70 AD Daniel 9:26 the people of the prince who is to come (the antichrist) . Who were the people?

Douggg

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I believe you are waiting on something that not going to happen till the Revelation 20 war. And I also believe all this talk about Gog/Magog happening now is what drives the Jewish people into the covenant with the antichrist.
Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 is something that can't be faked.
 
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BillCody

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Here is a article about what I believe.

Part 1​

When Does the Gog, Magog War Begin?​

By Donna Shakrin

To address when the Gog Magog war takes place lets go straight to the scriptures starting with Rev. 20:1-3, 7-10​

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

According to Rev. 20:1-2, at the end of Daniel's 70th week (a.k.a. the Tribulation), an angel will lay hold of satan and bind him for a thousand years. This thousand years is commonly known as The Millennium. After the thousand years are over, satan will be loosed. He will deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, being the leader of the land of Magog, to gather them to battle the saints and the beloved city. God then devours them and satan is thrown into the lake of fire.

During the Millennium there will be a time of unprecedented peace, a time where swords and weapons of war will be made into plowshares and pruning hooks. There will be no war because Jesus “will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth; with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.” (Is 11:4). It will be a time when Jesus Himself will return to Zion and live in the midst of Jerusalem in His 'Holy Mountains'. From Zion will go the law and the word of the Lord. Jesus will rule the nations with a 'rod of iron'. (Zech 8:3 “Thus says the Lord: I have returned to Zion and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem, and Jerusalem shall be called the faithful city, and the mountain of the Lord of hosts, the holy mountain.” Is 2:2-4, “It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” Rev. 19:15, "15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron", Ps 2:9 “Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron...”) He will judge between nations and decide disputes for people, in other words; hold court.

The people who populate the earth during the Millennium will be natural people who survived Daniel's 70th Week (Tribulation) and all of their natural descendants. This is found in Zech 14:16, “Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King”. Jesus also expected natural people to survive those days. He said in Mt 24:22 that “Except that those days should be shortened then no flesh should be saved, but for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened.” These natural people will have the same nature as natural people today and many will have an unregenerate sin nature. They will be required to go to the Mount of the Lord and learn the law and He will teach people His ways (Micah 4:2).

Also during this thousand years Jerusalem will be “living securely” (Zech 14:11, Jer 23:6). There will be none to make them afraid, that is until after the thousand years are over when satan is released from his prison and goes out to deceive the nations. Scripture doesn't tell us how long it takes to deceive the nations but it will be long enough to convince “four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea”. It is almost inconceivable that during a time when people and nations will have Jesus living, ruling and reigning over them for a thousand years, that they could be deceived once again by satan when he is released. Amazingly enough, according to Rev. 20, this will occur.

It is notable that the only other time in the Bible that the Gog and Magog war is revealed was to Ezekiel. It is recorded in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39. Many see this war in Revelation and in Ezekiel as two separate events but a study of both will reveal that there is only one Gog and Magog war. First, the following is a look at the similarities in both accounts.

John, the Apostle records in the book of Revelation that he saw satan released from prison after one thousand years to go out and deceived Gog, the land of Magog and many other nations and peoples to go to war. In Ezekiel, Gog of the land of Magog was also mentioned as a leader of a coalition of nations. Ezekiel's account gives more details. It actually lists the names of some of the many nations and peoples as Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer, the house of Togarmah and many people with him (Ez 39: 5-6). The number of them were described "as the sand of the sea" in Rev. and "as a cloud to cover the land" in Ezekiel. So, both accounts have Gog as a leader and a massive number of people in a multi nation coalition forming a great army.

The Bible says in Rev. that these people and nations will be "deceived" and Ezekiel vs10 says "things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought". Gog and his cohorts are deceived with evil thoughts to "go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, to take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land." They saw the peace, prosperity, and abundance in Israel during this time and with evil intent they will come against the Israelites to destroy them and take the spoils. Both accounts show that they were deceived into thinking these things.

This multi nation coalition formed a great army that "compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city" (Rev. 20:9) "against the land of Israel" (Ez 38:18). The location of the attack is the same in both books. The army will come from the north and go down to Israel. They will surround the camp of the saints and Jerusalem.

"It shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face. (Ez 38:18) God will be furious and He will send an earthquake, inner fighting, pestilence, floods, and finally "great hailstones, fire and brimstone" (Ez 38:22). In the abbreviated vision shown to John the Apostle, he wrote that "fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them". Both accounts of the destruction of this great army are the same with more details given to Ezekiel.

Revelation shows that the Gog, Magog war is the last war because after this war, "the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone" where he will "be tormented day and night for ever and ever". (Rev. 20:10). Appropriately, the very next scriptures in Rev. 20:11-12 talks about the Great White Throne judgment where the dead, small, and great stand before God with the books open to be judged after the earth and the heaven "fled away". As would be expected, at the end of Ezekiel 39, God explains by what standard He used to judge Israel and why He restored Israel. In Ez 39:21 He said, "and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them." He goes on to explain that it was because of Israel's trespasses and uncleanness that He 'hid' His face from them. The lesson to the nations is that He had judged Israel because of their wickedness which caused all their woes and not because He abandoned them. He concluded by saying from that point on, Israel will know that He is LORD and He will be magnified and sanctified in the eyes of the nations.

Many Bible teachers and students want to make the Gog, Magog war to be a war before the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week (Tribulation) like a World War III. Others say that it is the battle of Armageddon and will happen at the end of Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation). There are also some who believe that there will be a 'type' of Rev.'s Gog, Magog war before the 70th Week (Tribulation) but a fulfillment after the Millennium. The following will address some of these beliefs to show that Gog, Magog war will happen only once and then after the Millennium is over.

First, some people say that there is no way that after spending a thousand years with Jesus ruling here on earth that any one would dare to come against God. The truth is that this will actually happen because this is what is taught in Rev. 20. Both Zech 14:16-19 and Mt 24:22 tell us that there will be natural people who will populate the Millennium. Many of these will be unregenerate people and when satan is loosed after a thousand year, he will successfully deceive as many as the sand of the sea. In addition, not only could it be possible for them to come against God even after being in His presence but it has already happened. Remember Adam walked with God and talked with God and Adam rebelled and sinned. Through his rebellion, sin entered into the world (Rom 5:19).

Those that try to make the Gog, Magog war an event that occurs prior to start of Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation) run into many problems. The scriptures very clearly describe the condition that Israel will be in at time when Gog and the nations come against her. Israel will be a "land of unwalled villages", "at rest", "dwell safely", and again scripture repeats, "all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates". Before Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation) begins the Bible describes a time of wars and rumors of wars (Mt 24). The antichrist will arise be conquering and take peace from the earth (Rev. 6:2-4). He must conquer and to be powerful enough to have great authority to confirm the covenant with many prior to the start of the 70th week. At that time many will be persecuted, hated, deceived, and killed. The antichrist will not be facing an Israel that is "unwalled", "at rest" and "dwelling safely" but after the end of the thousand years Millennium, Gog and his coalition of nations will find an Israel at rest and unwalled.

Some of the results of the defeating of Gog and his coalition of nations will be that the LORD's holy name will be known in the midst of Israel, His name will not be polluted again (Ez 39:7), nations will know that He is the LORD (Ez 38:23), and He will set His glory among the heathens (Ez39:21). If the Gog, Magog war is World War III that occurs at the beginning of Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation), then you would expect to see these results come to pass during the seven year period. This is not the case. Instead of the LORD's holy name to be known in Israel, she will continue to defy God. They will accept the antichrist and confirm the covenant with him. They will throw a party and give gifts when the two witnesses that God sends dies. It will be a time of the rise of the antichrist and rebellion. Certainly Israel and other nations would not be recognizing His sovereignty and His holy name. So, the idea that this Gog, Magog war is the same as World War III doesn't fit at all.

Ezekiel also talks extensively about a time period of at least seven months where the land of Israel will be cleansed of the remains of the dead from the Gog, Magog war. There will be "men of continual employment" cleansing the land (Ez 39:14). Many Bible teachers and student try to say that there will be a time of 'peace' after the antichrist confirms the covenant with many and it will be during this period that Israel can cleanse the land. The problem is that the Bible paints a different picture of this time. Jesus in Matthew 24 describes what it would be like during this time period. He said, "nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." In addition to the deaths due to war, famines, pestilence and earthquakes, many saints will suffer persecution and many will die (Rev. 6:8-9). This does not sound like a time of 'peace' that will allow hired men to go throughout the land and bury the dead.

Those who try to make the Gog, Magog war the same war as Armageddon also run into myriad problems. The first problem is the same mentioned above. The antichrist will not be coming against an "unwalled villages", and people "at rest" and "dwelling safely" because the battle of Armageddon happens at the end of seven years of war, death, destruction, and unbelievable horrors.

The intent of the leaders of the Gog, Magog war and of the antichrist in the battle of Armageddon is very different. We're told in scriptures that the antichrist who leads the nations to the battle known as Armageddon "opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" in 2Thess 2:4 and "it even magnified itself to be equal with the Commander of the host" in Dan 8:11. The antichrist clearly wants to be God and be magnified and worshipped as God. On the other hand, Gog's intentions in Ez 38:12 is given "To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land." Gog wants the spoils and the riches and to prey on the people of the land of Israel. These are vastly different goals and intents by two different leaders at two different wars.

At the end of Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation), the antichrist, a man who receives power from satan (Rev. 13:4), along with the false prophet will be "cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone" (Rev. 19:20). On the other hand, Gog, a man deceived by satan (Rev. 20:8) will be given "a place there of graves in Israel" (Ez 39:11). Gog cannot be the antichrist of Armageddon. Two men, one will be buried in Israel after the thousand years and one thrown alive in the lake of fire before the thousand years. To clarify that the 'beast' antichrist is different from Gog, Rev. 20:10 says "the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are".

So, a thousand years after the beast (antichrist) and the false prophet are be thrown into the lake of fire, satan is released, he deceives the nations and is then cast into the same place where the beast (antichrist) and false prophet already are. It doesn't say the same place as Gog will be cast but where the antichrist and false prophet were long ago cast.

It very important to interpret Bible words, passages, and paragraphs within the context of the overall, whole, intended meaning. For example, there are those who look at the earthquakes that will happen at the end of Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation) and the great earthquake in Ezekiel chapter 38 and equate them as the same event because they both mention earthquakes. Without examining the context, you may arrive at the same conclusion. The problem is that the word 'earthquake' occurs many times in the Bible. No one could reasonably say that when you see the word 'earthquake' in a passage they are all same event because they contain the same word. This would be taking scripture out of context. In the days of King Uzziah there was an earthquake mentioned in Zech 14:5 and Amos 1:1. There were also earthquakes in the days of the Book of Acts and multiple times in the end times, such as after the two witnesses rose from the dead, after the 7th seal and others. So, to say that the Gog, Magog war in Ezekiel is the same as Armageddon because both events have earthquakes and destruction would be an error.

In line with this same thought is the issue about the birds of the air feeding on the flesh of the deceased as is mentioned in both Rev. 19:17-18 at the supper of God and in Ez 39:17-18 in the Gog, Magog account. Having the flesh of the dead eaten by vultures and carrion birds is equivalent to bring more shame and disgrace to the dead one (see Gen 40:19 & 2 Samuel 21:10). Since we know from scripture that the antichrist and his army will be defeated at the end of Daniel's 70th week and we know that a thousand years later Gog and his coalition will be defeated according to Rev. 20 then it is not unreasonable to believe that "the fowls that fly" can be gathered to eat the flesh of the dead for each separate event.
 
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BillCody

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Part 2

Important to note, there is Messianic language used of Israel in the end of Ezekiel 39. It is only after this Gog, Magog war that God says “the house of Israel shall know the I am the LORD their God from that day and forward” and “Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God”. This is the point where whole house Israel gets 'saved'. This is the fulfillment of the Messianic Kingdom. Somewhere in the middle of Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation) a remnant of Israel will understand and believe the warning that Jesus gave in Mt 24 to flee from the abomination of desolation who will sit on the temple mount and declare himself to be God. This remnant will recognize the truth of Jesus, but only a remnant. It is not until the Gog, Magog war when the "whole house of Israel" will know Jesus as LORD.

Some see Daniel 9:24 as a deterrent to applying the Gog, Magog war to a time after the Millennium. Actually, the opposite is the truth. Daniel 9:24 says, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." First, notice that it says seventy weeks are determined. This means that Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation) must be completed before the next six things mentioned in this scripture happens so it cannot happen during the 70th week. Secondly, these six things clearly do not even happen during the thousand-year Millennium for the following reasons. To "finish the transgression" means that sin would no longer be rampart or active anymore, that sin would be 'shut up' or 'restrained'. Also, the words in the scripture "to make an end of sin" are the words used to mean 'seal sin' and 'end it'. Clearly the Bible teaches that after the thousand-year period there will be a rebellion (sin) of nations and multitudes of people revolting against Jesus in a Gog, Magog war. This means there will be sin during the Millennium and that transgression will not be finished and sin will not be ended at this time nor during or immediately after Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation) as some teach. Reconciliation for iniquity will not be complete until at least the last Great White Throne judgment. This judgment is sometime after the Millennium and after the Gog, Magog war as is written in the book of Revelation. The Bible is clear that during this judgment, the Book of Life is opened which means that there will be reconciliation for some after the Millennium. The next three events mentioned in Dan 9:24, "everlasting righteousness", seal up vision and prophecy", and to "anoint the Most Holy" can only occur after the first three are complete and as is shown, this can only occur sometime after the Gog, Magog war which is after the Millennium.

Once we can wrap our brain around the fact the world does not come to an end at "the end of the age" but continues on for at least another thousand years and into eternity then we can grasp the fact that some scriptures apply to a later date and not to the soon coming end of this age. Scripture teaches us that natural people will survive Daniel's 70th week (Tribulation) and will continue to live into the Millennium. They will be people who work, build, have children, who are under laws, and governed by nations which will be under the reign of Jesus Himself. But not all will be happy about His ruling with a 'rod of iron' and will be more than willing to join in a revolt against Him. Many will again deny His lordship but at the end of the Gog, Magog war Jesus will "magnify" and "sanctify" Himself and "Everyone on earth will know that I [the Lord] am the holy Lord God of Israel" and then He will "finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." Praise God.
 
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Douggg

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Gog/Magog is followed by 7 years of burning the weapons of Gog's army.

Which there are not 7 years following the repeat of the same Gog/Magog nations participation in Satan's final rebellion in Revelation 20.

Gog/Magog, then the 7 years, then Armageddon event in v17-20, then Jesus Himself speaking in v21-29 having returned to this earth.
 
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BillCody

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So your saying there going to be 7 years of burning metal weapons. Because that's what modern warfare is. But I'm saying when Satan is released after 1000 years and they use makeshift weapons of wood. Because there are no weapons in the millennium reign of Christ .And far as timeline to white throne judgement. I don't think it's written down. We only know it's sometime after the millennium. So which one makes more sense, metal or wood for burning?
 
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Douggg

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So your saying there going to be 7 years of burning metal weapons. Because that what modern warfare is. But I'm saying when Satan is released after 1000 years and they use makeshift weapons of wood. Because there are no weapons in the millennium reign of Christ .And far as timeline to white throne judgement. I don't think it's written down. We only know it's sometime after the millennium. So which one makes more sense, metal or wood for burning?
Not metal weapons, but the diesel fuel in vehicles.

There is not 7 years following the destruction of them in Revelation 20. Right after the destruction of them, there will be the final resurrection, which will include all of the unsaved. Then at the same time, the destruction of this present heaven and earth. Which then will be the Great White Throne Judgment.

Do these verses make sense to be after Jesus has been here on earth ruling for 1000 years? No, these verses of Jesus's return only make sense right before the 1000 years begin.

Ezekiel 39:
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
 
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Douggg

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Diesel fuel for 7 years? Really, your going with that.
Yes, because the burning of the diesel for heat and cooking will eliminate the need for cutting down any of the trees from the forests, nor wood out of the field - Ezekiel 39:10 kjv.
 
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David Kent

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It's certainly true that Cestius Gallus' approach in 66 AD was the initial warning to the Jewish believers. And I'm familiar with the argument that it was too late for believers to escape if they remained until 70 AD. But I don't believe that's true. Here's why.

Jesus indicated that some would have plenty of time to prepare to leave, though it certainly wasn't something to procrastinate over. He indicated that planning around a Sabbath was possible.

Matt 24.20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

On the other hand, Jesus made it plain that some believers would hold out to the very last moment. They would, in a real sense, have to run for their lives.

Matt 24.17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak.

Obviously, if a Jew was trapped inside the walls of the city of Jerusalem in 70 AD, it would be too late. But if one was out in the field, or in a country home, the news that the Roman army was approaching would not give any time for preparation. One would have to flee without survival supplies. But he and his family could escape at the last moment.

So in my view, armies plural would refer to both 66 and 70 AD, a period of time in which believers could prepare to leave up until the last moment when there was no more time to prepare. If one prayed, some would find time to work around Sabbath prohibitions in that culture, and actually manage to take pregnant women and new born babies.

Yes, I can see how you see that it was not the Messiah who committed the desolations, but only unbelieving Jews. I just don't happen to hold to that position, though it seems reasonable.

I just find it more reasonable, personally, to see the "people of the ruler" to connect the Army to the leaders, or generals, who were supervising this "desolation." In other words, it wasn't just the "people" but also the "ruler" who participated in this work of "desolation."

The "people" of the ruler are emphasized to show, I think, that it was an Army that would do the actual work of desolation. The "ruler" is mentioned because he is managing this invasion in a military siege.

Dan 9.27 indicates, specifically, that the "abomination of desolation" brings this desolation to the temple.

Dan 9.27 And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on it.

The "setting up" of an AoD corresponds, I think, with the "standing" of the Roman army around Jerusalem.

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.

Matt 24.15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.


An "abomination" refers, I think, to the pagan armies and their leaders, who worshiped "vultures," or "eagles," on their standards. And so, Jesus said Jerusalem would be surrounded by "vultures." Vultures and eagles are virtually synonymous, though in our understanding vultures are largely carrion scavengers, whereas eagles prefer killing their prey. However, both are scavengers.

Matt 24.28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

Though Jesus was asked, in this context, about his Coming with his Kingdom, he insisted on maintaining the main context, which was the time of Jerusalem's desolation. In a very real sense, he was telling Jewish believers to look for his Coming not just in the eschatological sense but in the sense of imminent judgment against the unbelieving Jews.

He sort of combined expectation of the eschatological Coming with expectation of judgments to take place in history, as well. There was a need to prepare for the Kingdom immediately by living in righteousness today, rather just by waiting until the end of the age and Jesus' physical return. Judgments are taking place in history today, rather than just at the end of the age.

Thanks for an interesting discussion!
Josephus said Titus gave his soldiers a pay day and gave them 3 days off to enjoy their wages, in order for Jews to leave the city.
 
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RandyPNW

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Josephus said Titus gave his soldiers a pay day and gave them 3 days off to enjoy their wages, in order for Jews to leave the city.
Really? That's interesting. I didn't know that. Instead of a last hour escape, it's more like a last *second* escape. But I can see how God is caring about every single life.
 
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David Kent

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David, the vision of the little horn, the 2300 days, the transgression of desolation by him - is time of the end. Read Daniel 8:13 kjv - and then Daniel 8:17.

Antiochus IV was not time of the end. And Antiochus IV committed the abomination of desolation type offense of setting a statue of Zeus in the temple.

He did NOT commit the transgression of desolation act which will be sitting in the temple claiming to be God - transgressing the Mt. Sinai covenant. Read Daniel 9:11kjv to get an idea of what transgression means when it comes to how Daniel used the term. It means to violate the Law of Moses, the Mt. Sinai covenant.

The Antichrist in 2Thessalonians2:4 will commit the transgression of desolation act, by sitting in the temple, claiming to be God. Keep in mind the Antichrist will be a Jew and for the first three years of the 7 years, the Jews will believe that he is their messiah. And in fact, acting as such, he will have the Law of Moses read to the nation of Israel from the temple mount - to start the seven years - following the requirement Moses made of all future leaders of Israel, back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

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So the little horn waxing (flowing south, metaphorically as wax flowing down a candle) exceedingly great south and east, toward Israel - will be time of the end.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Out of one of Alexander's Greek empire four breakup kingdoms - i.e. the location of one of them, since the Greek empire ended as the Roman empire was taking over, the little horn person will head into the middle east with a strong army.

Of the four breakup kingdoms, the Macedonian kingdom fits the geographic location, and today is the nation of Greece - eastern most frontier of the EU.

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In the end times (our time) the little horn will stand-up as it says in Daniel 8:23 kjv, an idiom for prepares to go to war. He will prepare his EU army to go to war against Gog/Magog who will be on the verge of attacking Israel (remember the little horn is a Jew and initially a friend of Israel). He will stage his EU army in Greece, hoping to dissuade the attack.

Whether the EU actually engages the Gog/Magog force is not for certain, may yes, maybe no. What is certain is that God supernaturally destroys Gog's army.

In the aftermath, the little horn will move his EU army into the middle east on premise of being peace keeper. With underlying motivation to grab up all the oil for the EU cast of characters of the ten other EU leaders supporting him.

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To the Jews , many of who are expecting their messiah right after Gog/Magog, the little horn (a Jew himself) will appear to fit their expectations - one of which the Jews believe that their messiah will fight the battles of God in defending Israel.

The 7 years in Ezekiel 39 following Gog/Magog are the same 7 years of Daniel 9:27 - which begin when the Antichrist confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle required by Moses.

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The reformers who came up with the historist view did not consider any of those things - because they were in heat of extreme persecution by the Vatican and the Kings back then who in league with the Vatican. So we can't be too hard on them in their thinking that the Pope/papacy is the Antichrist. But as far as bible prophecy regarding the Antichrist and the end times goes - they were off.

Ezekiel 39 provides the "infallible" framework for the end times, because it is Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 having returned to this earth. And the Armageddon event in Ezekiel 39:17-20 (corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18). "infallible".

Gog/Magog - then the 7 years - ending with Armageddon, and Jesus's return to this earth.

The 2300 days associated with the little horn, the 1260 days of the two witnesses, the 42 months of the beast-king, the 1290 days and 1335 days based on the setting up of the abomination of desolation, the time/times/half time remaining for Satan to be a terror - all fit within that 7 years.

Use this graphic I made as a reference to the 5 stages the little horn person goes through on the way to his destruction.




View attachment 334259
As some one said 2300 evening morning, kjv margin. If he is correct and that is 1150 days, and I hadn't thought of it like that, but 1150 days is just over 3 gregorian years. I am not sure what that would be in the Hebrew calendar with their leap months, but the sanctuary was cleansed and sacrifices restored after exactly 3 years according to Josephus. Nowhere can I see that it says the time of the end, it says in verse 23, " at the latter end of their kingdom. The Greek kingdom.
I believe in the year day understanding of prophetical times as in the 70 weeks, but the 2300 days, we are told are true. Verse 26

Show me where Antichrist will be a Jew please. Scripture says he will come out of the 10 horns, the to Germanic tribes that succeeded the Roman Emperors. The little horn was the eighth head. The Empire was removed by Constantine, 2 Thess 2: 7 and from that time Rome had no emperor. The beast that was is not, at that time. The ten Gothic horns recognised the papacy as head, due to a forged papal document, entitled The Donation of Constantine, and others entitled The Decretals of Peter.

From that time the papacy became the eighth head. The beast that was, and is not now is.

The papacy overthrew 3 of the other horns Daniel 7:8 and Daniel 7:20

The reformers did not come up with the historicist view, that is a lie. It has continued since the early church. They taught that the temple in Revelation is the Church, I have posted bible references for that from Paul and Peter and you must have read them. The say in 2 Thess 2, the man of sin sitting in the Temple was Antichrist sitting at the head of the church, that the let and hindrance was the emperor and Empire, and when it split into 10 the Antichrist would come. Then would come the end of all things. Apart from the last sentence it all happened just as they expected.

A book you may like to read is The History of Apocalyptic Interpretation A reprint of 1862 edition which takes you from the early church writers, till after the French revolution. It is not a interpretation but the authour gives his view if he agrees or doesn't. It is a print to order book on Amazon and cost me about £22.00 a few months ago.

The Reformers came to the same conclusion as those pre reformation believers on prophecy, people as the Waldensians, the Hussites and Lollards, all taught the papacy was Antichrist.

Daniel 8:13 "That certain saint that spake" kjv margin, Heb Palmoni, that is the wonderful number, or numberer of secrets, so I should be very wary of taking these numbers literally unless we are told differently.
 
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David Kent

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Well i used week here to be a 7 year period. The end of the 69th week means the end of that 7 year period, not a weekend etc as such.
The video above argues that Jesus arriving at Jerusalem on the Donkey marked the end of the 69th week to the day basically. He was there for the passover feast and was crucified a few days after arriving.
The end of the 69th week was when John the Baptist said,
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
 
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Douggg

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Show me where Antichrist will be a Jew please. Scripture says he will come out of the 10 horns, the to Germanic tribes that succeeded the Roman Emperors.
Revelation 17:10 indicates the person will be descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

He will also be a Jew because the term Christ is associated with being the King of Israel messiah.
Mark 15:32 Christ the King of Israel
Matthew 27:32 the King of Israel
John 12:13 the King of Israel
 
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David Kent

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Revelation 17:10 indicates the person will be descended from the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

He will also be a Jew because the term Christ is associated with being the King of Israel messiah.
Mark 15:32 Christ the King of Israel
Matthew 27:32 the King of Israel
John 12:13 the King of Israel
Jesus is king of the church and his people are now true Christian believers. Antichrist is what the Pope calls himself in his title Vicar of Christ. Substitute Christ, or counter Christ. If you can get hold of an old Funk and Wagnalls dictionary, and look up the word anti, you will find it has many different meanings. I no longer have my copies, 2 large volumes, I had to get rid of them when I downsized to this small pad. The meanings given were exactly the same as a Greek English lexicon that my dad had.

As Calvin said, commenting on 2 Thessalonians 2, Anyone who sees the claims of Christ and then sees the claims of the popes would recognise the Antichrist even though he were a 10 year old boy.

And how anyone can read Antichrist into Daniel 9 is beyond me. He just isn't mentioned, you really have to stretch credibility to get there.

In prophecy you should always look to see if it has been fulfilled before putting it into the future.

Someone was asking about the 200,000,000 horsemen in Revelation 9. Well as chapter 10 is the Reformation they must have been before that. I looked up Elliott volume 1, and he says it was the saracens, the images describe their appearance. I couldn't find where that was posted after that.
 
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David Kent

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Really? That's interesting. I didn't know that. Instead of a last hour escape, it's more like a last *second* escape. But I can see how God is caring about every single life.
when Cestius withdrew his troops from surrounding Jerusalem, Josephus said: "Many prominent people deserted the city as rats desert a ship that sinks." They saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem and the miraculous way the they were withdrawn, the Christian's fled.
 
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RandyPNW

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when Cestius withdrew his troops from surrounding Jerusalem, Josephus said: "Many prominent people deserted the city as rats desert a ship that sinks." They saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem and the miraculous way the they were withdrawn, the Christian's fled.
I suppose I could look it up, but I'm not going to take the time right now. You mentioned that Josephus was talking about Titus, and that appears to be the 2nd approach to Jerusalem? Cestius Gallus engaged in the 1st approach to Jerusalem, and I'm aware that he withdrew and was harassed and picked apart in that withdrawal.

So when you said that Josephus described a 3 day period of leave are you talking about the 1st approach or the 2nd approach? Cestius would've been the 1st, and Titus would've been the 2nd.
 
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parousia70

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The People of Messiah the Prince, the Jews, Destroyed their own city and sanctuary. Try the experiment as many times as you want, 3+ years of Bloody, excruciating Jewish Civil war while the Romans had the city surrounded will only get that result, every time. By the time the Romans breached the walls, it was merely a mop up operation.
 
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I suppose I could look it up, but I'm not going to take the time right now. You mentioned that Josephus was talking about Titus, and that appears to be the 2nd approach to Jerusalem? Cestius Gallus engaged in the 1st approach to Jerusalem, and I'm aware that he withdrew and was harassed and picked apart in that withdrawal.

So when you said that Josephus described a 3 day period of leave are you talking about the 1st approach or the 2nd approach? Cestius would've been the 1st, and Titus would've been the 2nd.
3 day period under Titus, but I don't recall that Josephus said that any Jews left the city at that time.

Josephus said that Cestius withdrew "without a reason in the world" when the priests were on the point of opening the gates to let him in. The translator, Wm Whiston said that was the strangest military blunder ever. But it was not God's will that they should surrender, as Jesus said the temple and city would be desolated.
 
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