3 former leaders of ex-gay ministry apologize

[rebelEnigma]

Homosexuality happens in nature, so it IS natural.

Nevertheless, it is still an evolutionary dead-end.

 

[The Bellman]

Nevertheless, it is still an evolutionary dead-end.

No, it's not. Homosexuals can and do reproduce. In addition, I don't think you quite know what you mean by 'evolutionary dead-end'.

 

[The Bellman]

One day at a time, just like alcoholics

A person who has "mostly conquered his own attraction to men" but still "struggles at times with homosexual temptation" is not ex-homosexual. They are homosexual. Sorry if you don't like that.

 

[MachZer0]

Yup, becasue it isn't.

But Homosexuality is

If I recall correctly, we confirmed in another thread that this notion is incorrect.

 

[MachZer0]

A person who has "mostly conquered his own attraction to men" but still "struggles at times with homosexual temptation" is not ex-homosexual. They are homosexual. Sorry if you don't like that.

Then let's just agree to call them recovering homosexuals

 

[MachZer0]

Homosexuality happens in nature, so it IS natural.

Are you sure you want to compae homosexuals to the lower animal life forms?

 

[MrPirate]

One day at a time, just like alcoholics

Alcoholics in recovery don’t lie about being anything other than alcoholics.
No substance abuse counselor or support group for alcoholics lie about alcoholism or condone those seeking treatment lying. Some Ex-gay ministries may be untruthful about “change” some are untruthful about homosexuality and some encourage, even demand, that those in “treatment” lie about changing sexual oriention.

In my opinion, Alan chambers lies when he says he is a heterosexual

And once again I will ask you to explain just why the baring of false witness by “ex-gays” such as Chambers is good.

 

[MrPirate]

Merely by you saying so? Homosexuality is an evolutionary dead-end. You can't reverse supposed "millions of years" of evolution in a couple decades. If homosexuals can't have children and reproduce themselves without any outside means, then it's a dead-end.

And this bizarre position is supported by the fact that every homosexuasl on the planet has homosexual parents…because heterosexual parents do ant and could never produce a homosexual child…um…wait…


Nevermind.

 

[MrPirate]

Then let's just agree to call them recovering homosexuals

Sorry…I cannot agree to blatantly lie like that

 

[MachZer0]

Sorry…I cannot agree to blatantly lie like that

I for one want those who seek help for a problem to get it.

 

[MrPirate]

I for one want those who seek help for a problem to get it.

Does not change the fact I will not blatantly lie




Sexual orientation is not a problem


And even if it were…lying about it is not helping.


I will ask you, yet again. Please explain why the baring of false witness by ex-gay ministries is morally acceptable

 

[Brennin]

You mean celibate? So it's OK for people to be gay and fall in love as long as they don't touch or have sex? Or should they not fall in love in the first place? How exactly can that be avoided?

Basically you just want them to take a large chunk of what makes someone human and suppress it.

That would be my counsel as per my Christian ethos. Of course, everyone has to make his own way in this life.

 

[TinkaBella]

Homosexuals who don't want to be gay need to ask themselves why they don't want to be gay. The most likely answer will be because of what other people have said about it. That tells us that is pressure from society and not something they naturally feel is wrong. If they decide they must change they will either: A) Fail or B) spend the rest of their lives struggling with something they didn't have a problem with in the first place. That just can't be right.

 

[SimplyMe]

I for one want those who seek help for a problem to get it.

How is teaching them to lie about being homosexual "help for a problem". Again, going back to your analogy, is "help for the problem" for an alcoholic to teach them they aren't really alcoholic?

 

[The Bellman]

Then let's just agree to call them recovering homosexuals

They're not 'recovering' from anything. They're people who have been misled by others, for various reasons.

I for one want those who seek help for a problem to get it.

We all do. The thing is, homosexuality isn't a problem; that it is is something some people maintain against all evidence.

 

[The Bellman]

That would be my counsel as per my Christian ethos. Of course, everyone has to make his own way in this life.

In this thread, Brennin has stated (paraphrase) that homosexuals should, to refrain from sinning, be celibate - this is what he has agreed to above.

I actually find this a reasoned approach to the topic from someone who holds that homosexual acts are sinful. There is no condemnation of them, no waffle about how they should change - merely the belief that they should refrain from a given act, regardless of how natural that act might be for them. If all Christian opposition to homosexuality was as Brennin has stated in this thread, I would have no problem with it.

 

[Ohioprof]

Merely by you saying so? Homosexuality is an evolutionary dead-end. You can't reverse supposed "millions of years" of evolution in a couple decades. If homosexuals can't have children and reproduce themselves without any outside means, then it's a dead-end.

Plenty of gay people have children. And I am saying that being gay is natural for me. I can speak about myself with some authority. You cannot speak about me with any authority.

Btw, I am a parent.

 

[Ohioprof]

Nevertheless, it is still an evolutionary dead-end.

So is being infertile. So is choosing not to have children. So what? Are we in danger of having too few people because there are and always have been gay people in the world?

 

[wblastyn]

Nevertheless, it is still an evolutionary dead-end.

Oh, here's another "expert"...

No, it is not a dead end. Individuals who cannot/do not reproduce can invest the energy, that would otherwise have been spent on raising their own children, into helping family members raise their young. Since family members share the same genes, they are actually indirectly propagating their own genes by helping a family member survive.

 

[wblastyn]

I for one want those who seek help for a problem to get it.

Homosexuality is not a problem. Bigotry, hatred and ignorance, however, are.