2Pet 3:9 does not mean that God "wants" everybody saved. Part 1.

[Foghorn]

Thats just it God does want all to be saved but does not force anyone to believe in Him.

Would you point me to the teaching on this in scripture?
I do agree however, God does not force anyone.

The gospel is for all people everywhere. God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Because God loves all sinners His gospel is for all sinners. Love requires the ability to love in return and that freely. A forced love is no love at all, a coerced love is not real love either but a love where to people freely love each other is a genuine love.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Foghorn]

Thats just it God does want all to be saved but does not force anyone to believe in Him. The gospel is for all people everywhere.

The gospel is for believers.
To believe the gospel is what the lost must do.

God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

Prove it?

Because God loves all sinners His gospel is for all sinners

Scripture says God hates some. These must be sinners.

. Love requires the ability to love in return and that freely.

Where is that taught? Where do you come up with this? Old luggage?

A forced love is no love at all, a coerced love is not real love either but a love where to people freely love each other is a genuine love.

hope this helps !!!

It helps me to know you don’t quite understand

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The gospel is for believers.
To believe the gospel is what the lost must do.

Prove it?

Scripture says God hates some. These must be sinners.

Where is that taught? Where do you come up with this? Old luggage?

It helps me to know you don’t quite understand

No actually the gospel is for unbelievers , sinners , the lost .

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

And you’re saying?

And would you care to take the verses separately in their context to see what’s being said?

Those scriptures are self explanatory and are all inclusive , not exclusive . The gospel is for everyone, all people, all the world not just some or a few.

 

[BBAS 64]

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Good Day, Jesus is YHWH

Yes he takes away every single sin in the whole world, does not mean every single persons sins are forgiven.

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Yes written to Jews so everyone is Jews and Gentiles the NC is not like the OC.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Yes brought both Jew and Gentile

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

Our - pronoun to which noun does that point?

Thayer Definition:
1) our, we, us
Part of Speech: pronoun

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Yes out of His love he Gave.... and the ones doing ( verb) believing shall not perish.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Tim 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

it is good to pray for all people:

1Ti 2:3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

Thayer Definition:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Patient with you... any and all of you, follow the pronouns. You have 2 groups (You) and (They) vs4

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

see John 1:29

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

hope this helps !!!

Yes it does thanks!

In Him,

Bill

 

[Foghorn]

Those scriptures are self explanatory and are all inclusive , not exclusive . The gospel is for everyone, all people, all the world not just some or a few.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Foghorn]

No actually the gospel is for unbelievers , sinners , the lost .

So the gospel isn’t for believers then?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Those scriptures are self explanatory and are all inclusive , not exclusive . The gospel is for everyone, all people, all the world not just some or a few.

While this may be theoretically true, it is actually patently untrue in reality. The vast majority of mankind, both dead and alive this very moment, will never even hear the name of Jesus Christ, much less understand the gospel and believe it.

 

[disciple Clint]

I think you have to know who Peter is writing too. It’s obvious I believe, it is to believers.
Is Hod is not willing any should perish and that all will come to repentance, then that’s what it shall be.

2 Peter 3:9,
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

He is speaking about God fulfilling His promise. And according to His promise none of His chosen will perish. The end will not come until the last elect comes to repentance.

can you find any authority for that interpretation?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

can you find any authority for that interpretation?

I do not think so.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

So the gospel isn’t for believers then?

No its for the lost sinner to hear, receive, believe and become born again children of God.

Ephesians 2:1-3- And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

 

[hedrick]

Looking at the rest of 2 Peter, I doubt that the author was a universalist. When speaking about topics such as election and human choice, Biblical authors did not have Reformation discussions as context. They typically accepted both God’s control and real human choice. In Christian theology this raised obvious logical problems. (E.g. Calvin’s exegesis assumes two different wills of God.) But it seems very likely that the author of 2 Peter thought that God wanted all to be saved, but that some would reject his will, and didn’t see this as causing any problems for God’s power.

 

[Foghorn]

Looking at the rest of 2 Peter, I doubt that the author was a universalist. When speaking about topics such as election and human choice, Biblical authors did not have Reformation discussions as context. They typically accepted both God’s control and real human choice. In Christian theology this raised obvious logical problems. (E.g. Calvin’s exegesis assumes two different wills of God.) But it seems very likely that the author of 2 Peter thought that God wanted all to be saved, but that some would reject his will, and didn’t see this as causing any problems for God’s power.

Then what of God’s patience and long suffering? When does God finally say, okay, that’s enough, I have been patient long enough!

If God is patient and not willing that any to perish but all to come to repentance. Does God change eventually? Is God not immutable?!

 

[Foghorn]

No its for the lost sinner to hear, receive, believe and become born again children of God.

Ephesians 2:1-3- And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Ha, okay thanks. So the gospel is not for the sheep? I think maybe you should reconsider.

But would you be kind enough to explain to me what the gospel is? Thanks

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Ha, okay thanks. So the gospel is not for the sheep? I think maybe you should reconsider.

But would you be kind enough to explain to me what the gospel is? Thanks

After you share the verse that has the gospel and sheep together

 

[Foghorn]

After you share the verse that has the gospel and sheep together

As I thought. You cannot.

But something for you to chew on. Hope it’s not to solid.

The lords supper is a good example of the importance of the gospel for believers.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Looking at the rest of 2 Peter, I doubt that the author was a universalist. When speaking about topics such as election and human choice, Biblical authors did not have Reformation discussions as context. They typically accepted both God’s control and real human choice. In Christian theology this raised obvious logical problems. (E.g. Calvin’s exegesis assumes two different wills of God.) But it seems very likely that the author of 2 Peter thought that God wanted all to be saved, but that some would reject his will, and didn’t see this as causing any problems for God’s power.

Quite so. There are tensions within scripture which have caused subsequent theological divisions where none were initially intended or recognized. A classic example is the repentance of God in the Old Testament. The Old Testament clearly presents a God who is entire immutable. Nevertheless, God does repent (change His mind). The classic example is the case of Noah and the Flood.

 

[BBAS 64]

After you share the verse that has the gospel and sheep together

Good Day,

My sheep hear my voice...

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

IN Him,

Bill

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

As I thought. You cannot.

But something for you to chew on. Hope it’s not to solid.

The lords supper is a good example of the importance of the gospel for believers.

The gospel is not the Lords supper. The gospel is for unbelievers . Only lost sinners need to gospel , it’s how one becomes saved, a believer.

 

[Foghorn]

Good Day,

My sheep hear my voice...

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

IN Him,

Bill

Excellent!