70th Week - It Is Still Pending

DaDad

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However, I am going to agree with you on this one, because you are not referring to the pretrib doctrine, ...

Actually I AM referring to ANY Tribulation era "rapture" expectation. And of course, what good are multiple "explanations" (pre-/mid-/post-) without ALL of them being WRONG. Otherwise there'd be AGREEMENT, -- but there is NONE.

The learned man receives the "rapture" timeline from Rev. 20, but the man who believes myths follows false teachers.

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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DaDad

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Like Walvoord...
If you like Walvoord so much, then maybe you can ask to him why he ignored HIS OWN EXPERTS:


“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”
John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217 - 218

Per Walvoord's own conclusion:
"... The best explanation seems to be that beginning with Neehemiah's decree ... "
John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 227

Perhaps Montgomery, Young, Keil, Kliefoth, and all of Walvoord's other experts saw the complexities of Scripture and/or failures of History, but Walvoord was willing to disobey the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9 to salvage some type of ancient fulfillment. Could it be that the angel is CORRECT, and that the "legion" of [any] interpretations" [ie., pre-/mid-/post-/pan-, etc.] are due to false doctrines?

“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”

Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699


It seems to me that Scripture and History are SIMPLE. It's when people parse ~what the meaning of "is" is~ that nonsense is introduced.

And ... there's plenty of nonsense.

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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keras

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Jesus was crucified in the middle of the 70th seven. 3-1/2 years later the 70th seven ended; with the martyrdom of Stephen. There is no gap.
Daniel 9:26 After the sixty two [plus seven] have passed, the anointed Prince will be removed.....
NOT; After sixty nine and a half of a 'week' have passed...….
You belief is wrong, proved by the several prophesies of the time periods in Revelation; 1260 days, 42 months and 3 1/2 years, all referring to the second half of the 70th 'week', which will take place just prior to the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.

We have no date for the martyrdom of Stephen. Guesswork is very bad exegesis.
 
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DaDad

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Daniel 9:26 After the sixty two [plus seven] ... Guesswork is very bad exegesis.
So is butchering -- or as Newton defined it, "doing violence" to scripture. But if you can come up with any precedent (in Scripture, or in ANY society, or in ANY common usage) where a ~pair of shoes cost seven plus sixty-two dollars, plus tax~ then you may have a defensible argument.

But until then, it's "very bad exegesis".

Wait a minute. What was I thinking? Posters dish out correction, but NEVER ACCEPT correction. -- So what's that word that starts with an "h", and I think it sounds like "hypocrite". Oh yeah, it is "hypocrite". Doh.

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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Seville90210

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Nobody who is a true "born again" Christian will be "left behind" at the return of Christ.


.

There's no such thing as a "true" born again Christian. You are either born again or you're not. There's no in between: no professing carnal born again Christian pretender. Someone who's born again will take on the nature of the spirit, not the flesh. You can't serve two masters: the spirit and the flesh, at the same time.

John 3:6 King James Version (KJV)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The differences between the video I'm linking versus the one you linked are as different as night and day. This one covers left behind based on numerous scriptures. The commentator gave at least 30 scriptures with explanations for each verse.



The video you're pushing is based on a bunch of "what ifs?" What if the world isn't really as what many had portrayed it? What if the church is not raptured? What if the church is left unprepared to go through the tribulation? etc! The entire video is all speculation.

The video poses a bunch of biblical questions but not once did it bother to look for answers in the bible, never a scripture mentioned. Just a bunch man-made theories of pure fiction with no answers. And you actually bought two copies? Embarrassing!

You're ignoring all the "I wills" found in the bible under Jeremiah 31:31-33 and listening to too much "what ifs" found in a man-made video.
 
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JLB777

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Jesus was crucified in the middle of the 70th seven. 3-1/2 years later the 70th seven ended; with the martyrdom of Stephen. There is no gap.


Utter Nonsense.

There are three distinct and separated time frames to the 70 weeks prophecy.


7 weeks
62 weeks
1 week

Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:24-27


Messiah was crucified, "cut off" after the 69th week, and before the beginning of the 70th week.

  • And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;


After the 69 weeks [7 weeks and 62 weeks] Messiah shall be cut off [28-33 AD] and the city and sanctuary were destroyed [70 AD].


These events happened before the 70th week begins, which in the 70th week, there shall be temple activities again, which means the temple will be rebuilt first.



JLB
 
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BABerean2

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There's no such thing as a "true" born again Christian. You are either born again or you're not. There's no in between: no professing carnal born again Christian pretender. Someone who's born again will take on the nature of the spirit, not the flesh. You can't serve two masters: the spirit and the flesh, at the same time.

John 3:6 King James Version (KJV)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The differences between the video I'm linking versus the one you linked are as different as night and day. This one covers left behind based on numerous scriptures. The commentator gave at least 30 scriptures with explanations for each verse.



The video you're pushing is based on a bunch of "what ifs?" What if the world isn't really as what many had portrayed it? What if the church is not raptured? What if the church is left unprepared to go through the tribulation? etc! The entire video is all speculation.

The video poses a bunch of biblical questions but not once did it bother to look for answers in the bible, never a scripture mentioned. Just a bunch man-made theories of pure fiction with no answers. And you actually bought two copies? Embarrassing!

You're ignoring all the "I wills" found in the bible under Jeremiah 31:31-33 and listening to too much "what ifs?"

You speak the truth about who are "born again" Christians found in John chapter 3, and then you turn around and use a video which claims there will be a division among the Body of Christ.

This is double-talk, in the same way that attempting to make two different New Covenants is double-talk.

What is "Embarrassing" is the fact that those promoting your doctrine fail to mention that you are promoting a doctrine which is less than 200 years old.

Why don't you tell those sitting in the pews that John Nelson Darby brought your doctrine to America about the time of the Civil War?

Ignoring the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18 shows the truth about your man-made doctrine.


Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


New Covenant Theology Made Simple: Jeremiah 31:31-34,

David H. J. Gay Ministry

.
 
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Seville90210

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You speak the truth about who are "born again" Christians found in John chapter 3, and then you turn around and use a video which claims there will be a division among the Body of Christ.

You're not understanding what I said. You're letting your ego dictate your emotions and not thinking straight or reading the text carefully.

There are two types of Christians, a true Christian and a professing Christian. One is born again, the other is not. Those professing to be a Christian think they're born again but are just deceiving themselves.
 
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BABerean2

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There are two types of Christians, a true Christian and a professing Christian. One is born again, the other is not.

You can call yourself a horse.
That does not make you a horse.

There is only one type of Christian, instead of two.
As you correctly stated, they are "born again" of the Spirit of God.



Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
(See Hebrews 8:11)

.
 
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DaDad

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After the 69 weeks [7 weeks and 62 weeks] ...
Yep, I'll agree as soon as you can cite ANY Scripture or society where ~a pair of shoes cost seven and sixty-two dollars, plus tax~. Until then, please stop assuming "sixty-nine".
Thanks,
DaDad
 
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BABerean2

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Yep, I'll agree as soon as you can cite ANY Scripture or society where ~a pair of shoes cost seven and sixty-two dollars, plus tax~. Until then, please stop assuming "sixty-nine".
Thanks,
DaDad

When you can cite ANY scripture or society where an angel of God reveals a timeline concerning buying a pair of shoes, please let us know...

.
 
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DaDad

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When you can cite ANY scripture or society where an angel of God reveals a timeline concerning buying a pair of shoes, please let us know...

There IS A TIMELINE BUYING SHOES. It's the same timeline as your preferred "seven and sixty-two". And it is from an angel -- Satan, and you repeat it and defend it.

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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BABerean2

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And it is from an angel -- Satan, and you repeat it and defend it.

From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

It was written hundreds of years before Walvoord and his buddies were born.


Dan 9:21 Yea, while I was speaking in prayer, euen the man Gabriel, whome I had seene before in the vision, came flying, and touched mee about the time of the euening oblation.
Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and sayd, O Daniel, I am now come forth to giue thee knowledge and vnderstanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commaundement came foorth, and I am come to shewe thee, for thou art greatly beloued: therefore vnderstande the matter and consider the vision.
Dan 9:24 Seuentie weekes are determined vpon thy people and vpon thine holy citie, to finish the wickednes, and to seale vp the sinnes, and to reconcile the inquitie, and to bring in euerlasting righteousnesse, and to seale vp the vision and prophecie, and to anoynt the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Knowe therefore and vnderstande, that from the going foorth of the commaundement to bring againe the people, and to builde Ierusalem, vnto Messiah the prince, shall be seuen weekes and threescore and two weekes, and the streete shalbe built againe, and the wall euen in a troublous time.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weekes, shal Messiah be slaine, and shal haue nothing,, and the people of the prince that shal come, shal destroy the citie and the Sanctuarie, and the end thereof shalbe with a flood: and vnto the end of the battell it shalbe destroyed by desolations.
Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.
 
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DaDad

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From the 1599 Geneva Bible,
Is that GOD's original text? If so, then OK. You're good to go. No problems here. I'm with you. It's indisputable, incontrovertible, and undeniable. You da man. High FIVE. Buy you a drink. Take my seat. Have a cigar. Stay a while.

Oh wait, the Masoretic Text is the ORIGINAL. You've relied on a a translation, and a poor one at that. Well get out of here. Get lost. Kick rocks. Go bother someone else. Call someone who cares. Are you still here?

Yeah, when you find a precedent for your "seven and sixty-two", let me know. Until then ...

Thanks,
DaDad
 
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BABerean2

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Is that GOD's original text? If so, then OK. You're good to go. No problems here. I'm with you. It's indisputable, incontrovertible, and undeniable. You da man. High FIVE. Buy you a drink. Take my seat. Have a cigar. Stay a while.

Oh wait, the Masoretic Text is the ORIGINAL. You've relied on a a translation, and a poor one at that. Well get out of here. Get lost. Kick rocks. Go bother someone else. Call someone who cares. Are you still here?

Yeah, when you find a precedent for your "seven and sixty-two", let me know. Until then ...

Thanks,
DaDad


.
 
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jgr

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Is that GOD's original text? If so, then OK. You're good to go. No problems here. I'm with you. It's indisputable, incontrovertible, and undeniable. You da man. High FIVE. Buy you a drink. Take my seat. Have a cigar. Stay a while.

Oh wait, the Masoretic Text is the ORIGINAL. You've relied on a a translation, and a poor one at that. Well get out of here. Get lost. Kick rocks. Go bother someone else. Call someone who cares. Are you still here?

Yeah, when you find a precedent for your "seven and sixty-two", let me know. Until then ...

Thanks,
DaDad

The Masoretic text is pre-dated by the Septuagint by several centuries.
 
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DaDad

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The Masoretic text is pre-dated by the Septuagint by several centuries.
Pppppppppppp. Yeah, the ORIGINAL Masoretic was copied into Latin, and then it was lost to history, so the Jews copied the Septuagint back into the Masoretic. GREAT JOB.

Are you familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls? Are you aware that they VALIDATE the Masoretic Text?

Pretty funny how many lies we're told, and how many lies we repeat back,
DaDad
 
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