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"70 Weeks" of lunar years

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by aChristian, Apr 8, 2002.

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  1. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    Acts,

    So accurate that the critics all say it was written after the fact. :(

    But evidently not accurate enough to convince futurists that it was even about Antiochus. For they say it was only about the antichrist yet to come. :sigh:
     
  2. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

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    aChristian:
    I think they are, for the church is woefully prepared for what is coming.

    I believe it could. Jesus said it's possible for those who believe to subsequently "be offended" by tribulation and "fall away":

    "The same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended" (Matthew 13:20-21).

    "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (Matthew 24:9-12).

    "They, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation [peirasmos] fall away" (Luke 8:13).

    "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try [peirasmos] you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy" (1 Peter 4:12-13).

    I believe Jesus told us everything we'd have to face beforehand for a good reason, so that we would be less likely to be offended and fall away: "Take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things (Mark 13:23). "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" (Hosea 4:6). To be forewarned is to be forearmed: mentally, emotionally, and spiritually (and possibly even physically, if the Lord so leads).

    I believe end-time beliefs such as pre-trib, preterism, and postmillenialism could be setting up many in the church for great disappointment and confusion and the falling away from the faith: "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith" (1 Timothy 4:1), and this departure from the faith will happen before Jesus comes to rapture us: "We beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him... Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [apostasy] first" (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 3).

    Did Jesus? (Matthew 24:15)

    Who fulfilled or will fulfill Daniel 11:36-39; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:5-8, 18; and Revelation 19:19-20?
     
  3. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    Postrib,

    I wrote: I believe Daniel referred to two different "abominations."...

    You asked: Did Jesus? (Matthew 24:15)

    No. I believe he referred only to the "abomination" spoken of in Daniel's "70 Weeks" prophecy, Titus aided by Rome's armies. However, since the other "abomination" spoken of in Daniel, Antiochus aided by High Priest Menelaus, probably was meant to prefigure the antichrist who is yet to come, as Titus may have also, it is possible in a larger sense Jesus may have had both of these "abominations" in mind if his words were meant to also have a larger end time application to the antichrist to come. This all gets a bit complicated with "types" and "antitypes" figuring into things. : )

    You asked: Who fulfilled or will fulfill Daniel 11:36-39;

    I should complain, as I often do, about you asking me to do your homework. But since this a simple cut and paste of something I have previously discussed and saved to disk, I'll let you go this time. However, the Hebrew words I have cited do not reproduce here well. But you should still get the gist of my comments.

    Dan. 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods; and he shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished; for that which is determined shall be done.

    And the king shall do according to his will; — Julius Caesar assumed the title of "dictator for life" (February 14, 44 BCE) after his successful campaigns against Gaul, Greece, Africa, Egypt, Asia Minor and Spain, which made him the military leader of the world. The text begins with i=l#M#h^ wn{wx)r=k! hc*u*w+ (and he will have done as his will the king), which is similar to verse 11:3, where wn{wx)r=K! hc*u*w+ br^ lv*m=m! lv^m*W rwB)G! i=l#m# dm^u*w+ (and he will have stood king mighty and he will have ruled realm much and he will have done as his will) is used to introduce the reign of Alexander the Great. There is a gap of about 140 years between the rule of Xerxes in verse 11:2 and Alexander's rule in verse 11:3. The gap here between the demise of Antiochus Epiphanes and the rise to power of Julius Caesar is about the same. The expression wN{K^-lu^ (on his place), which is used to show the immediate succession from one king to another (Vs 7, 20, 21), is absent here between verses 35 and 36. In considering only the grammatical form of this verse in context with the rest of the chapter, I conclude that this verse introduces another king.7 The phrase i=l#M#h^ wn{wx)r=k! hc*u*w+, in this verse, which uses the verb hc*u (done), in the perfect state, is describing Caesar's final position of a world dominating leader, which established Rome as a world power. The rest of the 11th chapter proceeds to describe the events that lead up to that condition. Therefore, this verse describes the introduction of another king in a manner similar to that of verse 3.

    and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods; — Caesar had held a variety of political positions before he was elected as consul in 60 BCE. In Spain he served as finance minister, chief priest, and also as governor. In Rome he was responsible for all building projects. The Romans had many gods but their chief god was the god of Republicanism, which was the god Caesar would eventually overthrow. Later he had statues made with his image standing on top of a globe; one of these he placed in the temple of Romulus.

    and he shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished; for that which is determined shall be done. — Caesar's skillful tactics as a political leader and military commander insured his steady rise to power. The definite article "the" is absent in the original text. It was really an indignation that he would carry out against the Republic and its constitution. The Romans hated the word "rex" (king), yet this is what Caesar would become in the form of a dictator.

    37 Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall magnify himself above all.

    Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers, — Without regard for the god of Republicanism, Caesar formed an illegal coalition with Pompey and Crassus aimed at gaining military power.

    nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall magnify himself above all. — Caesar's desire for conquest left him with little time to engage in the pursuit of women. After Caesar learned that a rumor was circulating alleging that his second wife, Pompeia, had taken a lover, he promptly divorced her (62 BCE). He declared that "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." Caesar proclaimed that he was a descendant of Aeneas, the son of the goddess Venus. He had no regard for Rome's gods, traditions, or even the true God, Yahweh.

    38 But in his place shall he honor the god of fortresses; and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honor with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

    But in his place shall he honor the god of fortresses; — The senate voted for all military dictatorships to be condemned (50 BCE). Shortly afterward, the consul Gaius Marcellus, acting without the authority of the senate, ordered General Pompey to attack Caesar as a public enemy. Pompey prepared his troops for the ensuing battle. Caesar made an offer to relinquish his command on the condition that Pompey do likewise. After his offer was rejected Caesar made his famous march across the Rubicon into Italy. On his way to Rome he acquired the support of Pompey's own forces who had defected. His advance, in the dead of winter, was so swift that he completely overwhelmed the resistance.

    and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honor with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. — Caesar had no regard for the constitution or the decrees of the senate. After entering Rome he set about reorganizing the government and the management of the state treasury. He was now in a position to finance his war effort against Pompey's troops in Spain. He also acquired citizenship for those who came to his aid in the "defense" of Rome.

    39 And he shall deal with the strongest fortresses by the help of a foreign god: whosoever acknowledgeth [him] he will increase with glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for a price.

    And he shall deal with the strongest fortresses by the help of a foreign god: — Caesar laid siege to Massilia with help from the Germanic cavalry. He left a portion of his army at the city and pressed on with the remainder to defeat Pompey's forces in Spain in little over a month; on his way back to Rome (49 BCE) he accepted the surrender of Massilia. Caesar sailed for Greece in very early 48 BCE, and in the face of overwhelming odds he routed Pompey's superior numbers at Pharsalus. Pompey took flight into Egypt.8

    whosoever acknowledgeth [him] he will increase with glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, — Caesar had appointed those who where loyal to him to important positions; the praetor Lepidus was over the affairs of Rome, Marcus Antonius was governor of Italy and commander of the troops, Curio administered the food supplies from North Africa, and Dolabella and Gaius Antonius guarded Illyria from invasion by Pompey's forces.

    and shall divide the land for a price. — During the civil war Rome's economy had suffered severely, and in 48 BCE, when Caesar was elected consul, he set about introducing laws before the senate to relieve the burden of debt and to restore the economy. Caesar also enacted many civil rights laws, restoring to prosperity those who had suffered at the hands of the consul Sulla and General Pompey. It was the creditors who suffered a loss when they were forced to accept land from debtors at pre-war price levels to satisfy their obligations.

    You asked: [Who fulfilled or will fulfill] 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 ?

    The antichrist to come.

    You asked: [Who fulfilled or will fulfill] Revelation 13:5-8, 18 ?

    The antichrist to come who will rule over a new one world government, aided by someone called "the false prophet." Maybe this "false prophet" will be some highly respected Christian minister he will appoint to serve as his "minister of free religious expression" to gain Christians' support, before he does an about face and outlaws all religion. Who knows? Who can say? All we can do now is guess. Your guess is as good as mine.

    You asked: [Who fulfilled or will fulfill] Revelation 19:19-20 ?

    The antichrist to come aided by his "false prophet" again, whoever or whatever that turns out to be.

    Our full preterist friends will disagree with my last few answers. I am a partial preterist. For I have found that , like in most areas of dispute, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

    Oh, by the way, I agree with you that it is wise for us to be prepared for what might be coming our way. But it can be just as bad as being unprepared or even worse if we are prepared for the wring thing. If, for instance, someone is sure that the antichrist will be a man who gets involved with the political affairs of modern physical Israel, and then fails to recognize the real antichrist because he does not do any such thing, that could be very dangerous. I tend to believe that when the antichrist shows up most Christians will not recognize him as being the antichrist because they will be looking for a different kind of antichrist. Just as most first centuruy Jews did not recognize the Christ because they were looking for a different kind of Christ.

    Mike
     
  4. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

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    Is that what Jesus said? Did he refer to only one of multiple abominations of desolations spoken of by Daniel the prophet, or to the singular abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet?

    Wasn't their chief god Jupiter? Did Julius Caesar magnify himself above Jupiter and the Roman Pantheon, or speak marvelous things against YHWH? (Daniel 11:36)

    I believe the same king is referred to throughout Daniel 11:21-45.

    I believe Daniel 11:36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, and Revelation 13:6 all refer to the same action by the same person.

    I believe Israel is included in the nations of Revelation 13:7.

    I think the problem may be the reverse, in that many Christians will think a predecessor of the Antichrist is really him. I believe we won't know without doubt who the Antichrist is until he sits in the Jewish temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

    I believe there will be a magnificent predecessor to the Antichrist who will conquer and unite the Middle East (Daniel 11:13-19) who could come from Iraq or Syria. After he suddenly dies or disappears, his weak successor (Daniel 11:20) will be followed by the Antichrist himself, who will take control stealthily (Daniel 11:21) and make a peace treaty under which he will consolidate his power (Daniel 11:23-24).

    I believe most Christians will have been certain that the magnificent predecessor to the Antichrist was the Antichrist himself, so that when he suddenly disappears from the scene they will be left bewildered and more easily open to deception.

    The war of the magnificent predecessor (Daniel 11:13-19) and its aftermath of famines and epidemics (Revelation 6:4-8) may be "the beginning of sorrows" spoken of by Christ (Matthew 24:7-8), after which comes great deceptions and apostasy (Matthew 24:11-12), all leading up to the rising up of the Antichrist and the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).
     
  5. GW

    GW Veteran

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    Hiya Mike.

    Just one thought. I noticed you still think 2 Thess 2:3-7 is future. I believe it is clearly fulfilled.

    (1) Just by reading the passage itself we note that the one who was to takeover the Temple complex was already being restrained in Paul's day by those who had the Temple under their control (Roman procurator and the Temple managers). Paul even reminds the Thessalonians that they know exactly to whom Paul is referring. This, obviously, was a 1st century event.

    (2) The falling away spoken of in that passage is documented history in our bibles (book of Jude - all; 2 Tim 1:15; 1 Jn 2:18-19; 2 Peter 2 - all; Hebrews 6:4-9; 3:7-4:11; 10:37-39

    (3) History records that in AD66 Menahem and the Zealots overthrew Herod's Palace at Masada, and came armed with Rome's weapons to capture the Temple complex and thusly pronounced Menahem's Messianic and military rule over Israel. Israel's King Menahem commanded the launch of the Revolt, steering the Nation to its ruin in the years 66-70AD. As a "son of perdition," he quickly thereafter met his fate. The sign had been fulfilled and the Nation thrown into the Great Tribulation period of 66-70AD.
     
  6. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    I think we would both be better off spending our time discussing other matters. For discussing how we believe every verse of Daniel and Revelation will be fulfilled in the future can amount to little more than foolish speculation.

    There is, however, one thing I'd be willing to bet my last cent on. That is that no man is ever again going to be sitting down in any rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem. That site is now occupied by the Moslem Dome of the Rock. It is one of the Moslem world's most holy sites. Any attempt to rebuild a Jewish temple there would start World War III. There are also a lot of other reasons it could never happen, which I wont bother discussing here. But the bottom line is, it aint gonna happen! End of story.
     
  7. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    GW,

    You wrote: Just one thought. I noticed you still think 2 Thess 2:3-7 is future. I believe it is clearly fulfilled.

    You may be right.

    But I read this passage in a larger way. I believe the "temple" Paul there referred to was the Christian church. For as Paul himself earlier wrote concerning Christians, "We are the temple of God." (1 Cor. 3:16,17; 2 Cor. 6:16)

    I believe this passage is primarily referring to the Antichrist who is yet to come, whose coming was then and is now being held back by the Holy Spirit.

    Of course, it is also possible that Paul's words were intended to have a minor fulfilment in the first century and a greater fulfilment at a much later date.
     
  8. GW

    GW Veteran

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    The 1st century fulfillment is so precise, and the textual evidence that the event was already transpiring at the time Paul wrote is so evident, that one wonders why some insist on a spiritual recurrence perhaps many times again. No mention is made of the Holy Spirit. Paul is talking about real men who were revolting in Israel in his day and those who were restraining the Revolt. The Jerusalem Temple was still at that time the headquarters of the Church and remained so up to AD 66.

    The N.T. Temple (Christ's Temple) was BEING built by Paul and the apostles and prophets from AD 30-66 (Eph 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:4-9) and was to be consecrated by Christ's Parousia (presence) when the Mosaic Temple was destroyed. Mark 13 marks both the destruction of Herod's Temple and Christ's Parousia as being at the same time and to the same generation. That temple wasn't erected yet.

    A future defamation of Christ's Temple and Priesthood would have been an entirely foreign idea to the apostles who taught that the New Covenant Temple and Melchizedek priesthood were pure and eternal with Jesus Christ as the very High Priest. Such a Temple and ministry could not become corrupted unless Jesus Christ the High Priest becomes corrupted. That eternal and spiritual Temple was still "under construction" at the time, and the Jerusalem followers of Jesus were still honoring Jehovah's presence in Herod's Temple (until they were commanded to flee the city at AD 66-67 -- see Luke 21:20-22; Matt 24:15-20). They were not dismissed from Jerusalem and the Temple worship until AD 66, when they followed Christ's commands to them to flee. Eusebius and others also recorded this event.
     
  9. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    GW,

    You make a convincing case. I understand and agree with much of what preterists have to say. You seem to be dead on so far as your explanation of 2 Thes. 2:3-8. However, I still believe Paul's words may find a secondary and greater fulfillment in the future.

    I was wondering, do you consider yourself to be a full preterist or a partial preterist? Do you believe that Christ will return to judge the Christian world in much the same way he returned to judge the Jewish world in AD 66-70.
     
  10. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    GW,

    A follow up thought. You wrote: Such a Temple and ministry could not become corrupted unless Jesus Christ the High Priest becomes corrupted.

    I disagree. Paul said "We (Christians) are the Temple of God." God was not the Temple in Jerusalem. His presense filled the Temple as evidenced by the Shekinah light. In much the same way God now dwells in us. We are His Temple. But He is not us. God is not His Temple.

    We, God's Temple, can become corrupted. Just as God's Temple was corrupted during the days of Antiochus. Between the years 168 and 165 BC Antiochus set up a statue of the Greek God Zeus in Jerusalem's Temple and for three years actually had pigs sacrificed on the Temple's alter. Now tell me that God's Temple cannot become corrupted.
     
  11. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Revelation 21:22
    "But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
     
  12. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    P70,

    On earth a "temple" is a place where people go to worship God who resides in heaven. Most Christians understand the verse you quoted from Revelation to be descibing a time when and a place where we will be directly in God's presense. Thus we will then and there have no need of "temples" to worship God. We understand that time to be yet in the future, for those of us still living anyway, and that place to be heaven.

    Maybe I should have said "God is not now for us His Temple."

    This raises an interesting question. How do preterists, who think all of Revelation stands already fulfilled, harmonize this verse from Revelation with Paul's statements that Christians are now God's Temple? I would guess you say that this verse applies to Those who have already received their heavenly reward.
     
  13. GW

    GW Veteran

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    I was a partial preterist for a a few years but was convinced that the only biblical position was the consistent preterist position. The creeds, of course, were a block against my acceptance of a fully preterist position (scripture leads one to a fully preterist position). Now, great partial preterists like Scott Hahn (Catholic) and Gary DeMar (Reformed) will typically place a first century fulfillment of every N.T. eschatological passage -- from there, they make the compromise with the creeds and render the apostles fulfilled eschatology as a TYPE of the creedal "end of the world." Follow? I understand their compromise, but I think it's unnecessary.


    Well, this is the great thing about full preterism -- fulfilled eschatology is not at all the end of the story because there is no true end of the story (true in all eschatologies, BTW). Jesus is judge over heaven and earth. Futurists typically are postponing Christ's rule and judgments in the present age unto some future time. The beauty of preterism is that it sees AD 70 as the time at which Jesus Christ was enthroned as Judge of all the living and the dead and of heaven and earth..."and of the increase of His government there is no end." Christ's reign is forever. So while Christ's Advent was designated to close out the Mosaic Age and usher in the Kingdom of God, AD70 was the authentication in real history that Jesus Christ was now and forever deciding the fate of nations and individuals in both earth and Heaven. The historic "Day of Yahweh" events became the "Day of Christ." Christ reigns along with the Father, the Holy Spirit, and His Church -- and all human history is decided via His Holy, eternal, Covenant Law. The New Covenant Nation, The Temple, and the Royal Priesthood are all established -- One Heavenly Jerusalem that we have come to (Heb 12:22-24; Gal 4:24-26). Before the world ever began, the Trinity decided that God's people in heaven and earth were to be his people of Faith with his blessing and Presence throughout all generations world without end (Eph 3:21). They live and reign with the blessed Trinity forever and ever as the people of His covenants and the apple of His eye.
     
  14. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    But AChristian, how then do you reconcile that belief with the belief that "Christains themselves" are Gods temple?

    IS Gods temple a "place" on earth, or Is Gods Temple his "people" on earth?

    Both perhaps?? ;)
     
  15. GW

    GW Veteran

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    2 Corinthians 6:16
    For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

    Revelation 21:3
    And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them


    The entire N.T. concept of the eternal temple of God comes from the Gospels where Jesus Christ IS the Temple that would replace Herod's Temple (John 2:18-21; Rev 21:22; Mark 14:57; Rev 3:12). Jesus' mystical, glorified body is the true, eternal temple. Jesus' glorified body is also one with his people who are now one with His own body (Eph 5:30-32; Col 1:24; 1 Cor 12:13,27; Rom 12:4-8; John 17:21-23 ;John 14:20) and are called the Temple wherein God dwells and walks among men (2 Cor 6:16; Rev 21:3; Eph 2:19-22; 1 Pet 2:4-9; Heb 3:6,14). That is the eternal Temple of the book of Revelation (Rev 21:22; 3:12).
     
  16. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

    AChristian, your previous post indicated you believe the things described in the above verse are indeed "present day realities"

    If that is correct, then welcome to preterism! for just like the verse about God being the temple I posted before, this verse describes what happens "after" the new heavens and earth arrive in their fullness.

    If you do not believe Rev.21:3 describes a present day reality, would you be willing to explain to me why not?
     
  17. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    P70,

    You asked: If you do not believe Rev.21:3 describes a present day reality, would you be willing to explain to me why not?

    Rev.21:4
     
  18. aChristian

    aChristian Member

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    GW,

    You wrote: [Partial preterists] make the compromise with the creeds and render the apostles fulfilled eschatology as a TYPE of the creedal "end of the world." Follow? I understand their compromise, but I think it's unnecessary.

    I understand why it may be unnecessary. Revelation and other parts of scripture can be understood in many ways. But do you see any reason why understanding first century events as a TYPE of a larger end of this world yet to come can not be the correct way of understanding scripture?
     
  19. GW

    GW Veteran

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    Yes. Primarily because the largest end of the world the apostles ever imagined was the one they believed they were partaking in at the time they were writing their 1st century letters. They had no concept of and end of the time/space universe or any such notions as are common today. Our 21st ideas about that event have little in common with that of the apostles. Forcing our concepts upon theirs is anachronistic. N.T. Wright observes:

    N.T. goes on to say:

    Next, there is a secondary reason to object to AD 66-70 being a mere TYPE of a future "end of the world." This secondary reason is even more authoritative than the first, being from the scripture itself.

    The typological reading of Israel's history and religious system in order to foreshadow and predict Messiah's single Advent of life, suffering, and glory was a timebound methodology and hermeneutic. The O.T. shadows were designed to find their final fulfillment in Christ and his kingly Advent, which was the single last days generation at the close of Israel's Mosaic dispensation. Jesus came to establish a Kingdom of God in the final days foretold by the Law and prophets, and Christ himself gave the terminus for when all things written would be fulfilled.

    First, Jesus said:

    Luke 24:44-48
    Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, THAT ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN ABOUT ME IN THE LAW OF MOSES AND THE PROPHETS AND THE PSALMS MUST BE FULFILLED." Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things."


    Notice that Jesus tells them that ALL things written about Him must be fulfilled. Does Jesus give a terminus for when ALL THINGS WRITTEN would indeed be fulfilled? Yes. Luke 21:20-22 says:


    Luke 21:20-22
    "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; BECAUSE THESE ARE THE DAYS OF VENGEANCE SO THAT ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN WILL BE FULFILLED.


    There's our terminus: AD 70. Follow? The time when the Romans came to destroy the entire substance of the Old Covenant Economy was the time that all things written about the Messianic Advent would be fulfilled.

    And it is no coincidence that Isaiah 61:1-2 keeps Christ's humble ministry and "days of vengeance" side by side. Jesus stated that Isa 61:1 was fulfilled by his humble ministry among them (Luke 4:17-21). Jesus states explicitly that the glorious days of vengeance of Isaiah 61:2 were to be fulfilled when Jerusalem fell (Luke 21:20-22). And so it was.

    And, in fact, no O.T. prophet ever saw two advents separated by thousands of years. They only saw ONE Messianic generation. The N.T. apostles agree to this as we see the apostle Peter explicitly assign both the suffering and glorious revelation of Jesus Christ to his own generation (1 Peter 1:10-13,20).

    Christ's riches,
    GW
     
  20. GW

    GW Veteran

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    aChristian:

    There is one more very strong objection to reading 1st century advents in typological fashion (other than the two I just listed in my previous post). Namely, it is a disastrous hermeneutic having no bounds and no limits to how it could, logically, destroy the finished work of Jesus Christ if applied consistently. I have written an article to illustrate if you have a moment to visit:

    Answering Futurist Objections: Multiple Fulfillments in Bible Prophecy?
     
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