47: USA's fall into Fascism

[Akita Suggagaki]

Trump vowed to "quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses."

And that would be any critique of what is going on in Gaza.

 

[Nithavela]

Now I see a different reason for Trump's speeches.
Psychologists and linguists said it was a sign of early dementia, but perhaps there is a method to what the psychologists called madness?

I don't think Trump has dementia. He has a weird way of talking, but it works for him, so why change it? Besides, almost every president seems to get speculations of dementia.

It would be nice if there were more political leaders who were so young that this wasn't neccessary, though.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

And that would be any critique of what is going on in Gaza.

You can still critique what's going on in Gaza. The Israelis are not dropping enough bombs. Why are the Israelis allowing any food to get through? The Israelis need to step up and kill everyone who supports Hamas. See, critical of Gaza and has the Trump seal of approval.

 

[Nithavela]

You can still critique what's going on in Gaza. The Israelis are not dropping enough bombs. Why are the Israelis allowing any food to get through? The Israelis need to step up and kill everyone who supports Hamas. See, critical of Gaza and has the Trump seal of approval.

Better watch out for when Trump negotiates the next armistice in his latest bid for a nobel peace prize. During that time, any talk of escalation is not politically correct.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Right, just like the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is a Democratic Republic.
(Which just happens to have been run by the same family for 70+ years.)

I'm sure when the electorate line up to vote all of their ballots are marked with the name of the candidates that will keep the voters from being shot at the exit. The misuse of the term 'democratic' and the misuse of the term 'socialist' does not correlate. Socialism comes in many forms. One of them was Nazi. Another was Fascist. Another was Soviet.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It all has to start somewhere.

Because by its very nature, the republican party is to the right of the democratic party, saying it's the "road to fascism" merely because fascism is typically a right leaning ideology is a slippery slope argument.


That'd be like saying that because democratic leaders are more to the left than republican leaders, thereby "technically" closer to Karl Marx, that any democratic policies and administration represent the "road to Marxism, it all has to start somewhere"

 

[FireDragon76]

IMHO the evidence is there for rising Fascism from parts of the Left. If you look in a mirror when you are vandalizing a Tesla you will be looking at a Fascist.

Fascism is not an ideology one would traditionally associate with the Left, since it's rooted in a desire to reinstitute traditional hierarchies through violence and oppression in the face of critique or reforms.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

But all of this is pretty much irrelevant, because the concern is just that the US is moving down the road towards fascism, not that it is fascist already. Just because some specific things don't currently align with "standard" fascist policies does not mean that other things do not, or that those things cannot be changed down the road.

But like I mentioned to the other poster, by that logic, couldn't one say that many democratic initiatives that get accomplished represent "the road to communism"?

"The republicans are fascist"
"The democrats are communists"

...are both common political barbs that have been slung back and forth of 20 years now, and neither is accurate.

Both are a form of what I'd call "political reductio ad absurdum".

In essence, taking any point of commonality or overlap (no matter how small), exaggerating it to the most extreme outcome possible, and then criticizing the end result.


And even if it was happening, I suspect many wouldn't believe it anyway due to all of the crying wolf that has happened for the past 2 decades. I'm sure others are old enough to remember the protestors hitting the streets with signs showing George W Bush with a Hitler mustache, or the ones accusing Mitt Romney of being racist.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

In essence, taking any point of commonality or overlap (no matter how small), exaggerating it to the most extreme outcome possible, and then criticizing the end result.

Can you really say that the commonalities are small with a straight face? Ultimately, whatever precise form of non-democratic governmental system you want to call what the US is turning into isn't really that important. It begins to sound like that meme about Champagne - "It's only Fascism if it comes from the Faccismo region of Italy. Otherwise it's just sparkling authoritarianism." The point is that our president is encouraging corruption (pardons for crooks who make donations to him, firing prosecutors who investigate his actions or the actions of his friends, punishing law firms who bring cases against his administration and letting them off when they agree to do free work for him, firing inspectors general), consolidating power in his office while bypassing the checks and balances built into the constitution, targeting marginalized groups for retribution and disproportionate punishment, squashing free speech rights, attacking intellectuals, etc. These are all hallmarks of authoritarian regimes, not healthy, democratic societies. And the thing is, his supporters won't even deny he's doing these things - they just say that it's necessary or "they started it."

And even if it was happening, I suspect many wouldn't believe it anyway due to all of the crying wolf that has happened for the past 2 decades.

Is it really crying wolf if they were laying the groundwork for what Trump is doing now? But, regardless, you don't have to take my word for it - the wolf is right there.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Because by its very nature, the republican party is to the right of the democratic party, saying it's the "road to fascism" merely because fascism is typically a right leaning ideology is a slippery slope argument.


That'd be like saying that because democratic leaders are more to the left than republican leaders, thereby "technically" closer to Karl Marx, that any democratic policies and administration represent the "road to Marxism, it all has to start somewhere"

Oh I don’t mean the right are trending towards fascism just because they are on the same side of the political aisle, just this particular administration and its approach to governance is at the very least, fascism-lite.

 

[Fantine]

I don't think Trump has dementia. He has a weird way of talking, but it works for him, so why change it?

Well, you disagree with psychologists and linguists--
But the theory he is adopting a small vocabulary to prevent critical thinking is new to me.
Not sure if I agree. The low information speech doesn't encourage critical thinking, but even a kindergartener could discern there's not much behind it.

 

[Nithavela]

Well, you disagree with psychologists and linguists--
But the theory he is adopting a small vocabulary to prevent critical thinking is new to me.
Not sure if I agree. The low information speech doesn't encourage critical thinking, but even a kindergartener could discern there's not much behind it.

I don't think he tries to prevent critical thinking. I think that a portion of his followers dislike thinking in general and he modulates his speech accordingly.

 

[stevil]

So apparently, if you are foreign looking, and have a tattoo, you are targeted by ICE in order for ICE to meet some sort of quotas. Regardless if you are not a gang member, have not done any crimes and are in USA legally. You are grabbed, held against your will, not given any due process, and deported off to some foreign prison. This is Fascism!

 

[Fantine]

I don't think he tries to prevent critical thinking. I think that a portion of his followers dislike thinking in general and he modulates his speech accordingly.

The information that Free in Christ posted said that earlier Fascist regimes (e.g. 1930's Germany) deliberately used simple words in order to prevent critical thinking about what was said, so my comment had been a response to that.

His reasoning is in question. Psychologists were saying last year that the linguistic patterns and choices indicated early dementia. The information on Fascism posted by Free in Christ implied possible Fascist-inspired choices. You are saying that he tries to gear his speech to his audience. Any of those could be true. I think yours is least likely because his speech remains the same whether he is talking to other world leaders, leaders in science (e.g. Dr. Fauci, Birx), business leaders, etc.

Outspoken, dismissive of dissenting ideas, insulting towards those who have dissented--including former friends, repetitive, low-detail, overblown allegations, "alternative facts," etc. His words are the same for everyone.

 

[SimplyMe]

Kristallnacht 1938:

Kristallnacht 2025:

This seems like quite a stretch. How many Teslas have been destroyed in the US (unless you are claiming that the attacks on Tesla in other parts of the world are being done by the Democrats)? How many people have done this destruction? How does this, in any manner, compare to 1,400 synagogues and prayer rooms, and 7,000 businesses being destroyed? Have nearly 100 people been murdered in these attacks (or even 1 person)? Additionally, what evidence is there that these rioters were "hired" by anyone, much less the Democratic Party?

It is worth remembering that Kristallnacht was perpetrated by various groups, to include a militia group of the ruling political party, paramilitary forces (the SS) of the government, and youth groups of the ruling party. I'm not aware of any political party militias in the US, much less any evidence to tie the few that have attacked Tesla dealerships to any organized political group. In fact, it seems more Teslas have been destroyed in other countries than the US, with those doing the destruction in other countries having no ties to US political groups.

Now, I'll admit there seems to now be a "Tesla Takedown" group but, again, it seems to have no ties to any political party; instead the evidence is that it is a true grassroots movement with no organization or real leaders. It also appears, from what I am seeing, that since Tesla Takedown really started gaining momentum, the destruction of Tesla dealerships and vehicles has largely stopped; that the protesting is done peacefully.

Republicans were justifiably concerned when Biden wanted to start his office to protect against fake news and Democrats are justified in their concerns about Trump wanting history they present to not be "anti-American," when it appears some of it could be denying some of the evils of slavery that occurred.

At the same time, claiming that all Democrats are somehow part of the violence and vandalism occurring against Tesla vehicles is just wrong. Just as it is wrong to claim it is only leftists that are violent, as there have been plenty of examples of it happening by radicals on the Right. One example, during the 2020 election season, was when the "Trump caravan" in Texas tried to run Biden campaign busses and the cars of Biden supporters off the road. There was the Trump supporter who sent bombs to Democrats and news organizations, fortunately he was somewhat incompetent (the bombs didn't go off). There were plenty of death threats against election workers, and other harassment, of election workers after the 2020 election -- to the point that some had to leave their homes, and hide where they went to, in order to keep their families safe. And last year there were examples of violence from both sides, in the months leading up to the election. Let's quit pretending that the violence is only from one side or that the current violence against Tesla is somehow the Democrats, as a party. At the same time, both sides should be condemning violence, including that being done by "their side" (which both sides have been poor at condemning).

 

[Servus]

This seems like quite a stretch. How many Teslas have been destroyed in the US (unless you are claiming that the attacks on Tesla in other parts of the world are being done by the Democrats)? How many people have done this destruction? How does this, in any manner, compare to 1,400 synagogues and prayer rooms, and 7,000 businesses being destroyed? Have nearly 100 people been murdered in these attacks (or even 1 person)? Additionally, what evidence is there that these rioters were "hired" by anyone, much less the Democratic Party?

It is worth remembering that Kristallnacht was perpetrated by various groups, to include a militia group of the ruling political party, paramilitary forces (the SS) of the government, and youth groups of the ruling party. I'm not aware of any political party militias in the US, much less any evidence to tie the few that have attacked Tesla dealerships to any organized political group. In fact, it seems more Teslas have been destroyed in other countries than the US, with those doing the destruction in other countries having no ties to US political groups.

Now, I'll admit there seems to now be a "Tesla Takedown" group but, again, it seems to have no ties to any political party; instead the evidence is that it is a true grassroots movement with no organization or real leaders. It also appears, from what I am seeing, that since Tesla Takedown really started gaining momentum, the destruction of Tesla dealerships and vehicles has largely stopped; that the protesting is done peacefully.

Republicans were justifiably concerned when Biden wanted to start his office to protect against fake news and Democrats are justified in their concerns about Trump wanting history they present to not be "anti-American," when it appears some of it could be denying some of the evils of slavery that occurred.

At the same time, claiming that all Democrats are somehow part of the violence and vandalism occurring against Tesla vehicles is just wrong. Just as it is wrong to claim it is only leftists that are violent, as there have been plenty of examples of it happening by radicals on the Right. One example, during the 2020 election season, was when the "Trump caravan" in Texas tried to run Biden campaign busses and the cars of Biden supporters off the road. There was the Trump supporter who sent bombs to Democrats and news organizations, fortunately he was somewhat incompetent (the bombs didn't go off). There were plenty of death threats against election workers, and other harassment, of election workers after the 2020 election -- to the point that some had to leave their homes, and hide where they went to, in order to keep their families safe. And last year there were examples of violence from both sides, in the months leading up to the election. Let's quit pretending that the violence is only from one side or that the current violence against Tesla is somehow the Democrats, as a party. At the same time, both sides should be condemning violence, including that being done by "their side" (which both sides have been poor at condemning).

You don't seem to like the shoe being put on the other foot. But turnabout is fair play.

 

[Lukaris]

Left wing alarmism is always prophetic whereas right wing alarmism is well just that ( of course). When I was younger, I remember reading a rubbish sheet: “Mother Jones”. In late 1983, they had an issue titled: Imagine: 4 more years of Reagan. Basically, the issue predicted the apocalypse from a coterie of liberal left writers and instead we saw the end of the Warsaw Pact. Not everything was good but actually more positive than negative far short of the leftist, wishful apocalypse.

The format of the issue:

mother jones imagine 4 more years of reagan - Google Search

An article from the late novelist Kurt Vonnegut in that issue:

Imagine the Worst

In 1984, <i>Mother Jones</i> asked writers and artists to imagine what another four years would be like under Ronald Reagan.

www.motherjones.com

I wish I could access more but I was unable to because I remember a real gem of an article from the “muckraker” Studs Terkel who predicted basically social upheaval and a fascist takeover. Honestly, I believe the left mindset has a subconscious, insane craving for this.

 

[chevyontheriver]

No, fascism rises from the far-right. Look at history.

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe it will comfort you. But watch out for the Fascism you might enable without intending yourself to do so. The harassment of Jews in America by Hamas supporters is real and it is Fascist. I could go on.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I'm certainly not about to defend people torching other people's property, they should be locked up.

Good for you. I hope that also extends to your not defending anti-Semitism, that ugly thing rearing it's head in the USA now.

But, I don't see how torching random Teslas is a grab for power.

Torching random Teslas IS a grab for power. The intent is to make Tesla owners fearful. And to make potential new owners think that becoming a Tesla owner is not safe. The idea is to harm the Tesla company by reducing sales. Stock prices have already fallen. Sales have already dropped. Harming the stock price enough will lower the price to earning ratio and possibly result in a call by creditors for Elon Musk to come up with cash to keep his company solvent. Or, if he can't, to bankrupt Tesla, and along with it maybe Starlink and The Boring Company, and SpaceX, and Twitter/X, and whatever else Musk has going on. It IS economic terrorism to destroy a political opponent, a power play to destroy political opponents by terrorist means. It is very Nazi SA in execution. Please don't pretend it is not a thought out political strategy, a terrorist political strategy.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Now I see a different reason for Trump's speeches.
Psychologists and linguists said it was a sign of early dementia, but perhaps there is a method to what the psychologists called madness?

Are you willing to say that Trump is a Ur-Fascist?