3 Transformations

[ARBITER01]

But the common meaning of "sinner" is someone who sins, not someone who is not dominated by sin or someone who doesn't have a "sinful nature". So I take it we're in agreement then - you, me and Sinon are all equally sinners. And that's all I ever said.

No, you are taking a personal understanding of the word sin, I'm taking a biblical understanding of it,...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth him, and the evil one toucheth him not.

Sinneth not (ouch hamartanei). Lineal present active indicative, “does not keep on sinning,” as he has already shown in 1Jon 3:4-10.

Robertson's Word pictures.


I am not a slave or servant to sin anymore ie, I'm not dominated by it because of the new birth (Divine Nature), hence I am not a sinner anymore, ie, one who is a slave or servant to sin.

If a person is still completely caught up in sins where they can do nothing by lust after things day in and day out, and they think that because of that everyone must be the same as they are,........they are wrong and probably need salvation.

 

[Hmm]

If you understood, then we would both be giving praise to God's "gift of Salvation".

You may start, any time you like, right here on my Thread, that was created to do just that...and did.

Thanks Don.

No, you are taking a personal understanding of the word sin, I'm taking a biblical understanding of it,...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth him, and the evil one toucheth him not.

Sinneth not (ouch hamartanei). Lineal present active indicative, “does not keep on sinning,” as he has already shown in 1Jon 3:4-10.

Robertson's Word pictures.


I am not a slave or servant to sin anymore ie, I'm not dominated by it because of the new birth (Divine Nature), hence I am not a sinner anymore, ie, one who is a slave or servant to sin.

So, the answer to my question "Are you incapable of sin" is...? Parrots would be nodding at me approvingly at this point and taking notes, knowing that they are are in the presence of a master.

 

[ARBITER01]

So, the answer to my question "Are you incapable of sin" is...? Parrots would be nodding at me approvingly at this point and taking notes, knowing that they are are in the presence of a master.

Ok,... I'm incapable of sin now.

Your move.

 

[Hmm]

Ok,... I'm incapable of sin now.

Your move.

I have no move to make other than to walk slowly backwards perhaps. But thanks for answering the question.

You could describe what that feels like if you're so inclined...

 

[ARBITER01]

I have no move to make other than to walk slowly backwards perhaps. But thanks for answering the question.

You could describe what that feels like if you're so inclined...

Look up the word holiness in the greek, my feelings are not involved in it.

 

[Hmm]

Look up the word holiness in the greek, my feelings are not involved in it.

Are we not told to love the Lord our God with all our heart and with all our soul and with all our strength and with all our mind? Feelings are important.

The Greek :Hagios” translated as “Holy” means sacred, pure, and worthy.

That definition doesn't say it means being incapable of sin. Do you have an alternative definition?

 

[ARBITER01]

Are we not told to love the Lord our God with all our heart and with all our soul and with all our strength and with all our mind? Feelings are important.

Not when we are talking about sin.

 

[Hmm]

Not when we are talking about sin.

Ah, okay.

 

[ARBITER01]

The Greek :Hagios” translated as “Holy” means sacred, pure, and worthy.

That definition doesn't say it means being incapable of sin. Do you have an alternative definition?

Let me help you a little bit,...

- Original: ἅγιον
- Transliteration: Hagion
- Phonetic: hag'-ee-on
- Definition:
1. reverend, worthy of veneration
a. of things which on account of some connection with God possess a certain distinction and claim to reverence, as places sacred to God which are not to be profaned
b. of persons whose services God employs, for example, apostles
2. set apart for God, to be as it were, exclusively his
3. services and offerings
a. prepared for God with solemn rite, pure, clean
4. in a moral sense, pure sinless upright holy
- Origin: neuter of G40
- TDNT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: Adjective

- Strong's: Neuter of G40; a sacred thing (that is spot): - holiest (of all) holy place sanctuary.

That is the bibilical Greek understanding of the word holy which does include the aspect of being sinless which I follow and agree with.

What is your idea of sinless?

 

[Hmm]

What is your idea of sinless?

Has never done anything that is not of God. Is perfectly united with God.

Adam and Eve were sinless before the Fall. Apart from that, only Jesus was sinless (though of course the Catholic church believe that Mary is too).

Everyone else is not only capable of sin - "missing the mark" of God's perfection - but sins pretty much all the time. (Sidon is an anagram of "do sin”) This is why we are dependent on God's grace and forgiveness and it shows us the extent of God's love that he sent his Son to die for us while we are sinners. We are commanded to confess our sins and repent of them, not to deny them.

 

[ARBITER01]

Has never done anything that is not of God. Is perfectly united with God.

Adam and Eve were sinless before the Fall. Apart from that, only Jesus was sinless (though of course the Catholic church believe that Mary is too).

Everyone else is not only capable of sin - "missing the mark" of God's perfection - but sins pretty much all the time. (Sidon is an anagram of "do sin”) This is why we are dependent on God's grace and forgiveness and it shows us the extent of God's love that he sent his Son to die for us while we are sinners. We are commanded to confess our sins and repent of them, not to deny them.

Ok,.. but I pursue a more biblical stance on our sanctification, meaning that being sinless is not only a noble pursuit, but it is what we must reach to become more like Jesus,...

1Jn 3:4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.

I know that such a stance seems somewhat unattainable, but through Christ all things are possible.

 

[Hmm]

being sinless is not only a noble pursuit, but it is what we must reach to become more like Jesus,...

I know that such a stance seems somewhat unattainable, but through Christ all things are possible.

That's a bit disengenuous is it not because you have been saying up to now that you are sinless and incapable of sin? Are you saying now that it's a target to aim for which I would agree (provided it does not cause extreme anxiety which it does for some people)?

So which one is it?

 

[ARBITER01]

That's a bit disengenuous is it not because you have been saying up to now that you are sinless and incapable of sin? Are you saying now that it's a target to aim for which I would agree (provided it does not cause extreme anxiety which it does for some people)?

So which one is it?

Of course it is what we reach for, that is a part of sanctification, ie holiness, hence I am incapable of sinning now.

You know, we diverted from the OP too much now.

 

[Andrewn]

But the common meaning of "sinner" is someone who sins, not someone who is not dominated by sin or someone who doesn't have a "sinful nature". So I take it we're in agreement then - you, me and Sinon are all equally sinners. And that's all I ever said.

I think what is happening here is that they misinterpret the following verse:

2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Anyway, I'm glad they're sinless.

 

[ARBITER01]

I think what is happening here is that they misinterpret the following verse:

2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Anyway, I'm glad they're sinless.

Look at the verse I posted,...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him.

Sinneth not (ouch hamartanei). Linear present (linear menōn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of hamartanō, “does not keep on sinning.” For menō (abide) see 1Jo_2:6; Joh_15:4-10.

Ie, not a slave/servant to sin. To abide in Him means you are not sinning anymore,... not dominated by sin.

If someone is dominated by sin, ie a slave to sin, then they are not born again. They do not know Jesus.

 

[ARBITER01]

It's been an interesting chat, but I have other things to do.

Good day fellas

 

[Sidon]

T

So, the answer to my question "Are you incapable of sin" is...?

There is no sin "in Christ".
There is no sin, in the "Kingdom of God".
There is no sin, found in...."One with God, and Christ".
In the 'temple of the Holy Spirit, there is no sin.

= All the born again, exist as "made righteous".

 

[Hmm]

There is no sin "in Christ".
There is no sin, in the "Kingdom of God".
There is no sin, found in...."One with God, and Christ".
In the 'temple of the Holy Spirit, there is no sin.

= All the born again, exist as "made righteous".

There is no sin in Christ, we all agree with that. The question is, is there sin in Sidon?

 

[Sidon]

You could describe what that feels like if you're so inclined...

It feels like this..

""""Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ""""

and it feels like this..

"Christ always gives me the Victory"

 

[Hmm]

It feels like this..

""""Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ""""

and it feels like this..

"Christ always gives me the Victory"

Nice to get the human angle. Religion can be so abstract sometimes.