.

[ViaCrucis]

The scribes who Christ rebuked, they gave us the scriptures. They were however circumcised in the flesh, but their ears and heart were not circumcised. God writes his law in our minds and heart. Do you know what that means? Its God who gives the increase, not man. Man is nothing to glory in. Let he who glories glory only in the Lord. Its about Christ and Christ alone.

How many books are in your Bible? And why?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

God puts his laws in our mind, and writes them on our hearts. He circumcises our ears, so to speak. Let him who has ears hear what the spirit says to the 7 churches in Asia. Do you hear His voice?

Quoting random bible quotes ripped from context isn't a substitute for meaningful discourse.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Extraneous]

How many books are in your Bible? And why?

-CryptoLutheran

Because King James put them there perhaps. I dont however give glory to him, or follow him. In your mind, it seems, we must submit to your idea of Church, because you think your Church alone gave us the scriptures. However, it was the Church that came before RCC and before your own, that gave us the bible. They also preserved those texts. You cause others grief with your glorifying Church rather than the Word. If you want to glorify something, glorify the Word. The Church (wife) doesn't submit to herself nor give herself Glory. She instead exalts and glorifies only her husband. Please don't try to put me into bondage to your denomination, or any other. Exalt the word, not denominations, lest you become like the pharisees by following there same example of blindness.. If you wish to edify, then do so by exalting the Word, and exulting Christ alone.

 

[Extraneous]

Quoting random bible quotes ripped from context isn't a substitute for meaningful discourse.

-CryptoLutheran

You are not perfect at staying within context yourself, brother. Christ alone.

 

[fhansen]

The scribes who Christ rebuked, they gave us the scriptures. They were however circumcised in the flesh, but their ears and heart were not circumcised. God writes his law in our minds and heart. Do you know what that means? Its God who gives the increase, not man. Man is nothing to glory in. Let he who glories glory only in the Lord. Its about Christ and Christ alone.

It's not about glorifying men-it's about recognizing that God inspires and otherwise uses men.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Because King James put them there perhaps.

Nope. King James' only real contribution was ordering a new translation to act as a standardized text for the Church of England because there were, at the time, a number of different English translations in use.

The translators of the "Authorized Version" relied on earlier translations, and worked from within Church of England's already established Articles of Religion which marked, for Anglicanism, the limits of the Canon--which was in keeping with Luther's translation and the Reformed translations. These set aside the Deuterocanonicals from the Old Testament proper and placed them in a separate appendix.

These precedents remain established for Protestant Bible translations for the next couple hundred years until the full removal of the Deuterocanonicals in the late 19th century. Since then English Protestant translations, both old and new, have had a set 66 book Canon.

If we truly care about Holy Scripture we should care about the history, tradition, and transmission of Scripture as well. The Bible is, properly speaking, the Church's "book".

At no time in history has God delivered, via revelation, a divinely dictated table of contents for Scripture. We have instead a history of discussion and debate, and a history of biblical transmission. As such we cannot divorce Scripture from the community of the faithful through history. The two have existed together in tandem. Rejecting the one is rejecting the other.

Unless God has personally revealed to you a divinely inspired table of contents, you are relying on two thousand years of tradition and biblical transmission in order to be able to read, hear, and believe God's written word. And it is only on account of this transmission that you believe the Bible and have faith in Christ at all.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

You are not perfect at staying within context yourself, brother. Christ alone.

Didn't claim to be perfect.

But your out of context quoting from the Revelation doesn't contribute anything.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[fhansen]

Its not as simple as following a Church denomination either.

And it's not as simple reading the bible and presuming we understand it either. Ultimately it's all about change, real change in us. Faith is more than a thought or idea, or knowledge. If we don't see the fruits of love in ourselves then the gospel's had no effect. That's what it means to have the law placed in our hearts and written on our minds-because the law is fulfilled by love-which cannot be faked BTW.

 

[tz620q]

Do you hear His voice?

You know whenever someone asks this question I wonder if the subtext is that they hear his voice and obviously you do not because you seem to be disagreeing with me. I thought I might be reading too much into this; but your subsequent posts have shown that you in fact do believe this.

That is such a big assumption. I can tell you that the people you are dialoguing with are very learned in Scriptures and do not arrive at their views from a point of ignorance of Scriptures, Church History, or other denominational beliefs. This seems to be the false dichotomy of our time. Many who read 1 Corinthians 3:18-19 "Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become "fools" so that you may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"

And from this they take an anti-intellectual stance that promotes personal opinion over theological study. If you read this passage in context, you will see that Paul was actually stating the exact opposite. He was rebuking the Corinthians for having many opinions based on following different men's teachings rather than on the foundation that Christ started through His teachings as passed on through His disciples. To say that only my opinion is valid because I possess the Holy Spirit is in direct contradiction to Paul who was trying to heal divisions in Corinth started by differing opinions.

 

[Extraneous]

Nope. King James' only real contribution was ordering a new translation to act as a standardized text for the Church of England because there were, at the time, a number of different English translations in use.

The translators of the "Authorized Version" relied on earlier translations, and worked from within Church of England's already established Articles of Religion which marked, for Anglicanism, the limits of the Canon--which was in keeping with Luther's translation and the Reformed translations. These set aside the Deuterocanonicals from the Old Testament proper and placed them in a separate appendix.

These precedents remain established for Protestant Bible translations for the next couple hundred years until the full removal of the Deuterocanonicals in the late 19th century. Since then English Protestant translations, both old and new, have had a set 66 book Canon.

If we truly care about Holy Scripture we should care about the history, tradition, and transmission of Scripture as well. The Bible is, properly speaking, the Church's "book".

At no time in history has God delivered, via revelation, a divinely dictated table of contents for Scripture. We have instead a history of discussion and debate, and a history of biblical transmission. As such we cannot divorce Scripture from the community of the faithful through history. The two have existed together in tandem. Rejecting the one is rejecting the other.

Unless God has personally revealed to you a divinely inspired table of contents, you are relying on two thousand years of tradition and biblical transmission in order to be able to read, hear, and believe God's written word. And it is only on account of this transmission that you believe the Bible and have faith in Christ at all.

-CryptoLutheran

These Early Churches, that supposedly by their own assertion, gave us the bible, they didn't even understand the scriptures, just like the pharisees. How do we not know that they didnt burn letters that were sound doctrine? How do we not know that there wasn't already a cannon before they established their own? From what i heard RCC was burning letters and books for a long time. They went on their holy crusade to establish Catholicism, as if that is unpolluted doctrine, which its not. You want me to trust them? They stlll don't understand scriptures fully. Thats why we have EO, RC, Lutheran, Anglican, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, MJ, SDA....and so many others. Do you deny that these denominations are imperfect?

If they did understand, as they claim by glorifying themselves instead of the Word alone, then they would forsake this world and all its politics, because to not flee it is to abide in darkness, and to be blinded. They would come together, confess their ignorance, and try to establish the truth according to scripture instead of glorifying themselves, and instead of being hard headed and clinging to things from the dark ages. I like Spurgeon, and agree with many things he says, but even he is not infallible. I can learn from scripture myself, by the spirits leading. I can listen to Spurgeon, and the Apostles of the bible as well, such as Paul, Peter, James and John. All things are mine, as Paul has said. We need no teacher, as John has said. Please stop glorifying fallible Churches. Open your eyes and Give God glory.

 

[ViaCrucis]

These Early Churches that supposedly by their own assertion gave us the bible, they didn't even understand the scriptures, just like the pharisees.

On what basis do you make this accusation?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[fhansen]

These Early Churches that supposedly by their own assertion gave us the bible, they didn't even understand the scriptures, just like the pharisees. How do we not know that they didnt burn letters that were sound doctrine? How do we not know that there wasn't already a cannon before they established their own? From what i heard RCC was burning letters and books for a long time. They went on their holy crusade to establish Catholicism, as if that is unpolluted doctrine, which its not. You want me to trust them? They stlll don't understand scriptures fully. Thats why we have EO, RC, Lutheran, Anglican, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, MJ, SDA....and so many others. Do you deny that these denominations are imperfect?

If they did understand, as they claim by glorifying themselves instead of the Word alone, then they would forsake this world and all its politics, because to not flee it is to abide in darkness, and to be blinded. They would come together, confess their ignorance, and try to establish the truth according to scripture instead of glorifying themselves, and instead of being hard headed and clinging to things from the dark ages. I like Spurgeon, and agree with many things he says, but even he is not infallible. I can learn from scripture myself, by the spirits leading. I can listen to Spurgeon, and the Apostles of the bible as well, such as Paul, Peter, James and John. All things are mine, as Paul has said. We need no teacher, as John has said. Please stop glorifying fallible Churches. Open your eyes and Give God glory.

You'd benefit by a lot more objective study of history, of truth. Instead of mainly pop-mythology and speculation.

 

[Extraneous]

And it's not as simple reading the bible and presuming we understand it either. Ultimately it's all about change, real change in us. Faith is more than a thought or idea, or knowledge. If we don't see the fruits of love in ourselves then the gospel's had no effect. That's what it means to have the law placed in our hearts and written on our minds-because the law is fulfilled by love-which cannot be faked BTW.

I need no lecture from RCC, thank you anyway.

 

[Extraneous]

You'd benefit by a lot more objective study of history, of truth. Instead of mainly pop-mythology and speculation.

No, history is nonsense. History is always written by men with an agenda. I never put faith in history. Thats why you cant see clearly, because you put faith in fallible things.

 

[Extraneous]

On what basis do you make this accusation?

-CryptoLutheran

Churches are all divided, yet you demand that others join the division? Illogical. I'll just leave now, before things get out of hand.

 

[fhansen]

No, history is nonsense. History is always written by men with an agenda. I never put faith in history. Thats why you cant see clearly, because you put faith in fallible things.

Well then, for someone who rejects history and non-biblical sources you sure seem to have a pretty strong opinion on what happened in the last many centuries.

 

[fhansen]

No, history is nonsense. History is always written by men with an agenda. I never put faith in history. Thats why you cant see clearly, because you put faith in fallible things.

And perhaps you're doing the same-putting your faith in yourself more than you know. I don't doubt your faith in God BTW. I just think it's somewhat misguided and uniformed.

 

[fhansen]

I need no lecture from RCC, thank you anyway.

Seems otherwise, but you're right, what do we RCs know, brainwashed as we are by fallible men whereas you are apparently infallible?

 

[Extraneous]

It's not about glorifying in men-it's about recognizing that God inspires and otherwise uses men.

Many false teachers will rise up and deceive many. You keep forgetting that. To you RCC is the truth, but not to me. I'll need to put faith in Gods Word. A spiritual man judges all things. Thats my way. I look at all of it and judge it, i search scripture and see if these things are true, i dont however follow any denomination because none of them are without error.

The mind of Christ-

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Churches are all divided, yet you demand that others join the division? Illogical. I'll just leave now, before things get out of hand.

That wasn't an answer to the question.

You said the early churches didn't understand Scripture. I asked you what was the basis of your accusation.

-CryptoLutheran