3 final questions to Creationists

[joshua 1 9]

1. Carnivores: Where do carnivores come from?

Kat Kerr has a theory about this. It goes like this: Satan was thrown out of Heaven and he ended up on the earth around 200 million years ago. He was mad at God so he changed the dinosaurs so that they began to develop teeth so that they could devour one another. This was when God judged the earth and we had the breakup of Pangea. God's plan was to become a part of creation so that the earth could be restored and not destroyed.

 

[joshua 1 9]

why has no one found a dinosaur fossil and human fossil together?

The atmosphere for dinosaur was very warm and very wet. Alligators today have to live in the water in a swamp. They can not survive outside of those conditions. There were very small primates at the time of the dinosaurs but they were not able to develop until the climate and atmosphere changed.

We read that: "The eyes of the LORD are everywhere" and "the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth". There were angels on the earth at the time of the dinosaurs that keep an eye on them.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Evidence. And to me, it seems silly to maintain, against all evidence, the interpretations of the Bible against the findings of science; after all, if we disregard evidence, we have no reason to choose to accept the Bible, having, after all, disregarded evidence.

The Bible says: "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." We have the evidence and we need to study that evidence from the perspective of a child or a fifth grader. As Einstein said: "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." It is rather amazing how much of the math can be done on a fifth grade level. The Amish people only get an eighth grade education but in a lot of ways they function at the level of a fifth grader.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

The Bible says: "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." We have the evidence and we need to study that evidence from the perspective of a child or a fifth grader. As Einstein said: "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." It is rather amazing how much of the math can be done on a fifth grade level. The Amish people only get an eighth grade education but in a lot of ways they function at the level of a fifth grader.

Oh dear. Now you want me to examine my arguments and reject all such thinking above a fifth grade level. Its been a long time since I was in the fifth grade, I'm not sure I can get that right each time.

Does that mean I can't use any math I learned after grade school?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Kat Kerr has a theory about this. It goes like this: Satan was thrown out of Heaven and he ended up on the earth around 200 million years ago. He was mad at God so he changed the dinosaurs so that they began to develop teeth so that they could devour one another. This was when God judged the earth and we had the breakup of Pangea. God's plan was to become a part of creation so that the earth could be restored and not destroyed.

Trilobites of the Cambrian era were already preying on other animals. (some of them, not all of them.)

 

[Shempster]

wait . . . what super ancient structures?

If you follow modern archeological digs, they are discovering that many ancient ruins were built on top of older temple ruins which had to be dated before them A few have been unearthed many meters below the surface.

 

[Abraxos]

I am on the verge of becoming a creationist there just isn't enough evidence in favour of evolution accept for three big problems with creation that I will now ask creationists to explain:

1. Carnivores: Where do carnivores come from? It's clear that God made carnivore specifically for hunting and killing pray and not for consuming plants. But how could carnivores exist in a pre-fall world where there was peace between animals and no killing? How do carnivores fit into the picture?

According to scripture, everything God had created was very good. It was only after the fall of man that God cursed the ground man was deemed to live on; and it was because of this separation from God the world became hostile (Genesis 3:18). From a scientific perspective animals are capable to change their diets when their environment changes or other circumstances change, and our perspective of animals with sharp teeth is never indicative as exclusively a meat-eater. We see a lion and think carnivore, but there are instances of a lion that had lived only on vegetation. Certainly a possibility that carnivorous animals can change diets.

2. The Fossil record: Why do fossils fall into a specific place in the fossil record? Why do we never Trilobites and dinosaurs in the same strata? Yes I know people have found dinosaur bones and other mammals with blood and tissue still in them, but why has no one found a dinosaur fossil and human fossil together?

The reason why there is seemingly a uniformity of "simpler" animals in lower strata to more complex animals like dinosaurs in higher strata is because of their living habitat. Generally we find trilobites in lower strata because they lived on the ocean floor.
Just to note: The "geologic column" that Charles Lyell put forward through uniformitarianism does not exist. Once you understand the process of stratification through hydrological sorting, you'll see that the geological layers we see are in fact and can only be explained by being rapidly deposited by water, and that uniformitarianism is impossible due to gradation. That means one sediment layer would blend into the lower over time --- that isn't what we see. We see clear distinct boundaries between one layer to another, almost like different coloured 4x2's laid down on top of one another.

Your last question, there are numerous examples of human fossils and artifacts found in the same strata where dinosaurs are found. A good source of information on this would be to look under Don Patton. He's a YEC so you can imagine how hated he is, but I found his material to be very helpful to understanding the unmediated truth of human history.

3. The Neanderthal Genome: Creationist have been saying Neanderthals are really humans, but recent evidence show clearly that Neanderthals are there own species (See, for example: here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tevSkylmvXk) What are Neanderthals? How do they fit into the picture of Salvation? Or is there some evidence debunking the claim that Neanderthals are there own species with there own genome?

So those are my three final questions regarding creationism. If someone can answer these questions, I'll be more than happy to become a creationist. Maybe later on can bring up my geological questions regarding Old vs Young Earth creationism.

Interestingly, if we are to go by the evolutionary logic here, comparing these skulls tell us that the Neanderthal (one on the right), were bigger, stronger, and smarter. In fact, it has been proposed that Neanderthals were the ones who taught humans how to use tools; after all, Neanderthals seem to have had them first.
The Neanderthal genome has been sequenced and had been found that there is not much of a difference to us. In fact, according to recent discoveries Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens bred with each other. By the very definition of species Neanderthal and man are the same species.

It certainly paints a different picture of the Neanderthals. A number of paleontologists make the case that the Neanderthals painted in caves, made ceremonial burials for their dead with their heads pointed towards the sunrise, created and used musical instruments, their use of fire, searched the landscape for rare minerals to make cosmetics - that is not the Neanderthal man I grew up with. I see no reason why they were any different other than, larger, stronger, older, and according to skull size, smarter.

Hope that helps answer your questions. God bless.

 

[Code Phox]

This is my insight. Good questions!
1) Carnivores are a curse set on man. It takes work to hunt and compete with other animals who are also hunters.
2) Maybe because the two didn't live in the same environment?
3) If the neanderthals are a different species than human.. That's all the story, many animals have gone extinct during the ages.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

1. Carnivores: Where do carnivores come from? It's clear that God made carnivore specifically for hunting and killing pray and not for consuming plants. But how could carnivores exist in a pre-fall world where there was peace between animals and no killing? How do carnivores fit into the picture?

I will take this one on.
The below links are by a PH. D. in zoology

Evidence For Transformation - Plants, Bacteria, Parasites, Insects, Carnivores

Rapid Transformation - Diet, Lifestyle, Aggression, Anatomy

 

[Original Happy Camper]

He was mad at God so he changed the dinosaurs so that they began to develop teeth so that they could devour one another.

Is this statement meant to indicate that satan can create?

 

[cre8id]

The book of Enoch does not mention DNA.

God didn't cover up a thing, you can trust the direct message of God about His creation left us in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

By saying, "you can trust the direct message of God about His creation left us in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes" it implies that the Biblical message God left us with is lacking in trustworthiness.
God left us a direct message in His Word, the Bible, which was corroborated by the "Word made flesh", Jesus the Christ... who quoted from Genesis as history and fact on numerous occasions.

What unequivocal message did God leave us in the stars? The Big Bang theories, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, are under attack with evidence that can be, and has been, corroborated in the lab for a hundred years... See

...That is certainly a different interpretation from the gravity driven BBT (by the way, don't put most cosmologies based on llama physics in the creation camp because most are not... most plasma universe people are hard core atheists who believe the universe is eternal, not created. Setterfield is one of the exceptions and is not well received by even most popular creationist organizations because of his views on the plasma origins of the universe during Creation week).

Equally, most creationists do not argue about the actual data from the rocks and genomes, they argue against the biased evolutionary interpretation framework and mindset that must interpret the data.

Also, of course Enoch does not mention DNA any more than the Bible talks about dinosaurs... those terms (DNA and dinosaurs) were coined only very recently in our history. The Bible and other ancient sources mention "dragons" a number of times. The extra-biblical book of 1 Enoch (and I believe it is the extra-biblical book of either Jasher or Jubilees) mentions the corruption of "all flesh" on the earth and one of those books, Jubilees I think, says it was deliberately corrupted by fallen angels by sexual means... so they either created hybrid animal abominations via direct sex or DNA manipulation... you pick.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Is this statement meant to indicate that satan can create?

Evolutionists talk about mutations in the DNA. Francis Collins is the leading expert on DNA and he calls DNA the "Language of God". We know that all of creation is in a fallen condition and in need of redemption and restoration.

I would not call tampering with the DNA an act of creation. It looks more like sabotage to me.

 

[Armoured]

Go to 41:40 in this video for instance.. . This guy has about 8 videos on creation .. He's slow but has some great stuff ..

Couldja maybe give the Cliffnotes version?

 

[joshua 1 9]

By saying, "you can trust the direct message of God about His creation left us in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes" it implies that the Biblical message God left us with is lacking in trustworthiness.
God left us a direct message in His Word, the Bible, which was corroborated by the "Word made flesh", Jesus the Christ... who quoted from Genesis as history and fact on numerous occasions.

What unequivocal message did God leave us in the stars? The Big Bang theories, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, are under attack with evidence that can be, and has been, corroborated in the lab for a hundred years... See

...That is certainly a different interpretation from the gravity driven BBT (by the way, don't put most cosmologies based on llama physics in the creation camp because most are not... most plasma universe people are hard core atheists who believe the universe is eternal, not created. Setterfield is one of the exceptions and is not well received by even most popular creationist organizations because of his views on the plasma origins of the universe during Creation week).

Equally, most creationists do not argue about the actual data from the rocks and genomes, they argue against the biased evolutionary interpretation framework and mindset that must interpret the data.

Also, of course Enoch does not mention DNA any more than the Bible talks about dinosaurs... those terms (DNA and dinosaurs) were coined only very recently in our history. The Bible and other ancient sources mention "dragons" a number of times. The extra-biblical book of 1 Enoch (and I believe it is the extra-biblical book of either Jasher or Jubilees) mentions the corruption of "all flesh" on the earth and one of those books, Jubilees I think, says it was deliberately corrupted by fallen angels by sexual means... so they either created hybrid animal abominations via direct sex or DNA manipulation... you pick.

Romans 1:19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Moses had all of God's plan of redemption. Look at Bishop Usshers book for example. There are almost 1,000 pages dealing with the history of the last 6,000 years. Bishop Usshers book only has three pages that talks about Genesis chapter one. The Bible is more a book of redemption and history then a book about science. As Gerold Schroeder tells us there are 32 verses in the first chapter of Genesis. In the Library of leading universities there maybe 200,000 books that give us a lot more detail about those 32 verses that we receive from Moses.

Moses tells us in Genesis 1:2 "the earth was without form, and void". Then Jeremiah 4:23 adds to this: "I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro."

Now we see the mountains are quaking and the hills moved to and fro. If we go to our science book we see this is a pretty good discussion of plate tectonics. This is what happened in verse 1:9 "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so."

Dry land was created by Subduction: a geological process that takes place at convergent boundaries of tectonic plates where one plate moves under another and is forced or sinks due to gravity into the mantle. Regions where this process occurs are known as subduction zones.

On day one God created light, on day two God created the atmosphere, on day three God said: "let the dry land appear".

 

[joshua 1 9]

Couldja maybe give the Cliffnotes version?

Actually this is covered in the book: "Hinds Feet on High Places". This answers the question of why the Bee has his stinger. Why do birds use their claws for defense. Clearly the claw of a bird was designed to hang onto the limb of a tree. This was God's plan and design. Evolutionists want to try to explain how and why the claw of a bird became a weapon used to do injury and harm.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Evolutionists talk about mutations in the DNA. Francis Collins is the leading expert on DNA and he calls DNA the "Language of God". We know that all of creation is in a fallen condition and in need of redemption and restoration.

I would not call tampering with the DNA an act of creation. It looks more like sabotage to me.

Yes DNA was, I believe, tampered with by the antediluvian thus creating "dinosaurs" that is why they were not on Noah's Ark. "and their thoughts were continually evil"

 

[joshua 1 9]

Yes DNA was, I believe, tampered with by the antediluvian thus creating "dinosaurs" that is why they were not on Noah's Ark. "and their thoughts were continually evil"

There is a lesson for us when we read: "If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." (Galatians 5:15) God did not spare the dinosaurs when they began to devour each other. The crocodile was not able to devour each other so they are still around.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

There is a lesson for us when we read: "If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." (Galatians 5:15) God did not spare the dinosaurs when they began to devour each other. The crocodile was not able to devour each other so they are still around.

I would have to disagree with this application of the scripture as it is being used to support a preconceived idea that God created the dinosaur, as the crocodile is mentioned as part of the group. They were destroyed in the flood along with all that were not in the ark. The fossil record indicate that they were suddenly destroyed trying to escape. Do we have evidence of Dinosaurs eating each other or is it hollywood theology?

This is by a PH.D. of zoology
Dinosaurs and the Flood | Dinosaurs in the fossil record

 

[-57]

2. The Fossil record: Why do fossils fall into a specific place in the fossil record? Why do we never Trilobites and dinosaurs in the same strata? Yes I know people have found dinosaur bones and other mammals with blood and tissue still in them, but why has no one found a dinosaur fossil and human fossil together?

....but why has no one found a dinosaur fossil and human fossil together?

They have found human and dinosaur fossils together.

 

[-57]

Tell me about the four footed bugs . . .

Lev 11:20-23 All the winged insects that walk on all fours are detestable to you. Yet these you may eat among all the winged insects which walk on all fours: those which have above their feet jointed legs with which to jump on the earth.
These of them you may eat: the locust in its kinds, and the devastating locust in its kinds, and the cricket in its kinds, and the grasshopper in its kinds. But all other winged insects which are four-footed are detestable to you.
NASU

There are no four footed winged creatures on this planet.

Yes, when we look at a locust we count six appendages. Same with the grasshopper and cricket.

We should understand that this is a dietary description of a way to separate specific types of insects from other insects.
The bible has broken down the six appendages to their individual functions. 4 for walking and 2 for hopping.
Perhaps we could claim that Paul of Eugene OR has four legs. Two for walking and two for hand waving