.

[jimmyjimmy]

When we confess Jesus as Lord, our hearts are filled with the Spirit, because only out of ABUNDANCE of heart the mouth speaks. Why Spirit? Because no one can confess Jesus as Lord except by the Spirit. The difference between an unsaved confessor (demons fall uder this category too, since they too can believe and tremble) and a saved confessor is that the saved confessor has a clear conscience, while the unsaved doesn't (or he/she has a "seared" conscience and can no longer feel the guilt/convictions that are still present). He/she is saved because bad conscience ruins faith (1 Timothy 1:19) but their conscience is clear. They too have faith in Jesus as Lord, which they make alive by means of periodically confessing Jesus as Lord in prayer, or talking about Him as about the Word that became flesh. Speaking is an "act", and it is "acts" that make our faith "alive" (James 2:17). And the work of keeping conscience always clear (it is also a work), helps them to keep their faith alive.

What you say is interesting, but I would need clarification to understand it fully. The clear conscience part is of most interest. Would you mind expanding on that?

 

[Demetrius194]

What you say is interesting, but I would need clarification to understand it fully. The clear conscience part is of most interest. Would you mind expanding on that?

It is when you are free of any guilt, guilt is the key word here

 

[ViaCrucis]

What do you base His presence on?

The promises He attached to His Word and Sacraments? He never promised to be present in our feelings, but He did promise to be present in the external means of Word and Sacrament.

The Spirit is present when and where God has said He would be present. Where Christ is, so is the Holy Spirit. Christ present in Word and Sacrament means the Spirit is most certainly present.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sunlover1]

The promises He attached to His Word and Sacraments? He never promised to be present in our feelings, but He did promise to be present in the external means of Word and Sacrament.

The Spirit is present when and where God has said He would be present. Where Christ is, so is the Holy Spirit. Christ present in Word and Sacrament means the Spirit is most certainly present.

-CryptoLutheran

Not sure what you mean when you say 'sacraments" but I too base His presence on
the fact that HE SAID that He'd never leave me or forget me, that He was with me
even til the end of time !!!!
and 'sometimes' I can physically "feel" His presence and it even sometimes makes
me weak kneed and giddy! But that's how my flesh responds, (i think)
And that's not a basis for His presence.
AND, i truly don't see ANYone suggesting that it is theirs.

 

[sunlover1]

When we confess Jesus as Lord, our hearts are filled with the Spirit, because only out of ABUNDANCE of heart the mouth speaks. Why Spirit? Because no one can confess Jesus as Lord except by the Spirit. The difference between an unsaved confessor (demons fall uder this category too, since they too can believe and tremble) and a saved confessor is that the saved confessor has a clear conscience, while the unsaved doesn't (or he/she has a "seared" conscience and can no longer feel the guilt/convictions that are still present). He/she is saved because bad conscience ruins faith (1 Timothy 1:19) but their conscience is clear. They too have faith in Jesus as Lord, which they make alive by means of periodically confessing Jesus as Lord in prayer, or talking about Him as about the Word that became flesh. Speaking is an "act", and it is "acts" that make our faith "alive" (James 2:17). And the work of keeping conscience always clear (it is also a work), helps them to keep their faith alive.

It sure is 'work'. It's a 'fight', fighting the good fight of faith.
I once attended a church that was very critical and condemning.
THey taught about how ANGRY God is (He's not angry at His kids)
I totally lost faith in God. I would try to pray but had no hope that my
Father would hear my prayer because my rightousness is filthy rags.
So on it went for days/weeks.
It was hell on earth, truly.
We MUST be so careful who we let speak into our minds/hearts.
That's why, the louder folks yell about rules here in GT, the more
they spur us on to yell about God's love!
JESUS
DID
IT
ALL!!!!
Glory to the Lamb!

 

[Demetrius194]

It sure is 'work'. It's a 'fight', fighting the good fight of faith.
I once attended a church that was very critical and condemning.
THey taught about how ANGRY God is (He's not angry at His kids)
I totally lost faith in God. I would try to pray but had no hope that my
Father would hear my prayer because my rightousness is filthy rags.
So on it went for days/weeks.
It was hell on earth, truly.
We MUST be so careful who we let speak into our minds/hearts.
That's why, the louder folks yell about rules here in GT, the more
they spur us on to yell about God's love!
JESUS
DID
IT
ALL!!!!
Glory to the Lamb!

Unfortunately sometimes the evil spirits living in the hearts of men try to take rule over as big human systems they can and cause jeopardy and long-term damage as much as they can, and they work through people

 

[D2wing]

Acts 19:1-6. This is a very clear description of the difference of being baptized in the faith and baptized in the Spirit. they are two separate things. Yes all who have accepted Jesus Christ for who he said he was and made him their Lord and Savior have the Holy Spirit. There is the Baptism of water. However, there is another baptism of fire, of the Holy Spirit that results in supernatural gifts.
Some of you are determined to deny scripture and the full power of the Holy Spirit as well.
Our salvation may be accompanied by feelings, or it may not. Everyone I know that gets the baptism of the Holy Spirit has experience some sort of physical manifestation. Strong presence of the Spirit may cause a sensation in some. It may not in others. Either way, Jesus said his sheep will know his voice. It is through the power of the Holy Spirit that he speaks to us.
Shame on you that claim ignorance of the Bible, that claim the Bible does not speak of the baptism of the Holy Spirit when it clearly does. And shame on you when you claim that believing unto salvation is the same thing. The scriptures witness against you. Read the above passages Acts, Corinthians, and other Scriptures. Failure to read the Bible is not a valid argument.

 

[swordsman1]

Acts 19:1-6. This is a very clear description of the difference of being baptized in the faith and baptized in the Spirit. they are two separate things.

That passage doesn't mention baptism of the Spirit.

However, there is another baptism of fire, of the Holy Spirit that results in supernatural gifts.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit does not give you supernatural gifts. Rather it gives you entry into the church and is given to all at salvation:

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For [a]by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body."​

Baptism of the Spirit is the gift of the Spirit:

Acts 1:4-6 “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
​

And the gift of the Spirit is received at salvation:

Acts 2:38 "Repent....and you will receive the gift of the Spirit".
Gal 3:2 "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?"​

 

[D2wing]

He asked if they had received the Holy Spirit. The meaning is clear to a honest person. You are clearly not of that camp. I will avoid the foolish arguments of the unlearned such as yourself. If the gift of the Holy Spirit came with salvation why would he have asked? you deceive yourself. Satan has caused people like you to oppose the power of the Holy Spirit to weaken the body of Christ.

 

[swordsman1]

He asked if they had received the Holy Spirit. The meaning is clear to a honest person. You are clearly not of that camp. I will avoid the foolish arguments of the unlearned such as yourself. If the gift of the Holy Spirit came with salvation why would he have asked? you deceive yourself. Satan has caused people like you to oppose the power of the Holy Spirit to weaken the body of Christ.

You are referring to Act 19:1-6? The twelve men that Paul found at Ephesus we not Christians. They were disciples of John the Baptist. If they were Christians they would have known about the Holy Spirit which Christ had promised. But they said they had never even heard of the Holy Spirit. When Paul realised this he gave them the gospel. They then believed, were baptized in the name of Jesus (they clearly hadn't before) and received the Holy Spirit.

If you have not received the Holy Spirit then you are not a Christian:

Romans 8:9 "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." ​

So all Christians have the gift of the Holy Spirit:

Romans 5:5 "God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us."
1 John 4:13 "This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit."
1 Corinthians 6:19 "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"​

 

[D2wing]

If you read 5 and 6, you will see that they received Christ, after that in the next verse, he laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost, including speaking in tongues. Those are not the only examples but truth does you no good. Deceitfully misusing scripture seems to be your specialty. Instead of arguing with me which is foolish since I know the truth, you should be seeking God. You lie and divide the brethren, be careful for yourself.

 

[swordsman1]

If you read 5 and 6, you will see that they received Christ, after that in the next verse, he laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost, including speaking in tongues. Those are not the only examples but truth does you no good. Deceitfully misusing scripture seems to be your specialty. Instead of arguing with me which is foolish since I know the truth, you should be seeking God. You lie and divide the brethren, be careful for yourself.

Yes they believed, were baptized, and received the Holy Spirit, all around the same time.

Or are you saying believers only receive the Holy Spirit after the laying on of hands? If so did Cornelius' household receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands?

Acts 10:44 "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message."​

And is the bible lying when it says:

Romans 8:9 "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."
Acts 2:38 "Repent....and you will receive the gift of the Spirit".
Gal 3:2 "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?"​

 

[Tigger45]

Hi,

I have seen this kind of church, and it seems to be pastor specific.

LOVE,

Oh I agree that God works through some pastors more than others. That would be an important ingredient of this occurring more often in some congregations then in others. For me only participating in worship services of congregations that would fall under the term orthodox is also vital to ensure you're hearing from the Spirit of God and not from any other sources. Also congregations that strive for truth and love, even though we will fall short, would also make a fertile atmosphere in which to work in. And last but not least we as individuals must keep our hearing tuned to the Spirit of God by daily scripture reading and prayer.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The promises He attached to His Word and Sacraments? He never promised to be present in our feelings, but He did promise to be present in the external means of Word and Sacrament.

The Spirit is present when and where God has said He would be present. Where Christ is, so is the Holy Spirit. Christ present in Word and Sacrament means the Spirit is most certainly present.

Amen. And, sometimes I sense that (or so I think) and sometimes I don't, yet I believe it nonetheless!

 

[sunlover1]

Yes they believed, were baptized, and received the Holy Spirit, all around the same time.

Or are you saying believers only receive the Holy Spirit after the laying on of hands? If so did Cornelius' household receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands?

Acts 10:44 "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message."​

And is the bible lying when it says:

Romans 8:9 "But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."
Acts 2:38 "Repent....and you will receive the gift of the Spirit".
Gal 3:2 "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?"​

Amen, and of course Scripture cannot lie!
We receive the Spirit by faith!
What exactly did Paul mean when he
told the Romans that he longed to
be with them that he might impart
some "Spiritual gift" to them?
(Romans 1:11)

 

[swordsman1]

What exactly did Paul mean when he
told the Romans that he longed to
be with them that he might impart
some "Spiritual gift" to them?
(Romans 1:11)

This is my understanding of Romans 1:11. Paul is not saying his is able to grant spiritual gifts to others as it first appears. Spiritual gifts are sovereignly granted to believers only by God himself via the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:11 "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills."

No, the answer lays in the Greek word for 'impart' (μεταδίδωμι) which is to do with sharing rather than granting. See the other 4 usages of the word (Luke 3:11; Eph 4:28; 1 Thess 2:8; Rom 12:8).

BDAG lexicon:
μεταδίδωμι ... give (a part of), impart, share...something to or with someone.

In other words it is Paul's own spiritual gifts that he wishes to share with the Romans in order to help them (his teaching, leadership, prophecy, exhortation etc). Not grant them new gifts.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This is my understanding of Romans 1:11. Paul is not saying his is able to grant spiritual gifts to others as it first appears. Spiritual gifts are sovereignly granted to believers only by God himself via the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:11 "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills."

No, the answer lays in the Greek word for 'impart' (μεταδίδωμι) which is to do with sharing rather than granting. See the other 4 usages of the word (Luke 3:11; Eph 4:28; 1 Thess 2:8; Rom 12:8).

BDAG lexicon:
μεταδίδωμι ... give (a part of), impart, share...something to or with someone.

In other words it is Paul's own spiritual gifts that he wishes to share with the Romans in order to help them (his teaching, leadership, prophecy, exhortation etc). Not grant them new gifts.

I've read many of your posts recently. They are always thoughtful, scripturally-based and sound exegetically. We need more like you on CF.

 

[sunlover1]

This is my understanding of Romans 1:11. Paul is not saying his is able to grant spiritual gifts to others as it first appears. Spiritual gifts are sovereignly granted to believers only by God himself via the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:11 "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills."

No, the answer lays in the Greek word for 'impart' (μεταδίδωμι) which is to do with sharing rather than granting. See the other 4 usages of the word (Luke 3:11; Eph 4:28; 1 Thess 2:8; Rom 12:8).

BDAG lexicon:
μεταδίδωμι ... give (a part of), impart, share...something to or with someone.

In other words it is Paul's own spiritual gifts that he wishes to share with the Romans in order to help them (his teaching, leadership, prophecy, exhortation etc). Not grant them new gifts.

Thank you. And Gills agrees with you, as does Jamieson-Fausset-Brown
so are you then saying that God the Spirit does not work all these things
(and distribute as He wills) through the laying on of hands?
Or are you saying that the passage you quote in 1 Cor 12:11 isn't even
about distributing the gifts of the Spirit at all?

 

[swordsman1]

Thank you. And Gills agrees with you, as does Jamieson-Fausset-Brown
so are you then saying that God the Spirit does not work all these things
(and distribute as He wills) through the laying on of hands?
Or are you saying that the passage you quote in 1 Cor 12:11 isn't even
about distributing the gifts of the Spirit at all?

The Holy Spirit does not need a human agent to give someone a spiritual gift.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I feel peace, warmth, comfort, joy, happiness..a tinglly sensation concentrated in chest area

I get much of the same when praying and devotion time with God. Peace and comfort is a familiar emotion when connecting with him.

I'm going to tell everyone about a Spirit Filled Church. This is significant, because I've always been a "non-clerical" Christian, who doesn't believe in "organized" religion in principle. As a rule, I think people in general tend to mess up everything they touch, especially when they get organized. So "organized religion" sounds like an oxymoron to me, like "military-intelligence", or "political-freedom".

Anyway, it's several years after Hurricane Katrina.. I'm unemployed and homeless and walking from New Orleans to Baton Rouge, Louisiana where I have enough money to catch a Greyhound bus to Houston, Texas. About twenty miles this side of Baton Rouge, at 3 AM in the morning I'm walking down the side of the road through a small town. I'm exhausted and hungry. I look and I'm astonished to see the doors of a church standing wide open with the lights on. I needed to refill my water bottles, so I walked up to the door and holler inside. Honestly I was a little spooked, because I half expected to find someone lying dead on the floor of a heart attack, or something worse.

That's a beautiful story - thanks for sharing. What a special memory and experience.

A minister fella steps to the door and invites me inside. I was carrying a backpack and pretty smelly, so I know I must have been a pretty scary sight at 3 AM in the morning, and yet he looks happy to see me. I ask him, "Why are you here at 3 AM" ?! He answers, "This is God's house, and he didn't tell me to close the doors", "I'm just a minister here".

He asked me next if I needed anything, and I told him I could use a couple hours of sleep. He got a blanket and showed me a spot inside on the floor where I could rest. When I awoke, there was a sandwich on a plate sitting on the floor next to me with a can of coke. He appears again and asks if I need any money. I explained I had enough to catch a bus in Baton Rouge. He says, "Wait a minute, I've got an idea".. He returns and says "Let's go".. I asked him, "What are we doing" ? He replied "I've got a car, and God just told me to lock the Church doors and drive you to Baton Rouge".

Funny thing was, I don't remember the name of the church, or what denomination it was, because he never spoke about any of that. When we reached the bus terminal, I quickly gathered my gear out of the car, thanked the minister for the help, and started walking toward the door of the bus station. I stopped, turned around, looked at him and said, "There really is a God, isn't there" ? He said, "Of course there is".

To this day, I don't recall the name of the church, or the minister's name,.. but I do distinctly remember having visited a "Spirit Filled Church" in a small town in Louisiana at 3 AM in the morning in November 2009.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you" (John 13:34, NAS).