500 years of protesting what?

[BobRyan]

Yes, and aren't Seventh Day Adventist church members required to accept that at least some of Ellen G White's writings are inspired?

No - members can join without accepting that Ellen White had the gift of prophecy... since none of our doctrines actually come from Ellen White -- it is not that difficult for someone to join and it happens all the time.

Isn't one of the Seventh Day Church's fundamental beliefs an affirmation that Ellen G White's writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. Don't Seventh Day Adventist Church members affirm the fundamental beliefs of their church?

That is one of our doctrines - and certainly anyone joining this church needs to know before they join that this is the position of the denomination ... but they personally do not have to agree to it to join just that they know it is our belief. A number of people join under the umbrella "I agree with all the doctrines except I don't think Ellen White was an inspired prophet".

Yet even in that case - what they do need to accept is the Bible teaching on spiritual gifts and prophecy.

 

[GingerBeer]

"I agree with all the doctrines except I don't think Ellen White was an inspired prophet".

What happens if such people (the ones who say what's in the quote) voice their opinion persistently and widely within their local congregation's membership?

 

[Mountainmike]

The early church taught by apostles claims exactly that...that the Eucharist IS the flesh of Jesus, which is why Catholics believe it - that was the faith long before the Catholic Church defined your New Testament.

Sola scriptura is provably false. All your other problems misunderstanding Christianity start right there,


The Catholic Church believes in the process Jesus gave for handing on the faith, and settling doctrine. not your man made tradition " sola scriptura " of 1500 plus

. Do you never ask why Protestants disagree with each other on every substantive issue of doctrine?

1. The Catholic church claims that its priests confect "the body, blood, soul and divinity" of Christ in the mass.

The Bible claims no such thing.

And as you point out - Acts 17:11 example of sola scriptura testing of all doctrine - is rejected by the RCC.

How in the world will they resolve that "Gap" with Protestants in Germany this month??

 

[BobRyan]

The early church taught by apostles claims exactly that...that the Eucharist IS the flesh of Jesus, which is why Catholics believe it - that was the faith long before the Catholic Church defined your New Testament.

Sola scriptura is provably false. All your other problems misunderstanding Christianity start right there,


The Catholic Church believes in the process Jesus gave for handing on the faith, and settling doctrine. not your man made tradition " sola scriptura " of 1500 plus

. Do you never ask why Protestants disagree with each other on every substantive issue of doctrine?

Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

BTW -- no church has spawned more division than the RCC -- historically speaking.

And that includes 3 popes each with their own papal army - Catholics killing Catholics... and of course Pope Clement XIV abolishing forever -- the Jesuit order.

=======================

But enough of that ... certainly the group in Germany is not trying to solve the problem of Catholic history.

Rather they are trying to "bridge the gap" between Catholicism and Protestants

 

[BobRyan]

What happens if such people (the ones who say what's in the quote) voice their opinion persistently and widely within their local congregation's membership?

If they want to raise the cry "adventist doctrine is wrong" as their contribution when joining the church - they will have plenty of opportunities to get their point across and state their case -- sola-scriptura.

If the denomination agrees with them - then doctrines will change. If not .. then they will be happier with some other group that shares their views.

 

[GingerBeer]

Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

were we simply "not supposed to notice"?

Ask yourself who the "these" in the passage are. Are they Christians?

 

[GingerBeer]

If they want to raise the cry "adventist doctrine is wrong" as their contribution when joining the church - they will have plenty of opportunities to get their point across and state their case. If the denomination agrees with them - then doctrines will change. If not .. then they will be happier with some group that shares their views.

Happier and encouraged to go or expelled as encouragement to go elsewhere?

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

BTW -- no church has spawned more division than the RCC -- historically speaking.

And that includes 3 popes each with their own papal army - Catholics killing Catholics... and of course Pope Clement XIV abolishing forever -- the Jesuit order.

=======================

But enough of that ... certainly the group in Germany is not trying to solve the problem of Catholic history.

Rather they are trying to "bridge the gap" between Catholicism and Protestants

Ask yourself who the "these" in the passage are. Are they Christians?

Acts 17
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

The "these" in that case are nonChristians judging a Christian Apostle - "sola scriptura" - but the WRITER of the text IS Christian and HE says they are blessed and approved for taking this correct course of action.

If this is so easy and obvious that even the NON-Christians "get it" -- how much simpler for Christians to take up the Bible and "get it"?

 

[BobRyan]

Happier and encouraged to go or expelled as encouragement to go elsewhere?

I have never heard of any member being dis-fellowshipped because they did not believe in the inspired writings of Ellen White... nor is there such a rule on the books for SDAs. But I have found a few people here and there that were not good students of the Bible and found that they were happier going to some other group that had less understanding of scripture.

When that happens everyone wins. They are happier where they go and those they leave are generally more peaceful.

 

[GingerBeer]

The "these" in that case are nonChristians judging a Christian Apostle

Yes, Jews specifically, judging the gospel. Did may of the convert to Christ? Did they leave a foot print in Church history? No?

Acts 17 is not advocating sola scriptura and the Jews in Berea do not appear to have converted in large numbers nor did they leave much of a foot print in church history.

But back to "sola scriptura". Seventh Day Adventist fundamental beliefs include Ellen G White's writings as inspired by God. That is "the bible and Mrs White"

 

[klutedavid]

Doesn't the Catholic Church have a single official Catechism called The Catechism of the Catholic Church? A single catechism suggests uniform doctrine.

Hello GB.

The Catechism is an attempt by the Catholic Church to maintain uniform doctrine.

Alas, the Catholic Church is composed of an array of denominations with doctrinal differences.

Some denominations favor Mary, some promote tradition strongly, some follow saints, others are dedicated to the Pope, and so on.

Every year some denominations are excommunicated and some are accepted into the fold.

The Catholic Church is never exactly the same church from one century to the next.

 

[GingerBeer]

The Catechism is an attempt by the Catholic Church to maintain uniform doctrine.

Can't the same be said of any official statement of beliefs or official theology?

 

[GingerBeer]

I have never heard of any member being [dis]fellowshipped because they did not believe in the inspired writings of Ellen White... nor is there such a rule on the books for SDAs. But I have found a few people here and there that were not good students of the Bible and found that they were happier going to some other group that had less understanding of scripture.

When that happens everyone wins. They are happier where they go and those they leave are generally more peaceful.

Okay, fair enough.

 

[klutedavid]

Can't the same be said of any official statement of beliefs or official theology?

Hello GB.

Agree with you, all attempts at finding unity in a history of disunity.

 

[GingerBeer]

Agree with you, all attempts at finding unity in a history of disunity.

Like herding cats?

What you wrote about people having their own point of view and being hard to keep on track is true but you used "denominations" as the word to describe what is really only opinions held by individuals. Sure there are people who have opinions that differ from official teaching but that does not make any church into a collection of separate denominations.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
The "these" in that case are nonChristians judging a Christian Apostle

Yes, Jews specifically, judging the gospel. Did may of the convert to Christ? Did they leave a foot print in Church history? No?

Not true.

In Acts 13 it is BOTH Jews AND gentiles in the synagogues and the converts were even greater among the gentiles in those synagogues. "practically the whole town turned out" in one case.

In Acts 17:4-6 it is BOTH Jews AND gentiles in the synagogues and the converts were even greater among the gentiles than the Jews in those synagogues.

And of course Berea is gentile - a city in southwestern Macedonia

10 The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.

Acts 17 is not advocating sola scriptura

That looks like a "by faith alone" statement given that there is nothing in the text to support your claim

, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

and the Jews in Berea do not appear to have converted in large numbers nor did they leave much of a foot print in church history.

Irrelevant to the point.

"12 Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men."

The issue is "sola scriptura" and that doctrine says nothing about "everyone in your town must accept the Gospel for sola-scriptura doctrine to be true" .

And we both know it.

This is irrefutable.

But back to "sola scriptura". Seventh Day Adventist fundamental beliefs include Ellen G White's writings as inspired by God. That is "the bible and Mrs White"

No that is "The Bible and its teaching on what spiritual gifts are - including the gift of prophecy".

Give me the Bible "AND" the Words IN the Bible.

 

[GingerBeer]

that is "The Bible and its teaching on what spiritual gifts are - including the gift of prophecy".

Okay, it's the bible and Ellen G White's inspired writings then - it's said that Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church.

 

[klutedavid]

Like herding cats?

What you wrote about people having their own point of view and being hard to keep on track is true but you used "denominations" as the word to describe what is really only opinions held by individuals. Sure there are people who have opinions that differ from official teaching but that does not make any church into a collection of separate denominations.

Hello GB.

Some traditionalists practise their faith outside the official structures of the Church, though they affirm their loyalty to the Church. The largest priestly society to fit this description is the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), which was established in 1970 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, a founding figure of Catholic traditionalism. Members of this category view many of the post-Conciliar changes as being doctrinally and pastorally unacceptable. The fact that they recognise the official Church hierarchy while rejecting some decisions which they perceive as not consistent with traditional Catholicism, or ineffective in terms of catechesis and how the Catholic faith is passed down, draws accusations of disloyalty and disobedience from many, including from members of the preceding groups—whom this group, in turn, accuse of blind, un-Catholic obedience. Discussions between the SSPX and the Holy See have been in progress for some years, and in January 2009 the Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops remitted the excommunications which the Congregation had declared to have been incurred by the Society's bishops in 1988. (wikipedia)

 

[GingerBeer]

Some traditionalists practise their faith outside the official structures of the Church, though they affirm their loyalty to the Church.

Some people do all sorts of unusual things in home meetings or other small groups but that does not make their home group or meetings into a denomination.

 

[GingerBeer]

the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), which was established in 1970 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, a founding figure of Catholic traditionalism.

Weren't they excommunicated. I believe that some have applied to be received back into the Catholic Church but they are - as far as I know - no longer part of the Catholic Church.