.

[sunlover1]

ak, now I am really messing up, blush. can anyone send me a message on how to delete posts?

Sorry, i have no idea either.

 

[Don Maurer]

I'm not wasting time for this.
Just say whatever it is you're getting at.

Sola scriptura is a foundational doctrine to the evangelical christian faith. Defining it is never a waist of time.

Only if you think that paul wrote down every experience he had with his Father.

The content of Pauls writings, specifically in 2nd Thessalonians, would not be defined as "experience." Lets put the word "doctrine" in the place of experience.

Yes, I do think that the NT is doctrinally complete and "sufficient" for all doctrine and practice. Should I take it that you do not?

No, what happens in the Scriptures you're CHOOSING, is very different from what I am sharing.

Well, thank you for admitting that the scriptures I have chosen are not in accord with what you are sharing. Is that really what you are saying here?

God isn't using me to speak to the gentiles,
HUGE stretch to even suggest that it's the same level.

Please explain, why is it a huge stretch to assume that it is the same level? If you and others quoted passages of oral prophetic and apostolic revelation to justify your oral revelation, and if the apostles later wrote down their oral revelations, why should you not add your own private special revelations to the end of the bible as they did?

Actually, truER than the grand canyon.
God's Word (Scripture, which is where HE says that HE speaks to HIS kids,
regardless of what YOU think, no offense intended either ) Is forEVER
settled in Heaven, things that are seen are created by the unseen, so indeed
His Word is truth and here is your argument, it's with God, not with me
I just happen to 'believe' it.
I 'get' why you don't 'get' it. But that's just the way it will have to be.
Living in a nearly exclusively calvinistic region all of my life, i can say that
many Calvinists would disagree with you, and live their lives entirely by His
voice.

LOL, well, by definition, I would say that if a Calvinists claims to receive special revelation, he cannot be a Calvinist. I will admit a flaw in logic here, I do not agree with every single things written in the Westminster myself. I lean more to the Reformed Baptist side, but have a deep appreciation for my Presbyterian Brothers. We disagree on very little. Nevertheless, both the Westminster and the 1689 LBC states.....
which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;[5] those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.[6]
and
X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]
Notice that we (Reformed people) believe that all decrees, councils, all controversies, doctrines, private spirits is to be examined in light of the scriptures alone. Also, notice that there is no other source than the "Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture." The Holy Spirit does not speak to us privately, but only using the Bible in a grammatical, contextual, syntactical, hermeneutically correct method.

"Man shall... live... by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God"
SS.
But again, does that matter? Doesn't matter to me what you think of my
experiences with my FAther, not to be rude, but I can't be concerned with
your opinions when they go against Scripture plus my own history with God.

To accuse me of going against scripture is unfair. In this thread I have offered multiple proofs, and have offered rebuttal against any scripture you have quoted. Have you addressed even one of the scriptural proofs I offered? Have you given counter rebuttal when I demonstrate that you are using scripture out of context. Please refer me to the post were you did this once?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There is not one instance of God speaking directly to anyone other than a few specially-chosen people, and only for the purpose of conveying covenant. Big-picture things to a very select few people.

There is no other example, instruction or expectation given to the average believer to receive special revelation from God.

The burden of proof is on those who insist that God spoke to them to remind them to get butter at the grocery story, or that they would marry a specific person, or have a certain job.

"God told me" in everyone I've pressed on the issue, is a feeling, not God's voice, and people would best serve their fellow man by referring to it as such. Why can't we rather say: I feel that I should quit my job? Is that so difficult?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,"

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[sunlover1]

Hi sunlover1,

What did the eye doctor say after he saw you the next time?
How much time would you say passed before you saw him again?

Hah! He has never mentioned pressure to me again. I think I've seen him twice
since that time. May go again sometime in the next month so I can get some
glasses. That original appointment was probably about 8 years or so ago

 

[sunlover1]

Sola scriptura is a foundational doctrine to the evangelical christian faith. Defining it is never a waist of time.

Not what i meant.

The content of Pauls writings, specifically in 2nd Thessalonians, would not be defined as "experience." Lets put the word "doctrine" in the place of experience.

I actually used the word that I meant to.
So no, let's not, if you don't mind

Yes, I do think that the NT is doctrinally complete and "sufficient" for all doctrine and practice. Should I take it that you do not?

Scripture twisting? (yikes)

Actually says that ALL of Scripture ...
is PROFITABLE (ὠφέλιμος)
for doctrine,
for reproof,
for correction, and
for instruction in righteousness!

Strong's Concordance
óphelimos: useful, profitable
Original Word: ὠφέλιμος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: óphelimos
Phonetic Spelling: (o-fel'-ee-mos)
Short Definition: profitable, beneficial, useful
Definition: profitable, beneficial, useful.

Well, thank you for admitting that the scriptures I have chosen are not in accord with what you are sharing. Is that really what you are saying here?

You seem very clever.

LOL, well, by definition, I would say that if a Calvinists claims to receive special revelation, he cannot be a Calvinist. I will admit a flaw in logic here, I do not agree with every single things written in the Westminster myself. I lean more to the Reformed Baptist side, but have a deep appreciation for my Presbyterian Brothers. We disagree on very little. Nevertheless, both the Westminster and the 1689 LBC states.....
which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;[5] those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.[6]
and
X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]
Notice that we (Reformed people) believe that all decrees, councils, all controversies, doctrines, private spirits is to be examined in light of the scriptures alone. Also, notice that there is no other source than the "Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture." The Holy Spirit does not speak to us privately, but only using the Bible in a grammatical, contextual, syntactical, hermeneutically correct method.

Well then, there's the problem.
If that's what you calvinists believe then why discuss it?
Our work here is done

To accuse me of going against scripture is unfair. In this thread I have offered multiple proofs, and have offered rebuttal against any scripture you have quoted. Have you addressed even one of the scriptural proofs I offered? Have you given counter rebuttal when I demonstrate that you are using scripture out of context. Please refer me to the post were you did this once?

Thank you but we're going to have to be done.
I think we've both said our peace and posted our
passages and the readers can work it out between
themselves and God.


[/QUOTE]

 

[Arsenios]

I'm trying to ask as clear and precise a question as a can to avoid confusion. Not hiding. I'm right here.

I ask because most reports here do not hear God with their ears audibly, but do so in their minds, noetically...

Some are saying just that, and some aren't, which is why I'm clarifying.

Almost none are saying audibly, and the one I remember said it was not God...

I asked her because she deleted some posts which,
if memory serves,
did in fact state that she and others had heard God's audible voice.

You seem to be seizing on that... And it makes better press to be able to accuse others of "Hearing voices" with the vision of Son of Sam obeying audible voices telling him to kill people...

Perhaps I can help you here -

Audible: You hear a voice say your name, and turn around expecting to see the one who addressed you, and no one is there... There is no difference between this and someone being there...

Noetic: You keep "hearing" a musical phrase over and over in your "head" (mind) but it is not heard at all in your ears, but in your mind. Most here have had that happen...

Combined: In a noisy environment, you can hear music or words that are within the background noise that are not intended there. I remember driving tractor as a kid, and the sound of the tractor permitted me to make up music and hear it as I was driving...

Hearing 'out loud' voices without an external source is normally a sign of major issues in the psyche...

THAT is why I was asking you if you were "hiding behind" the 'audible' moniker for those who verbally, out loud or in silence, communicate with God...

So do you believe that the Kingdom of Heaven is within you?

Arsenios

 

[sunlover1]

There is not one instance of God speaking directly to anyone other than a few specially-chosen people, and only for the purpose of conveying covenant. Big-picture things to a very select few people.

There is no other example, instruction or expectation given to the average believer to receive special revelation from God.

The burden of proof is on those who insist that God spoke to them to remind them to get butter at the grocery story, or that they would marry a specific person, or have a certain job.

"God told me" is a feeling, and people would best serve their fellow man by referring to it as such. Why can't we say: I feel that I should quit my job.

Because it's not about what I feel.
it's about what He's telling me.
*shrug.. So it would be a lie.

Here's an article from the
Presbyterian Church in NJ
You might like it:

God Still Speaks

The last word, my friends, is this. God still speaks. That “nasty rumor” I told you about, at the beginning — that God once came to earth to walk and talk with people, but gradually pulled back until there is very little of the divine in this world — is completely and utterly false. God continues to be as familiar to us as breathing, as near to us as prayer.

The Letter to the Hebrews explains how God does this. The very first line of that book is this: “Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son…”

God is eager to be in relationship with us, through Jesus Christ, who — by the Holy Spirit — is God’s active, personal presence in the world today.

You and I have a choice. We can live as though God were impossibly distant, unconcerned with the joys and the struggles of our daily lives. Or, we can choose to live a different way: open and expectant, listening for that sound of sheer silence that is the harbinger of God’s presence in our daily lives.

May you know the deep and abiding joy of this kind of listening: and, in the fertile silence, may you come to hear!

 

[RDKirk]

This completely misses the point of what I had said. The point was about an argument from silence. However, I am glad you are a trinitarian. Many who believe in continued revelation are not trinitarians. Nevertheless, RDKirk, you need to follow what is being said.


LOL, my purpose in writing to you was not to go to other scriptures, but to respond to the scriptures you quoted and demonstrate that you are not reading them in context. So then, I was referring to the scriptures you posted.


LOL, what does this mean? We cower in intimidation and scatter?

You are drawing my attention to one thing (that I should have though about long ago). Probably few on this thread grasp the idea of sola scriptura. I did not think about that. Few also grasp the concept of a closed cannon. I can understand that when I mention sola scriptura it would fall upon deaf ears if no one knows what the term means.

Possibly you are saying that I cannot respond with a positive scriptural statement of my own. Well, I will let others decide that.

And yet, you still have presented no scripture to support your assertion.

 

[Noxot]

real prayer is spiritual life in the kingdom of the Holy Spirit. this presupposes more than one. unity is first with God and all secondary things will be in a kind of unity as much as that soul is with God. sobernost is unity with others who are near to God.

there is a earthly and a heavenly version of most things, including praying to God and whatever else might occur with such things. that is why it is super important to make sure that you are as much as possible with God and not self-deceived in whatever form that deception might come.

one time I was thinking that I would give away my wisdom for the sake of someone else and I heard the voice of wisdom audibly get offended and said "you fool". she was disgusted in a way as if I would say I would give my own wife to away to someone else or as if I would have not cared if the best friend I ever had were to go away from me, even though I know that i need such.

I wish that I could always hear Gods voice like a persons voice but that is not the case for me, though it pains me, because what voice would you want to hear more than Gods? for who loves you more than God? so it's torture to be in this world. but I try to hear God as much as I can in all the ways that i possibly can and I pray for such and I try to be receptive to the manners in which God will use to speak to me, though i know that sometimes I fail, but the more i see I keep myself away from God the less I want things that block me out of the kingdom. it sucks being alone, but that just means that God is being silent. in the world or in heaven we must be loving God. we must remain faithful.

 

[RDKirk]

What happens in the scriptures is very different from what you are claiming. If you were to practice the same thing as Paul, after God gave you an oral revelation, you would write in down and then add it to the back of the New Testament. Please answer this question... "why is no one attempting to add what God told them to the end of the New Testament today." You claim the same oral special revelation as the prophets and apostles, why do you fail to get it written down at the end of the Bible?

First, Paul did not consider himself writing a "new testament."

Second:

It is not profitable, but I will move on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don’t know, God knows. I know that this man—whether in the body or out of the body I don’t know, God knows— was caught up into paradise. He heard inexpressible words, which a man is not allowed to speak. I will boast about this person, but not about myself, except of my weaknesses. For if I want to boast, I will not be a fool, because I will be telling the truth. But I will spare you, so that no one can credit me with something beyond what he sees in me or hears from me, especially because of the extraordinary revelations. 2 Corinthians 12

Paul clearly expresses his belief that it was not profitable for him to tell people every experience he had with the Lord, and some were inexpressible anyway.

Third: You still have presented no scripture to back up any of your assertions, and I just gave you scripture that refutes yet more of your assertions.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Noxot]

the mystics and saints warned against exalting visions above God. they can be from God and satan will still find a way to make them kill you. it would be like trying to understand God with a few key bible verses, that could work as some of the saints have based their entire ministry on but a few verses, but the opposite can also happen, it just depends what spirit you are of - be you for God or against him.

the Church is warned not to chase after such things. that is because we are to be stripped of all things so that we may purely be with the Lord. but we all seem to go at difference paces and we stumble in one way or another. but the snares of the Lord only occur when we have some kind of fault and the Lord uses our stumbling so as to help us rather than to condemn us. he does not wish that we stay in our pits for he wants much better things for all of us.

Matt 6:33 (YLT)
but seek ye first the reign of God and His righteousness, and all these shall be added to you.

 

[Arsenios]

So, you are among the first person to say that you have heard Almighty God speak to you in an audible voice, so I am full of questions for you about that!

Why do I get the feeling that a feeding frenzy is about to begin?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

When something is added to the Bible,
it is never anything of value.

Am I understanding this aright?? :

ANYTHING written ABOUT the Bible is an ADDITION to the Bible...

Therefore...

Your comments will never have any value...

Including your comment above...

Did you really mean to say this??

I mean, IF you really mean what you say, you can ONLY speak Bible in order to say anything of value...

Seems oxymoronic, yes?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever-- John 14

Someone will have to show me where Jesus didn't really mean "forever" or that the Advocate was going to disappear right after John penned his Revelation.

When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--he will testify about me.-- John 15

John and the writer of Hebrews both to speak of this same continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit, not as something that ceases with the writing of their letters. Someone will have to point out to me the scripture where it says "until men have everything written down."

And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say, For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. -- Luke 12

Someone will have to point me to the scripture that says this is now the time that evangelists are no longer brought to authorities so that the Holy Spirit no longer has to tell him "in the same hour" (i.e., "real-time") what he should say.

Concerning this, I pleaded with the Lord three times to take it away from me. But He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” -- 2 Corinthians 12

Someone will have to show me in scripture where this direct quote is not a conversation with the Lord or where Paul said, "I'm the only one who talks to the Lord."

All you "sola scriptura" folk, show me the scripture that says what happened then can't happen today. Oh, and:

"Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses." -- 2 Corinthians 13

Show me two or three scriptures that say what you claim.

You have a wonderful pugnacity about the Faith, my Brother...

Thank-you...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Notice Satan even quoted scripture himself

Satan almost ALWAYS quotes Scripture...

EVERY HERESY is based on Scripture...

EVERY rejection of heresy is based on Holy Tradition...

The Councils did not endlessly argue Scriptural exegesis...

They asked instead: "Is THIS the Faith of our Fathers?"

Arsenios