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[Peter J Barban]

I have just put thatbrian on my ignore list. However, I will still add to this thread.

Revelation is "An extraordinary and supernatural disclosure made by God, whether by dream, vision, ecstasy, or otherwise, of truths beyond man's unaided power to discover." according to the Topical Bible.

Paul had visions and revelations, and so he wanted the Ephesians to have them too. John wrote a whole book called Revelations; this book was not an illumination of previously known scripture. It was new information.

Thus, the spirit of revelation refers to God uncovering things that were previously unknown to us, but known to God.

The spirit of wisdom and revelation was very important to Paul and should be as important to us today.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Back when I was in seminary one of my professors declared that most heresies come from going beyond what is written in the Bible when trying to define the trinity of God.

Just consider the logic of the following true statements of the Bible.

1. The Father is God.
2. Jesus, the Son of God, is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. There is only one God.

Anyone who tries to harmonize these facts into some grand theory usually ends up in one form of heresy or another.

Well, I figured that I'd take on the challenge anyway. I teach the Bible in Taiwan, mostly to Taiwanese who speak English. At that time, I had started teaching at a second church that had both Asian and Western Christians.

I taught that class for a couple of months and everything was going great. It was a large class of 30 or so people who crowded the church library and I had to use a microphone to be heard. The leaders said that they were hearing good things about me and I was on my way to fulfilling my ambition to become an important teacher of the "deep things of God".

Then one day, God spoke very clearly to my mind and said, "Stop showing off". Upon hearing that I reevaluated my situation and realized that I even though I was still teaching correctly, I was doing it for myself rather than for God.

In fact, God wanted me to get smaller rather than bigger. So I changed my topic to something else and after a few months, gave up teaching to focus on other less public ministries at that church. I believe that God protected me from serious error, but if I had disregarded His warning I could have ended up in heresy and hurting a lot of students.

I am so thankful that the voice of God corrected me, even though I was not expecting it.

 

[Arsenios]

You've added to Paul's words; therefore, God's Word.

All commentary is in/an addition to Scripture...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Back when I was in seminary one of my professors declared that most heresies come from going beyond what is written in the Bible when trying to define the trinity of God.

Just consider the logic of the following true statements of the Bible.

1. The Father is God.
2. Jesus, the Son of God, is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. There is only one God.

Anyone who tries to harmonize these facts into some grand theory usually ends up in one form of heresy or another.

Well, I figured that I'd take on the challenge anyway. I teach the Bible in Taiwan, mostly to Taiwanese who speak English. At that time, I had started teaching at a second church that had both Asian and Western Christians.

I taught that class for a couple of months and everything was going great. It was a large class of 30 or so people who crowded the church library and I had to use a microphone to be heard. The leaders said that they were hearing good things about me and I was on my way to fulfilling my ambition to become an important teacher of the "deep things of God".

Then one day, God spoke very clearly to my mind and said, "Stop showing off". Upon hearing that I reevaluated my situation and realized that I even though I was still teaching correctly, I was doing it for myself rather than for God.

In fact, God wanted me to get smaller rather than bigger. So I changed my topic to something else and after a few months, gave up teaching to focus on other less public ministries at that church. I believe that God protected me from serious error, but if I had disregarded His warning I could have ended up in heresy and hurting a lot of students.

I am so thankful that the voice of God corrected me, even though I was not expecting it.

Hearing as truth what one doesn't like is often an indication that its Source is God...

otoh - There are no 'mechanical rules' to discern the difference...

Old guys who have overcome and who are overcoming demonic powers are one's best guide, and finding these folks is no small matter...

otoh - They will usually show up when really needed, which may or may not accord with one's own assessment... And sometimes you just have to say/pray 'forgive me' and do the best you can... But always paying attention and seeking what is good and worthwhile...

It is our own fallen souls that ARE the arena of this struggle for the Good in a world of Good and evil, and we are being tested, tried, and proven in that contest, and the God Quest is the only quest that is absolutely worthwhile... The rest is warm-up exercises...

Arsenios

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I have just put thatbrian on my ignore list. However, I will still add to this thread.

Revelation is "An extraordinary and supernatural disclosure made by God, whether by dream, vision, ecstasy, or otherwise, of truths beyond man's unaided power to discover." according to the Topical Bible.

Paul had visions and revelations, and so he wanted the Ephesians to have them too. John wrote a whole book called Revelations; this book was not an illumination of previously known scripture. It was new information.

Thus, the spirit of revelation refers to God uncovering things that were previously unknown to us, but known to God.

The spirit of wisdom and revelation was very important to Paul and should be as important to us today.

This thread is about whether or not God speaks to people today. Please stay on topic, or feel free to start your own thread. I don't mind your ignoring me, but if you post on my thread (or anywhere else, for that matter) please stay on topic.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

!!!REPENT!!!

They are just clueless kids who do not know God and are therein deceived...
The iconoclast heresy went on for hundreds of years, resulting in many deaths via martyrdom... The Church is always under assault - As Revelation reveals, the Woman in these latter times is always being pursued by the Beast/Dragon...

A.

I agree; however, my question was, how do you disagree with someone who claims to have heard from God? There is no room allowed for discussion or disagreement with a person who starts off a sentence with, "God told me". If you disagree with them, you disagree with God.

 

[oldthennew]

====
at a certain point in my calling, more than I would ever anticipated or felt that I deserved.

===========================

thatbrian,

some of the first communication I have had on a One on one basis were some very basic principles
to live my Faith by....I said, Lord, my desire is to minister and to teach others - His communication
to me was, 'set you own house in order first'......I said, Lord, what do You think of my teaching ability??
He answered, 'I've seen better'....and He continued, 'therefore, seek no one but let them come to you'.,
so, I immediately ran out to seek everyone I could find and relate to the them my (Glorious Experience
in His Name)....and, He said, 'Why did you do this?, and I said, 'because it is written, go and teach
in My Name and Baptize in My Name and etc.'....He said to me, 'miss Joanna, "I know the scriptures'-
so, I said, 'I surrender all and do with me as You please, for I am a sinner, please Lord, beat me -
He responded, 'That is not My way'.....and from that day forward, my husband and I have perceived and
experienced the Love of Jesus Christ, and the depths and riches of His wisdom and knowledge and
Eternal Love, not to mention, the width, the irony, and the large, large, sense of His humor.....

 

[Arsenios]

How do you disagree with someone who claims to have heard from God?
There is no room allowed for discussion or disagreement
with a person who starts off a sentence with,
"God told me".
If you disagree with them, you disagree with God.

The nature of private revelation is that it is private, so that if someone STARTS a conversation saying "God told me..." then you can simply excuse yourself from the conversation... Or you can tell them: "Where I come from, that is a personal matter between you and God, and I don't discuss such matters."

Another reply might be: "I do not know what God told you, but there are three possibilities of who told you something - Demons, Yourself, or God... And because I cannot tell for myself which is which inside your soul, I must decline from talking with you on this topic..."

Demons and Selfs at this point will normally insist on continuing the conversation... Those who know God will quietly demur... And there are exceptions to everything...

When a person with whom you are conversing has genuine prophetic insight into you, he will normally not say: "God said this for you:-----" Instead, he will ask a penetrating and specific question that directly addresses the matter you are discussing that is lurking within you... A friend of mine once observed that I lived in a lot of stillness, while he was very actively pursuing the services we were doing together... He had been struggling with me on why I was so absent-minded... And God gave him the insight during a Service... He had passed this on to several people at table after the Service... As if it were his own trivial observation...

So - Some 3-4 months later, I said to him: Do you remember the Sunday you learned I live in stillness while you pursue Services? And his eyes flashed up on full alert as he said firmly and clearly: "Yes!" The event was still very much alive in him... So I told him that I had watched it happen, in the Service, and told him how it was effected - The knowledge he gained, you see, was NOT a voice telling him I pursue stillness... God, instead, entered me first in that stillness, deepened it in me (to my joy!), and pulled out (leaving me deeper than I had been before in a Service) and entered my friend and descended with my stillness into my friend and imparted it into him along with Himself, and from this event, during the Service, my friend resolved the issues he had been having with me... I call that kind of knowledge "ontological knowing"... It is spiritually discerned, and conceptually shared... And my friend is now an ordained Deacon in the Church...

And I am NOT!
Which proves conclusively that there IS A GOD!!
A God of Mercy and Compassion!

Arsenios

 

[swordsman1]

Another reply might be: "I do not know what God told you, but there are three possibilities of who told you something - Demons, Yourself, or God... And because I cannot tell for myself which is which inside your soul, I must decline from talking with you on this topic..."

Aside from the fact that scripture never teaches this method of communication (and it would do if this was a regular means of revelation by God), do you really think God would be so foolish as to use a method of communication that can so easily be confused with your own over-active imagination or even counterfeited by demons? and that there is no sure way of telling?

 

[Arsenios]

Aside from the fact that scripture never teaches this method of communication (and it would do if this was a regular means of revelation by God), do you really think God would be so foolish as to use a method of communication that can so easily be confused with your own over-active imagination or even counterfeited by demons? and that there is no sure way of telling?

It is called simply being honest...

We are in a world of Good and evil...
We are born dead and will die...
God teaches us to test the spirits...

Remember the woman who followed Paul around? The one telling the future? How she wouldn't leave him alone? And how he finally told that thing to depart from her, and it did? THAT is the world we live in... We have Good AND evil within us, and we have responsibility, primarily for ourselves, and then for others, to God... God wants us to freely choose Him, and warns us of the cost of discipleship. Do you need scriptures for each of these statements? Or can you talk with me?

God WISELY permits deception in this fallen world with our fallen souls...
That is a great Grace from God...
That we 'come to ourselves' with the Prodigal, and return to our Father...

Arsenios

 

[swordsman1]

That doesn't answer my question. Why would God be so foolish as to use a method of revelation that can so easily be counterfeited?

 

[sunlover1]

That doesn't answer my question. Why would God be so foolish as to use a method of revelation that can so easily be counterfeited?

Why would GOD be so FOOLISH??
Smh.
Hmm, why Scripture too, which can be so easily twisted?
Why truth, which can be so easily twisted?
Love, which can so easily be counterfeited?

 

[swordsman1]

Hmm, why Scripture too, which can be so easily twisted?
Why truth, which can be so easily twisted?
Love, which can so easily be counterfeited?

Scripture can be twisted by false interpretations, but not counterfeited. There is only one completed canon.
Truth & love are not revelations.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

To all of those who say that you've heard the voice of God and care to respond, if you never had the experience of God speaking to you again what would be your honest thoughts? What if you also were in a great time of distress. What if you were in the equivalent of a Nazi concentration camp, and you prayed but God did not speak to you?

At any point in your life, especially the worst points in your life, is God obligated to directly speak to you?

 

[sunlover1]

Scripture can be twisted by false interpretations, but not counterfeited. There is only one completed canon.
Truth & love are not revelations.

You are saying that GOD is foolish for making
such a thing as prophesying.
Scripture was prophesy that was written down
by men. Sure could too be counterfeited.
The faith it takes to believe that Scripture
is in fact authentic, is the same faith men
have in all aspects of theology.
it's all on faith.
Including canonization.

 

[swordsman1]

Scripture was prophesy that was written down
by men. Sure could too be counterfeited.

You are suggesting some parts of the bible may be counterfeit?

 

[sunlover1]

To all of those who say that you've heard the voice of God and care to respond, if you never had the experience of God speaking to you again what would be your honest thoughts? What if you also were in a great time of distress. What if you were in the equivalent of a Nazi concentration camp, and you prayed but God did not speak to you?

At any point in your life, especially the worst points in your life, is God obligated to directly speak to you?

Not at all. I've gone through horrible times in my life where I didn't hear Him clearly.
Felt very far from him in fact, but He was always there, I know because He said so
in His sure word. (I will never leave you or forsake you)
God obligates Himself in many ways.
For instance, it would be UNjust of Him not to forgive confessed sin.
He comes right out and tells us this in 1 John 1:9.
Jesus paid the price, so it's only just for Him to honor that.
So, is He "obligated" to keep His Word, that He's
promised? He's surely not a man that He should lie
or son of man that He should repent.
The Psalmist's experiences can speak to us in our own
times of need. Sometimes it SEEMS like He's far, but
that's just us freaking out sometimes lol
IMO.

 

[sunlover1]

You are suggesting some parts of the bible may be counterfeit?

Is that what I said?
But if i had a nickel for every time you've
suggested someone here is dishonoring
the Scriptures I'd be rich.

 

[sunlover1]

To all of those who say that you've heard the voice of God and care to respond, if you never had the experience of God speaking to you again what would be your honest thoughts? What if you also were in a great time of distress. What if you were in the equivalent of a Nazi concentration camp, and you prayed but God did not speak to you?

At any point in your life, especially the worst points in your life, is God obligated to directly speak to you?

Oh, and if i were in a nazi camp.. and I have been held in captivity for years, and I have had my life threatened
more than once. I've lived in constant fear for my life. And i KNEW, even though I watched my back nonstop, that
He would keep me. He is faithful. He said that nothing would by any means harm us. He said that He's given His
angels charge over us! He is right here with me right now, delivering me from troubles. But sometimes my FLESH
freaks out and I have to shut it up, taking every thought captive.
And if He didn't spring me from the prison, He'd be right there with me giving me His grace to deal.
Mom was dying of brain cancer and smiled through most of it.
Grace of God is a sight to behold!

 

[swordsman1]

Is that what I said?
But if i had a nickel for every time you've
suggested someone here is dishonoring
the Scriptures I'd be rich.

Me accusing people of dishonoring scripture? Apart from the chap earlier who said scripture was "a secondhand note written by a stranger" I can't think of any other instance. I do think people here regularly misinterpret scripture though, but that is a result of insufficient study or sometimes stubbornness. The truth of scripture can, with sufficient study, be determined. Not like people having these strong feelings where it is either:
A. God telling them something.
B. Their own over-active imagination.
C. A counterfeit from demons

And there is no sure way of telling which it is. People usually assume option A and obey the message regardless, but it could well be B or C. Which is dangerous in the extreme.

In my book of course A doesn't even exit, it is either B or C, because nowhere in scripture is this method of revelation taught. It is an entirely man-made teaching.