to think about: Can we be wrong about how we understand Scripture, even while we are at the same time personally being led by the Holy Spirit?

 

[pescador]

"No one CAN come to Me unless the Father enables him". Of course God was revealing Himself to you. If He hadn't, you would never know Him, or even desire to do so.

Also, the Bible itself calls for its careful, thoughtful handling. Yanking verses out of context does much harm to many.

I totally agree with the last sentence. Much of my time on the various forums is devoted to responding to people who lift one or two verses out of context, then basing all kinds of doctrine and explanations on them, even though they were written to people living in an entirely different culture millennia ago.