500 years of protesting what?

[GingerBeer]

Catholic church also has many variations in doctrine.

Doesn't the Catholic Church have a single official Catechism called The Catechism of the Catholic Church? A single catechism suggests uniform doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

non-SDAs are not expected to affirm that same point and not condemned for rejecting Ellen White as a prophet.

Exactly where does the bible say that affirming Ellen G White as a prophet is needed for church membership

SDAs don't say that either.

But since you ask about the Bible and prophets - where does the Bible say to accept the messages God sends through prophets?

Answer... everywhere. (The Bible AND the Words IN the Bible)

How is sola scriptura affirmed by Seventh Day Adventists when acceptance of Ellen G White's allegedly inspired writings is required to remain as a church officer and to remain in good standing as a church member?

Nothing is said in the SDA denomination about "member in good standing" being rejected if one does not accept Ellen White as a prophet. But church leaders are expected to know up from down. This is basic.

But there is such a thing as "the Bible AND the Words IN the Bible" when it comes to the Bible doctrine on the gift of prophecy mentioned in 1 Cor 12 and 1 Cor 14:1-2

 

[GingerBeer]

But since you ask about the Bible and prophets - where does the Bible say to accept the messages God sends through prophets?

Answer... everywhere. (The Bible AND the Words IN the Bible)

I looked for "Ellen G White" in the bible but there were not references to her so the bible does not appear to call her a prophet. Was that your point?

 

[GingerBeer]

"the Bible AND the Words IN the Bible"

What is your point in saying "the bible and the words in the bible". Is it not sufficient to say "the bible" since a bible is a collection of words arranged in a specific way so the words in it are part of being a bible.

 

[BobRyan]

If it is not a bible, as you say, then why is it called The Clear Word Bible in advertising.

If Jack is calling it a Bible - he needs to rethink his advertising.

Wikipeia -

The Clear Word, originally published in March 1994 as the Clear Word Bible, is an English-language "devotional paraphrase of the Bible expanded for clarity".[1][2] It is an interpretive text of the Bible written as a personal devotional exercise by Jack Blanco,

other paraphrase "Bibles" that are not called "translations" --
Amplified Bible
, Good News for Modern Man
Living Bible

So Jack is not exactly out on an island by himself calling his paraphrase (not a Bible translation) but a "Bible". Did you want to talk to him about it???

 

[BobRyan]

What is your point in saying "the bible and the words in the bible".

Because simply "having a bible" is not the same thing as reading and accepting the Words IN the Bible - on various doctrines ... such as 1 Cor 12 or 1Cor 14 and the gift of prophecy.

Bible details matter.

Which gets us back to the subject of the reformation

 

[BobRyan]

I looked for "Ellen G White" in the bible but there were not references to her so the bible does not appear to call her a prophet. Was that your point?

Did you look for the name of every person in Corinth too???

1 Cor 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
..
26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

Give me the Bible AND "the words IN the Bible"

 

[GingerBeer]

other paraphrase "Bibles" that are not called "translations"

The Message is called a translation even though it is a loose translation. The difference between a paraphrase and a translation is that a paraphrase is a re-worded edition in the same language as its source as, for example, the living bible is a paraphrase of the American Standard Version (published in 1901). Is that what The Clear Word is? What is it's English language source version - would it be the KJV?

 

[BobRyan]

And if it is not promoted by the Seventh Day Adventist church then why was it published by The Review and Herald Publishing company

The Review and Herald has published a great many nonSDA books. If your argument is that the SDA denomination makes a religion or a doctrine out of every document published by that publishing house - then you need to pay a little more attention to the details ...

 

[GingerBeer]

Because simply "having a bible" is not the same thing as reading and accepting the Words IN the Bible - on various doctrines ... such as 1 Cor 12 or 1Cor 14 and the gift of prophecy.

Bible details matter.

Which gets us back to the subject of the reformation

First Corinthians chapters twelve and fourteen do not mention Ellen G White as a prophet nor do they set out criteria by which a prophet is to be recognised. Were you thinking that there was something in those chapters to persuade people that Ellen G White is a prophet?

 

[GingerBeer]

Did you look for the name of every person in Corinth too?

No, I do not think that First Corinthians contains a membership list.

 

[BobRyan]

The Message is called a translation even though it is a loose translation. The difference between a paraphrase and a translation is that a paraphrase is a re-worded edition in the same language as its source as, for example, the living bible is a paraphrase of the American Standard Version

Still don't know what a paraphrase is or why it is not a translation?

from Paraphrase Bibles | Learn The Bible
"A paraphrase bible is one that allows the greatest level of liberty in translation. In fact, translation is probably too strong a word for many of the paraphrase bibles out there. Among paraphrase bibles, ... the Amplified Bible."

Your focus on Jack's paraphrase for his children... "noted".

 

[GingerBeer]

The Review and Herald has published a great many nonSDA books.

Yes, like the Anglican bible - the KJV. Nevertheless The Review and Herald Publishing company was owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Church. It still is owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Church but it is now a part of Pacific Press which is owned by the Seventh Day Adventist church.

 

[BobRyan]

No, I do not think that First Corinthians contains a membership list.

True -- so a Biblical topic would not be 'the names in Corinth" but rather the study on spiritual Gifts found in the book of 1 Corinthians... because... Bible details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, like the Anglican bible - the KJV. Nevertheless The Review and Herald Publishing company was owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Church. It still is owned by the Seventh Day Adventist Church but it is nor a part of Pacific Press which is owned by the Seventh Day Adventist church.

Yet every non-SDA book it publishes and even SDA books - are not a matter of "Denominational vetting" it is just a publishing business that prints Christian books etc. I have no problem stating that Jack's book is a Christian book.

I don't think the meetings in Germany are about the effort to deny that Jack's book is a Christian book...do you???

 

[GingerBeer]

Bible details matter.

Bible details do matter. Sola scriptura would support that but the sola in sola scriptura does mean that one goes to the bible as the foundation source for doctrine and practise so how is requiring people to affirm at least some of Ellen G White's writings as inspired conforming to sola scriptura? Not even Orthodox Christians or Catholic Christians claim that the canons of ecumenical councils are inspired and neither of those churches teaches sola scriptura.

 

[BobRyan]

Bible details do matter. Sola scriptura would support that

True.

So reading the actual Bible and accepting what it says on any given doctrine "matters".

And that includes the doctrine of spiritual Gifts as we find in 1Cor 12 and 14. That includes 1 Cor 14:1 as it turns out.

So then... "details matter".

but the sola in sola scriptura does mean that one goes to the bible as the foundation source for doctrine and practicse

True.

so then what does the actual Bible say about the doctrine of spiritual Gifts as we find in 1Cor 12 and 14. That includes 1 Cor 14:1 as it turns out.

so how is requiring people to affirm at least some of Ellen G White's writings

What "people are required" to affirm some of what God told Ellen White? People in Adventist leadership?

Is this your focus? --- Adventist leaders that accept the fact that Ellen White is an example of a true prophet as the Bible defines that role within the Bible doctrine of spiritual gifts??

 

[BobRyan]

You clearly don't understand Catholicism, or the early church, or even the meaning of tradition - just a silly caricature of all of them.

If you did understand any if it, you would know Sola scriptura IS a self refuting fallacy -itself a man made tradition originating in the reformation - ,

It is a Bible doctrine - and it is found in Acts 17:11
and in Isaiah 8:19-20 and in Gal 1:6-9...

 

[BobRyan]

You clearly don't understand Catholicism, or the early church, or even the meaning of tradition - just a silly caricature of all of them.

If you did understand any if it, you would know Sola scriptura IS a self refuting fallacy -itself a man made tradition originating in the reformation - the fallacy that led to 10000 schisms, and is the reason Protestants disagree on every substantive aspect of doctrine. Luther despaired of the monster he created " every milkmaid now has their own doctrine" - precisely because of sola scriptura,

Meanwhile the apostles and early church handed on faith by the process of paradosis ( translated as tradition , you clearly don't know what it means ) - and part of that teaching handed by apostles was the Eucharist is the real flesh of Jesus only valid if appointed by bishops in succession - ask ignatius disciple of John the apostle.
,

1. The Catholic church claims that its priests confect "the body, blood, soul and divinity" of Christ in the mass.

The Bible claims no such thing.

And as you point out - Acts 17:11 example of sola scriptura testing of all doctrine - is rejected by the RCC.

How in the world will they resolve that "Gap" with Protestants in Germany this month??

 

[GingerBeer]

What "people are required" to affirm some of what God told Ellen White? People in Adventist leadership?

Yes, and aren't Seventh Day Adventist church members required to accept that at least some of Ellen G White's writings are inspired? Isn't one of the Seventh Day Church's fundamental beliefs an affirmation that Ellen G White's writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. Don't Seventh Day Adventist Church members affirm the fundamental beliefs of their church?