.

[faroukfarouk]

Thanks for replying and proclaiming the Good News!

I thought the 2 would make a good compare/contrast I didn't know anything "happens" at baptism - I thought it was a public profession and a symbol of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (not to downplay it's significance, of course!). I will study the scriptures more on this one.

We are born again by faith by the Spirit of God, not at baptism, which was a sign made to those who already had 'gladly received his word' (Acts 2.41).

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

I thought the same thing for more than 20 years, but read every scripture that refers to baptism, and be prepared to have a paradigm shift.

My mom who grew up Baptist, stopping going to church from age 18-64 ish.. says baptism is to "wash your sins away".. is this a safe statement? I argued with her. Am I about to eat humble pie ?

 

[faroukfarouk]

My mom who grew up Baptist, stopping going to church from age 18-64 ish.. says baptism is to "wash your sins away".. is this a safe statement? I argued with her. Am I about to eat humble pie ?

Baptism marks a public break with sin and unbelief in the past; by faith, the actual cleansing is spiritual by the blood of Christ, as we see in Hebrews 9.14, which speaks of the Lord Jesus Who 'by the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God' and Who does 'purge your consciences from dead works to serve the living God'.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

"Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul." (Acts 13:1)

That is not a definition of the word "church".

The original word for Church in Greek is ekklēsia.

1. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
   
   1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
      
      
   2. the assembly of the Israelites
      
      
   3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
      
      
   4. in a Christian sense
      
      1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
         
         
      2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
         
         
      3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
         
         
      4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
         
         
      5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

When church is mentioned in the bible it clearly means a gathering or coming together of the believers, those that belong to Jesus. When he is addressing the "church" of Ephesus or Antioch he is addressing those that are part of the body. It is not people who belong to an institution, building, or "ministry".

 

[JohnRabbit]

Paul's writings were included, but not considered scriptures. He made it clear they were epistles.

2 Peter 3:16(NKJV)
16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[JohnRabbit]

The issue is not "What do we need to do to be saved?" Because the answer to that is nothing.

very misleading here!

Acts 2:37-38(NKJV)
37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

are they asking what do we need to do to be saved?

yes, they are!

Acts 2:40(NKJV)
40And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”

how are they to be saved? by doing something!

Acts 2:41(NKJV)
41Then those who gladly received his word were baptized...

they did what peter said in verse 38!

they repented and was baptized!

 

[jimmyjimmy]

That is not a definition of the word "church".

The original word for Church in Greek is ekklēsia.

1. 
   
   
   • a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
     1. an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
        
        
     2. the assembly of the Israelites
        
        
     3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
        
        
     4. in a Christian sense
        1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
           
           
        2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
           
           
        3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
           
           
        4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
           
           
        5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

When church is mentioned in the bible it clearly means a gathering or coming together of the believers, those that belong to Jesus. When he is addressing the "church" of Ephesus or Antioch he is addressing those that are part of the body. It is not people who belong to an institution, building, or "ministry".

You asked for: "in a biblical context", now you want a dictionary definition. . .

 

[jimmyjimmy]

My mom who grew up Baptist, stopping going to church from age 18-64 ish.. says baptism is to "wash your sins away".. is this a safe statement? I argued with her. Am I about to eat humble pie ?

Yup! Do some word searches. There is more to it than water. . .

 

[Myrddin]

I think it's really sad and selfish when Christians "opt out" of church. It's one thing to miss because you're disabled or sick, but to miss because you think your faith is sufficient without it is the height of arrogance.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I think it's really sad and selfish when Christians "opt out" of church. It's one thing to miss because you're disabled or sick, but to miss because you think your faith is sufficient without it is the height of arrogance.

 

[Rick Otto]

I think it's really sad and selfish when Christians "opt out" of church. It's one thing to miss because you're disabled or sick, but to miss because you think your faith is sufficient without it is the height of arrogance.

...Said the man from Sola Ecclesia.

 

[Rick Otto]

You and the pope.

 

[Rick Otto]

My mom who grew up Baptist, stopping going to church from age 18-64 ish.. says baptism is to "wash your sins away".. is this a safe statement? I argued with her. Am I about to eat humble pie ?

Constantine believed so. that's why he waited until he was on his deathbed to get baptised... so he would come to judgement "clean".

 

[Noxot]

the church is universal so I find it is all higher life. all the time when I talk with other Christians they don't seem to be on the same page as I am and I will often start to react towards them how I feel their beliefs about God are, which means I might start to get a little bit on the prickly side.

how can I have communion with people that don't see God like I see God? I don't feel strong bonds in doing group activities. my fellowship comes mostly from dead, high classed Christians that everyone seems to reject out of ignorance. the people I listen to who talk about God, even if they say things I don't agree with 100%.... I understand them to be playing a kind of game to get certain types of souls to go in certain directions for various good reasons.

so if you want me to go to church then you tell me the reason for existing in this world, because if I can't love other people then why should I be around them? I already am forced into going to my aunts wedding today. I don't wanna. and you people want me to show up at some building 2 or more times a week for what?

 

[Noxot]

oh that's right, so i can be around people who don't like me, who get offended after I slip up and say a few offensive things to them, yeah i totally wanna be doing that. cause i realllyyyyy wanna be around people who "ignore fools" and around people who are so concerned about belief structures more than what good people do. AND you know, all this manner stuff that you do, like, you take it so seriously so that I have a hard time trying to be honest even though i don't wanna be a jerk. being alone is just better for me I think.

people are people. Christians are not some higher classed being that I ought to hang around out of compulsion.

then people are all like "the bible, the bible" and what am i to do? i got quotes for days, but what use is it when we don't see the same thing? but there are plenty of great Christians out there.

 

[sunlover1]

oh that's right, so i can be around people who don't like me, who get offended after I slip up and say a few offensive things to them, yeah i totally wanna be doing that. cause i realllyyyyy wanna be around people who "ignore fools" and around people who are so concerned about belief structures more than what good people do. AND you know, all this manner stuff that you do, like, you take it so seriously so that I have a hard time trying to be honest even though i don't wanna be a jerk. being alone is just better for me I think.

Don't hang with people who don't like you!
My pastor says to go where you're celebrated
not where you're tolerated (or worse!)
Don't be around folks who call you a fool either.
They are just a bit confused, we all are, but
it's not a good place for you to be.
What do you mean about being more
concerned w belief structures than good works?
Honesty is good, Noxot.

people are people. Christians are not some higher classed being that I ought to hang around out of compulsion.

Christians are in the process of dying to self, or if not, they should be. If neither, then they're not going to be of
any "higher quality" But I'd rather hang with someone filled with God, even though a mess yet, than hang
with those who are enemies of God.

then people are all like "the bible, the bible" and what am i to do? i got quotes for days, but what use is it when we don't see the same thing? but there are plenty of great Christians out there.

Doesn't matter what others see does it?
He said to hide it in your heart.
That's what I've tried to do, and it
really truly does illuminate your path
and make it straight. It's a process fo sho.
Sorry you're discouraged :/

 

[Rick Otto]

Don't hang with people who don't like you!
My pastor says to go where you're celebrated
not where you're tolerated (or worse!)
Don't be around folks who call you a fool either.
They are just a bit confused, we all are, but
it's not a good place for you to be.
What do you mean about being more
concerned w belief structures than good works?
Honesty is good, Noxot.

Christians are in the process of dying to self, or if not, they should be. If neither, then they're not going to be of
any "higher quality" But I'd rather hang with someone filled with God, even though a mess yet, than hang
with those who are enemies of God.

Doesn't matter what others see does it?
He said to hide it in your heart.
That's what I've tried to do, and it
really truly does illuminate your path
and make it straight. It's a process fo sho.
Sorry you're discouraged :/

Yeah, me too, Noxot. Often enough. But I manage to get what I need.
Also, I first heard about God at church, but I first connected with him personally, at home, about 6 months later.
So when I had to get up close and personal with The One True Church that first day of first grade parochial school,... he had my back.
Institutions of any kind have never impressed me more than him... for long, anywAy.
But I have come to consider Christianity to be interpersonal, so Sunlover's pastor gave the advice I follow, and on a broader basis. It's working out. Things are getting better all the time, not without occasional setbacks, but grace abounds.

 

[Rick Otto]

oh that's right, so i can be around people who don't like me, who get offended after I slip up and say a few offensive things to them, yeah i totally wanna be doing that. cause i realllyyyyy wanna be around people who "ignore fools" and around people who are so concerned about belief structures more than what good people do. AND you know, all this manner stuff that you do, like, you take it so seriously so that I have a hard time trying to be honest even though i don't wanna be a jerk. being alone is just better for me I think.

people are people. Christians are not some higher classed being that I ought to hang around out of compulsion.

then people are all like "the bible, the bible" and what am i to do? i got quotes for days, but what use is it when we don't see the same thing? but there are plenty of great Christians out there.

LOL! You're simply one of those desert monk types who prefer the simplicity and purity of life that uninterrupted self discipline affords.
Unlike you though, the real desert monks were disdainful of the urban bishops' lives full of conveniences and compromises that seemed hypocritical.
So enjoy the desert, but at the price of some human companionship, eh?

 

[Noxot]

there are so many ways to fall.

there are people alone who are in crowds and
there are people alone who are in crowds

 

[Noxot]

I find it an evil when I separate myself from those that God loves but that is more to do with the nature of the spirit. however it reflects back into this world as well. so what is first is the primal reality but God does not wish that I hate what he loves. good and evil seems to be something deeper than appearances or actions?

I fall short just like most of us do and to think myself better and to flee is wrong, but to think that I need others is like saying I don't need God. others of Gods children exist and to cut myself off from his family means to cut myself off from God, but reality is such that I am me and everyone else is themselves and that helps to define us all and thus separation or togetherness are both possible outcomes of existing with God.

what i see is a endless reality and I happen to be in one of them where many of Gods souls are at. they help to define my soul regardless if I am with or without them and so i find the two greatest commands to be about this reality and happening in myself too.

Matt 22:34-40 (YLT)
and the Pharisees, having heard that he did silence the Sadducees, were gathered together unto him; and one of them, a lawyer, did question, tempting him, and saying, `Teacher, which is the great command in the Law?' And Jesus said to him, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding-- this is a first and great command; and the second is like to it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; on these--the two commands--all the law and the prophets do hang.'

so those who worship the Father must worship in Spirit and in Truth. those are more than an exposition of commands to be followed. spirit is deeper than flesh. one can only fulfill the law in Christ.