4 Israelis shot dead by terrorists in West Bank

[ChavaK]

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=186614

The victims, from Beit Hagai, shot while driving, include 2 men, 2 women, one reportedly pregnant.

According to eyewitness reports, the terrorists succeeded in hitting the passengers in their initial fire but then approached the car and shot them occupants at close range.

A ZAKA volunteer who arrived on the scene recognized his wife's body. "We saw him crying at the scene and didn't understand what was hapenning at first. It wasn't the first disaster he saw," his colleauge, Isaac Berenstein, told the Post. Then he shouted, "that's my wife!' That's my wife!'" The volunteer was immediately removed from the scene by his colleagues and taken to his home in Bet Hagai.

 

[Mahammad]

It's Hamas, ruining other's peace once again.

 

[Douger]

It's a very dangerous situation for Jewish settlers, they should get out as soon as they can.

 

[bricklayer]

The mideast "peace process" seems as aptly named as our "economic recovery".

 

[EdwinWillers]

Murderers by any other name...

 

[ChavaK]

It's a very dangerous situation for Jewish settlers, they should get out as soon as they can.

My understanding is that by the current agreements, the "settlers" have every right to be there. Jews have always lived in the area, and always will.

 

[Nathan45]

It's a very dangerous situation for Jewish settlers, they should get out as soon as they can.

Real Classy.

 

[Nathan45]

Hamas military wing spokesman Abu Obeida told The Associated Press late Tuesday that Hamas carried out the attack.

Quoting this before anyone gets the idea that this was some isolated random murder rather than what it actually was: A targetted killing of civilians by Hamas, inarguably a terrorist organization.

 

[Douger]

My understanding is that by the current agreements, the "settlers" have every right to be there. Jews have always lived in the area, and always will.

It seems there's a lot of anger over the things Israelis have been doing in the West Bank area. The amount of Arab lands that have been seized for housing and security for settlers is astounding.
I should clarify that when I say the settlers should leave, that would be settlers who live on land forcibly seized from previous Arab owners.
The presence of these people in the West Bank presents an almost insurmountable obstacle to any peace deal.

Real Classy.

I thought so to, now go away.

 

[ChavaK]

It seems there's a lot of anger over the things Israelis have been doing in the West Bank area.

This however does not justify murdering civilians.
And...there is much anger the way the Arabs have been treating their
own people.

I should clarify that when I say the settlers should leave, that would be settlers who live on land forcibly seized from previous Arab owners.

Land ownership is often difficult to determine, because the Arabs actually
seized a lot of Jewish owned land. Especially in Hebron, when in the 1922 massacre they took over Jewish land. Some ownership can be proved beyond doubt, some of it not.

The presence of these people in the West Bank presents an almost insurmountable obstacle to any peace deal.
.

Nothing is insurmountable. Remember during the Camp David accords, when Israel gave the Palestinians 95% of everything they wanted, and Arafat still walked away from the deal? And did not even make a counter offer? They are going to also have to make concessions.
I think the two biggest obstacles are going to be the Palestinians demading to "return" to Israel proper, and wanting to divide Jerusalem.
Those are the two hardest things, and I don't really see negotiating anything else until those issues are settled.

 

[Jonathan David]

What a terrible story. Every time that people start talking peace, extremists try to block it.

 

[ChavaK]

What a terrible story. Every time that people start talking peace, extremists try to block it.

Which is why I personally think extremism must be done away with before
peace talks can proceede. It would be insane-just look at Gaza-to give
up security at the beginning.

 

[Douger]

Which is why I personally think extremism must be done away with before
peace talks can proceede. It would be insane-just look at Gaza-to give
up security at the beginning.

It's hard to quantify doing away with extremism. A more realistic and quantifiable approach along the same lines would be a complete disarmament overseen by an international force.

 

[kiwimac]

Lest anyone think that extremism is solely a Christian or Islamic thing perhaps the following should be noted.

A rabbinical guidebook for killing non-Jews has sparked an uproar in Israel and exposed the power a bunch of genocidal theocrats wield over the government.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Lest anyone think that extremism is solely a Christian or Islamic thing perhaps the following should be noted.

Extremism isn't even restricted to religion.

 

[Douger]

Lest anyone think that extremism is solely a Christian or Islamic thing perhaps the following should be noted.

Oh that's for sure. In the Israeli/Arab conflicts, Israeli extremism has been by far the worst.

 

[nolongerhome]

Oh that's for sure. In the Israeli/Arab conflicts, Israeli extremism has been by far the worst.

I don't think that you can prove that to be true. Both sides in this have been hampered by extremists and violence. I personally see them as being as bad as each other, and I see little point in any attempt to portray one or the other as slightly better/worse.

 

[Douger]

I don't think that you can prove that to be true. Both sides in this have been hampered by extremists and violence. I personally see them as being as bad as each other, and I see little point in any attempt to portray one or the other as slightly better/worse.

When I say this, I am referring to the number of attacks on civilians and abuse of property rights. I'm not saying that one brand of extremism is necessarily worse than the other, just look at the horrible act that this thread is about, but that Israelis are far more prone to such extremism.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Lest anyone think that extremism is solely a Christian or Islamic thing perhaps the following should be noted.

No one thinks such a thing. Good grief.

 

[nolongerhome]

When I say this, I am referring to the number of attacks on civilians and abuse of property rights.

I think when it comes to attacks on civilians both sides are gulty to such an extent that it makes little point tallying up total numbers - both sides have gone beyond what could even remotely be considered acceptable.

As for property rights, Israel is clearly in the position of strength when it comes to this, so it is hardly surprising that they have done more to impose upon the property rights of Palestinians than the Palestinians have imposd on the property rights of Israelis - they have more capacity to do so, and have done so.

When taken in the totality of the whole conflict, though, I see little reason to believe that Israel's actions in relation to property rights make a meaningful difference to the measure of extremism on either side. The imbalance of power means that the way the Israelis engage in extremism is different to the way the Palestinians engage in it - they don't send suicide bombers onto public buses, they set up settlements in occupied territories, for instance. The difference in the way the extremism manifests itself reflects this imbalance of power on both sides, not the imbalance of extremism.