2Pet 3:9 does not mean that God "wants" everybody saved. Part 1.

[Bob corrigan]

2Pet 3:9 is not a "proof text" that teaches God "wants" everybody to get saved. Usually, only part of the verse is read, as the norm with false teaching, only reading a part of a verse to teach a lie. Let's show the entire verse;

For God is not slack concerning His promise (The return of Jesus, the Day of the Lord) as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Words don't lie. Men lie. Translators lie. As with so many other verses, some chicanery was going on with translating Greek into English. First, let's look at the English word "willing." When I first started to study Scripture, I was positive that both Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon were both 100% reliable word study tools. I was told this, I had read this, and there was a consensus that "Yes, you can trust these books." But as time went on I found out that this is not the case.

Using my handy English-to-Biblical Greek translator on my phone, I typed in the word "willing." Up popped the Greek word prothymous. I then typed in "not willing." The resulting Greek word is aprothymos. I found this to be very strange because in the Greek text, the word boulomai is used in this verse. The only way "not willing" should have been used in a translation would be if aprothymos were found written in the Greek manuscripts used by the translators.

When we look up the word boulomai in Strong's Dictionary, we are told that the word means: Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will", that is, (reflexively) be willing:-be disposed, minded, intend, list (be, of own) will (-ing).

Thayer's definition:
1. to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded.

And the winner is Thayer's definition. Strong's definition is wrong. Not just wrong, but made-up! Unfortunately, Thayer's didn't stop there. He also added a secondary definition that aligns more with what Strong said.

2. willing as an affection, to desire.

Thayer's also included: Origin: middle voice of a primary verb. The middle voice is when the subject is directly affected by the action expressed from the verb. A verb is an action word, not a word used to describe intent, hope, wish, or desire. The Companion Bible gives an explanation to clarify the meaning.

"Synonymous words for "will" and "wish."
Thelo means to wish or desire. It is therefore, stronger than boulomai because the natural impulse is stronger than the reasoned resolve. The noun thelema must also be noted as denoting desire rather than resolve. In like manner, the noun boulema is to be distinguished from thelema as denoting resolve, counsel, or determination.
In other words, if the concept of "willing," "desire," or "hope" were what Peter intended to express, a Greek word form of thelema would be found in the Greek text instead of boulomai!

The English word "all" is the Greek word pas. Pas is used in two ways in Scripture, 1. To mean each, every, the whole, everyone. 2. Some of all types. Bible Study Tools writes, "The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture, and IT IS VERY RARELY THAT THE "ALL" MEANS "ALL PERSONS." THE WORDS ARE GENERALLY USED TO SIGNIFY THAT CHRIST HAS REDEEMED SOME OF ALL SORTS, SOME JEWS, SOME GENTILES, SOME RICH. SOME POOR...

Let's look at the phrase "should come." If we look at the Greek text, we find the word choreo. I haven't studied this Greek word before, but it doesn't mean "should come." It has a number of different definitions that I am not going to list. First, there are only three Greek words that have been translated into the English word "should," dei, mello , and opheilo. None of these words are a part of 2Pet3:9 in the Greek.
There are 60 Greek words that have been translated into the English word "come." The word choreo is only translated into the word "come" one time. Now, let's look at the other verses that use the word.

Mat 15:17 "...in at the mouth goeth into the belly..."

Mat 19:11 "...said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying..."

Mat 19:12 "...He that is able to receive."

Mk 2:2 "...insomuch that there was no room to receive them..."

John 2:6 "...containing two or three..."

John 8:37 "...because my word hath no place in you..."

John 21:25 "that even the world could not contain the books."

2Cor 7:2 "Receive us..."

From how this word is translated in these other verses, it is plain to see that choreo has nothing to do with "come to repentance. After typing "should come" into the translator tool, the Greek came out prepei na erthei. This is not found in any Greek manuscript for 2Pet 3:9!

Finally, where the English reads "should perish" and "should come" are not in the original text! By incorrectly putting the word "should" into the translation inserts the idea of "possibility," "may," or "what an individual can choose to do." Once again, creating the illusion that Arianism is how one "gets" saved instead of God predestinating those He chose to save.

Who is Peter writing to in this book? He is writing to those who are saved, those who believe, the sheep. He didn't write this as some open letter to be circulated among unbelievers, inviting them to get saved! So, when we see the word "us" in the verse, he talks about the saved! The verse should be translated "not willing that any of US," not simply using the word "any" alone. CONTEXT PLEASE!

What Peter is communicating in this verse is, God is patience, delaying the Day of the Lord, because it is His will/purpose/plan that all of the sheep (in the history of the world until Jesus returns) will not perish but will repent before Jesus returns. Not one sheep will be lost. At some point in time, the very last sheep will be born and there won't be anymore. You have to remember that Peter and the apostles, Paul and all of the believers in the 1st century believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. That is why Peter wrote this in the way he did, as if the return of Jesus was imminent. If you recall, the believers in Thessalonica were afraid because false teachers told them that the Day of the Lord had already happened and they had missed it.

 

[disciple Clint]

2Pet 3:9 is not a "proof text" that teaches God "wants" everybody to get saved. Usually, only part of the verse is read, as the norm with false teaching, only reading a part of a verse to teach a lie. Let's show the entire verse;

For God is not slack concerning His promise (The return of Jesus, the Day of the Lord) as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Words don't lie. Men lie. Translators lie. As with so many other verses, some chicanery was going on with translating Greek into English. First, let's look at the English word "willing." When I first started to study Scripture, I was positive that both Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon were both 100% reliable word study tools. I was told this, I had read this, and there was a consensus that "Yes, you can trust these books." But as time went on I found out that this is not the case.

Using my handy English-to-Biblical Greek translator on my phone, I typed in the word "willing." Up popped the Greek word prothymous. I then typed in "not willing." The resulting Greek word is aprothymos. I found this to be very strange because in the Greek text, the word boulomai is used in this verse. The only way "not willing" should have been used in a translation would be if aprothymos were found written in the Greek manuscripts used by the translators.

When we look up the word boulomai in Strong's Dictionary, we are told that the word means: Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will", that is, (reflexively) be willing:-be disposed, minded, intend, list (be, of own) will (-ing).

Thayer's definition:
1. to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded.

And the winner is Thayer's definition. Strong's definition is wrong. Not just wrong, but made-up! Unfortunately, Thayer's didn't stop there. He also added a secondary definition that aligns more with what Strong said.

2. willing as an affection, to desire.

Thayer's also included: Origin: middle voice of a primary verb. The middle voice is when the subject is directly affected by the action expressed from the verb. A verb is an action word, not a word used to describe intent, hope, wish, or desire. The Companion Bible gives an explanation to clarify the meaning.

"Synonymous words for "will" and "wish."
Thelo means to wish or desire. It is therefore, stronger than boulomai because the natural impulse is stronger than the reasoned resolve. The noun thelema must also be noted as denoting desire rather than resolve. In like manner, the noun boulema is to be distinguished from thelema as denoting resolve, counsel, or determination.
In other words, if the concept of "willing," "desire," or "hope" were what Peter intended to express, a Greek word form of thelema would be found in the Greek text instead of boulomai!

The English word "all" is the Greek word pas. Pas is used in two ways in Scripture, 1. To mean each, every, the whole, everyone. 2. Some of all types. Bible Study Tools writes, "The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture, and IT IS VERY RARELY THAT THE "ALL" MEANS "ALL PERSONS." THE WORDS ARE GENERALLY USED TO SIGNIFY THAT CHRIST HAS REDEEMED SOME OF ALL SORTS, SOME JEWS, SOME GENTILES, SOME RICH. SOME POOR...

Let's look at the phrase "should come." If we look at the Greek text, we find the word choreo. I haven't studied this Greek word before, but it doesn't mean "should come." It has a number of different definitions that I am not going to list. First, there are only three Greek words that have been translated into the English word "should," dei, mello , and opheilo. None of these words are a part of 2Pet3:9 in the Greek.
There are 60 Greek words that have been translated into the English word "come." The word choreo is only translated into the word "come" one time. Now, let's look at the other verses that use the word.

Mat 15:17 "...in at the mouth goeth into the belly..."

Mat 19:11 "...said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying..."

Mat 19:12 "...He that is able to receive."

Mk 2:2 "...insomuch that there was no room to receive them..."

John 2:6 "...containing two or three..."

John 8:37 "...because my word hath no place in you..."

John 21:25 "that even the world could not contain the books."

2Cor 7:2 "Receive us..."

From how this word is translated in these other verses, it is plain to see that choreo has nothing to do with "come to repentance. After typing "should come" into the translator tool, the Greek came out prepei na erthei. This is not found in any Greek manuscript for 2Pet 3:9!

Finally, where the English reads "should perish" and "should come" are not in the original text! By incorrectly putting the word "should" into the translation inserts the idea of "possibility," "may," or "what an individual can choose to do." Once again, creating the illusion that Arianism is how one "gets" saved instead of God predestinating those He chose to save.

Who is Peter writing to in this book? He is writing to those who are saved, those who believe, the sheep. He didn't write this as some open letter to be circulated among unbelievers, inviting them to get saved! So, when we see the word "us" in the verse, he talks about the saved! The verse should be translated "not willing that any of US," not simply using the word "any" alone. CONTEXT PLEASE!

What Peter is communicating in this verse is, God is patience, delaying the Day of the Lord, because it is His will/purpose/plan that all of the sheep (in the history of the world until Jesus returns) will not perish but will repent before Jesus returns. Not one sheep will be lost. At some point in time, the very last sheep will be born and there won't be anymore. You have to remember that Peter and the apostles, Paul and all of the believers in the 1st century believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. That is why Peter wrote this in the way he did, as if the return of Jesus was imminent. If you recall, the believers in Thessalonica were afraid because false teachers told them that the Day of the Lord had already happened and they had missed it.

2 Peter 3:9 Commentaries: The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

"Not willing that any should perish - That is, He does not desire it or wish it. His nature is benevolent, and He sincerely desires the eternal happiness of all, and His patience toward sinners "proves" that He is willing that they should be saved. If He were not willing, it would be easy for Him to cut them off, and exclude them from hope immediately."

 

[Spiritual Jew]

2Pet 3:9 is not a "proof text" that teaches God "wants" everybody to get saved. Usually, only part of the verse is read, as the norm with false teaching, only reading a part of a verse to teach a lie. Let's show the entire verse;

For God is not slack concerning His promise (The return of Jesus, the Day of the Lord) as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Words don't lie. Men lie. Translators lie. As with so many other verses, some chicanery was going on with translating Greek into English. First, let's look at the English word "willing." When I first started to study Scripture, I was positive that both Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon were both 100% reliable word study tools. I was told this, I had read this, and there was a consensus that "Yes, you can trust these books." But as time went on I found out that this is not the case.

Using my handy English-to-Biblical Greek translator on my phone, I typed in the word "willing." Up popped the Greek word prothymous. I then typed in "not willing." The resulting Greek word is aprothymos. I found this to be very strange because in the Greek text, the word boulomai is used in this verse. The only way "not willing" should have been used in a translation would be if aprothymos were found written in the Greek manuscripts used by the translators.

When we look up the word boulomai in Strong's Dictionary, we are told that the word means: Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will", that is, (reflexively) be willing:-be disposed, minded, intend, list (be, of own) will (-ing).

Thayer's definition:
1. to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded.

And the winner is Thayer's definition. Strong's definition is wrong. Not just wrong, but made-up! Unfortunately, Thayer's didn't stop there. He also added a secondary definition that aligns more with what Strong said.

2. willing as an affection, to desire.

Thayer's also included: Origin: middle voice of a primary verb. The middle voice is when the subject is directly affected by the action expressed from the verb. A verb is an action word, not a word used to describe intent, hope, wish, or desire. The Companion Bible gives an explanation to clarify the meaning.

"Synonymous words for "will" and "wish."
Thelo means to wish or desire. It is therefore, stronger than boulomai because the natural impulse is stronger than the reasoned resolve. The noun thelema must also be noted as denoting desire rather than resolve. In like manner, the noun boulema is to be distinguished from thelema as denoting resolve, counsel, or determination.
In other words, if the concept of "willing," "desire," or "hope" were what Peter intended to express, a Greek word form of thelema would be found in the Greek text instead of boulomai!

The English word "all" is the Greek word pas. Pas is used in two ways in Scripture, 1. To mean each, every, the whole, everyone. 2. Some of all types. Bible Study Tools writes, "The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture, and IT IS VERY RARELY THAT THE "ALL" MEANS "ALL PERSONS." THE WORDS ARE GENERALLY USED TO SIGNIFY THAT CHRIST HAS REDEEMED SOME OF ALL SORTS, SOME JEWS, SOME GENTILES, SOME RICH. SOME POOR...

Let's look at the phrase "should come." If we look at the Greek text, we find the word choreo. I haven't studied this Greek word before, but it doesn't mean "should come." It has a number of different definitions that I am not going to list. First, there are only three Greek words that have been translated into the English word "should," dei, mello , and opheilo. None of these words are a part of 2Pet3:9 in the Greek.
There are 60 Greek words that have been translated into the English word "come." The word choreo is only translated into the word "come" one time. Now, let's look at the other verses that use the word.

Mat 15:17 "...in at the mouth goeth into the belly..."

Mat 19:11 "...said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying..."

Mat 19:12 "...He that is able to receive."

Mk 2:2 "...insomuch that there was no room to receive them..."

John 2:6 "...containing two or three..."

John 8:37 "...because my word hath no place in you..."

John 21:25 "that even the world could not contain the books."

2Cor 7:2 "Receive us..."

From how this word is translated in these other verses, it is plain to see that choreo has nothing to do with "come to repentance. After typing "should come" into the translator tool, the Greek came out prepei na erthei. This is not found in any Greek manuscript for 2Pet 3:9!

Finally, where the English reads "should perish" and "should come" are not in the original text! By incorrectly putting the word "should" into the translation inserts the idea of "possibility," "may," or "what an individual can choose to do." Once again, creating the illusion that Arianism is how one "gets" saved instead of God predestinating those He chose to save.

Who is Peter writing to in this book? He is writing to those who are saved, those who believe, the sheep. He didn't write this as some open letter to be circulated among unbelievers, inviting them to get saved! So, when we see the word "us" in the verse, he talks about the saved! The verse should be translated "not willing that any of US," not simply using the word "any" alone. CONTEXT PLEASE!

What Peter is communicating in this verse is, God is patience, delaying the Day of the Lord, because it is His will/purpose/plan that all of the sheep (in the history of the world until Jesus returns) will not perish but will repent before Jesus returns. Not one sheep will be lost. At some point in time, the very last sheep will be born and there won't be anymore. You have to remember that Peter and the apostles, Paul and all of the believers in the 1st century believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. That is why Peter wrote this in the way he did, as if the return of Jesus was imminent. If you recall, the believers in Thessalonica were afraid because false teachers told them that the Day of the Lord had already happened and they had missed it.

No. All means all in 2 Peter 3:9. God wants literally all people to come to repentance. If God alone determined who will and who won't repent, with us having no responsibility to choose, then why would His patience have anything to do with repentance? It wouldn't. The fact that His patience is required for repentance shows that repentance depends on being given the opportunity to repent before it's too late. God patiently gives people the opportunity to repent, but they must choose to do so. If it was all completely up to Him, then He would not need to be patient regarding repentance. Think about that.

You are clearly very biased and that is why you interpret the verse the way you do. That verse lines up with other scripture like this:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

This passage very clearly indicates that God commands all people everywhere (the world, everyone) to repent, so it only follows that He desires for all people everywhere to repent. If He didn't then it wouldn't make sense for Him to command everyone to do so.

God wants all people to be saved which is why Christ sacrificed Himself not just for our sins who are saved now, but for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2).

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

 

[Chaleb]

2Pet 3:9 is not a "proof text" that teaches God "wants" everybody to get saved.

God wants all to be saved.

Why wouldn't He?

Is it because some are worth saving and others are not?

John 3:16 says that God sent Christ to save the "world'..... not just the Calvinist's.

So, the idea that the Cross is only for some, but not for all, denies the Cross. and "does despite to the spirit of Grace" and "tramples underfoot the Blood of Jesus".

Be careful of Cross deniers, Bob, as they infect pulpits and Forums like a spiritual cancer.

 

[Butch5]

2Pet 3:9 is not a "proof text" that teaches God "wants" everybody to get saved. Usually, only part of the verse is read, as the norm with false teaching, only reading a part of a verse to teach a lie. Let's show the entire verse;

For God is not slack concerning His promise (The return of Jesus, the Day of the Lord) as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Words don't lie. Men lie. Translators lie. As with so many other verses, some chicanery was going on with translating Greek into English. First, let's look at the English word "willing." When I first started to study Scripture, I was positive that both Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon were both 100% reliable word study tools. I was told this, I had read this, and there was a consensus that "Yes, you can trust these books." But as time went on I found out that this is not the case.

Using my handy English-to-Biblical Greek translator on my phone, I typed in the word "willing." Up popped the Greek word prothymous. I then typed in "not willing." The resulting Greek word is aprothymos. I found this to be very strange because in the Greek text, the word boulomai is used in this verse. The only way "not willing" should have been used in a translation would be if aprothymos were found written in the Greek manuscripts used by the translators.

When we look up the word boulomai in Strong's Dictionary, we are told that the word means: Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will", that is, (reflexively) be willing:-be disposed, minded, intend, list (be, of own) will (-ing).

Thayer's definition:
1. to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded.

And the winner is Thayer's definition. Strong's definition is wrong. Not just wrong, but made-up! Unfortunately, Thayer's didn't stop there. He also added a secondary definition that aligns more with what Strong said.

2. willing as an affection, to desire.

Thayer's also included: Origin: middle voice of a primary verb. The middle voice is when the subject is directly affected by the action expressed from the verb. A verb is an action word, not a word used to describe intent, hope, wish, or desire. The Companion Bible gives an explanation to clarify the meaning.

"Synonymous words for "will" and "wish."
Thelo means to wish or desire. It is therefore, stronger than boulomai because the natural impulse is stronger than the reasoned resolve. The noun thelema must also be noted as denoting desire rather than resolve. In like manner, the noun boulema is to be distinguished from thelema as denoting resolve, counsel, or determination.
In other words, if the concept of "willing," "desire," or "hope" were what Peter intended to express, a Greek word form of thelema would be found in the Greek text instead of boulomai!

The English word "all" is the Greek word pas. Pas is used in two ways in Scripture, 1. To mean each, every, the whole, everyone. 2. Some of all types. Bible Study Tools writes, "The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture, and IT IS VERY RARELY THAT THE "ALL" MEANS "ALL PERSONS." THE WORDS ARE GENERALLY USED TO SIGNIFY THAT CHRIST HAS REDEEMED SOME OF ALL SORTS, SOME JEWS, SOME GENTILES, SOME RICH. SOME POOR...

Let's look at the phrase "should come." If we look at the Greek text, we find the word choreo. I haven't studied this Greek word before, but it doesn't mean "should come." It has a number of different definitions that I am not going to list. First, there are only three Greek words that have been translated into the English word "should," dei, mello , and opheilo. None of these words are a part of 2Pet3:9 in the Greek.
There are 60 Greek words that have been translated into the English word "come." The word choreo is only translated into the word "come" one time. Now, let's look at the other verses that use the word.

Mat 15:17 "...in at the mouth goeth into the belly..."

Mat 19:11 "...said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying..."

Mat 19:12 "...He that is able to receive."

Mk 2:2 "...insomuch that there was no room to receive them..."

John 2:6 "...containing two or three..."

John 8:37 "...because my word hath no place in you..."

John 21:25 "that even the world could not contain the books."

2Cor 7:2 "Receive us..."

From how this word is translated in these other verses, it is plain to see that choreo has nothing to do with "come to repentance. After typing "should come" into the translator tool, the Greek came out prepei na erthei. This is not found in any Greek manuscript for 2Pet 3:9!

Finally, where the English reads "should perish" and "should come" are not in the original text! By incorrectly putting the word "should" into the translation inserts the idea of "possibility," "may," or "what an individual can choose to do." Once again, creating the illusion that Arianism is how one "gets" saved instead of God predestinating those He chose to save.

Who is Peter writing to in this book? He is writing to those who are saved, those who believe, the sheep. He didn't write this as some open letter to be circulated among unbelievers, inviting them to get saved! So, when we see the word "us" in the verse, he talks about the saved! The verse should be translated "not willing that any of US," not simply using the word "any" alone. CONTEXT PLEASE!

What Peter is communicating in this verse is, God is patience, delaying the Day of the Lord, because it is His will/purpose/plan that all of the sheep (in the history of the world until Jesus returns) will not perish but will repent before Jesus returns. Not one sheep will be lost. At some point in time, the very last sheep will be born and there won't be anymore. You have to remember that Peter and the apostles, Paul and all of the believers in the 1st century believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. That is why Peter wrote this in the way he did, as if the return of Jesus was imminent. If you recall, the believers in Thessalonica were afraid because false teachers told them that the Day of the Lord had already happened and they had missed it.

All doesn't mean all? I don't know how many times I've heard this. It's such a poor argument. If all doesn't mean all, what does it mean? All always means all. It can be used figuratively, but it still means all. Your break down of the passage doesn't seem correct to me. I'm looking at the Greek text at the moment. The "us" is most likely a reference to the apostles, not his readers. Also, I would submit that Peter didn't expect the Lord to return quickly when he wrote this. Firstly, this was likely written from Rome before he was executed. However, he had just said that a day with the Lord is as a thousand years. He was referring to what Daivd wrote.

For a thousand years in thy sight
Are but as yesterday when it is past,
And as a watch in the night.


The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Ps 90:4.

Peter also knew that the Gospel had to go to all nations before the end would come.

 

[anetazo]

God doesn't want to destroy any souls. Ezekiel chapter 18:20. The soul that sins , it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 18:23. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? Says the Lord God; . If the wicked don't repent and conform to God's standard. They will follow satan into lake of fire. God has no desire to blot out anyone soul. Those who reject Jesus as their salvation and wont repent. Its obvious what what happens. Most people have free will. They can follow Jesus or satan. It's a individual choice.

 

[Carl Emerson]

God wants all to be saved.

Why wouldn't He?

Is it because some are worth saving and others are not?

Paul said this in answer to your question...

Romans 9

does the potter not have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one object for honorable use, and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon objects of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 namely us, whom He also called, not only from among Jews, but also from among Gentiles

 

[BBAS 64]

No. All means all in 2 Peter 3:9. God wants literally all people to come to repentance. If God alone determined who will and who won't repent, with us having no responsibility to choose, then why would His patience have anything to do with repentance? It wouldn't. The fact that His patience is required for repentance shows that repentance depends on being given the opportunity to repent before it's too late. God patiently gives people the opportunity to repent, but they must choose to do so. If it was all completely up to Him, then He would not need to be patient regarding repentance. Think about that.

You are clearly very biased and that is why you interpret the verse the way you do. That verse lines up with other scripture like this:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

This passage very clearly indicates that God commands all people everywhere (the world, everyone) to repent, so it only follows that He desires for all people everywhere to repent. If He didn't then it wouldn't make sense for Him to command everyone to do so.

God wants all people to be saved which is why Christ sacrificed Himself not just for our sins who are saved now, but for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:1-2).

1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Good Day, SJ

The all means all fallacy... love it

In the text all in an adj. so it can not mean every body grammatically impossible.

pas
Thayer Definition:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: including all the forms of declension

You will see the the Us and the you that precede the adj. are pronouns, so the Adj are attached to these pronouns.

So all of us and all of you.


Now the question is what noun in the text does the us and you (pronouns) refer?

In Him,

Bill

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Good Day, SJ

The all means all fallacy... love it

It's not a fallacy, buddy. It does mean all in this case. Which can be backed up by other scripture.

In the text all in an adj. so it can not mean every body grammatically impossible.

pas
Thayer Definition:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: including all the forms of declension

You will see the the Us and the you that precede the adj. are pronouns, so the Adj are attached to these pronouns.

So all of us and all of you.


Now the question is what noun in the text does the us and you (pronouns) refer?

In Him,

Bill

You seem rather arrogant, Bill. It seems that you think you have refuted what I said here when that couldn't be further from the truth. The verse is saying that he is patient with us because he doesn't want anyone to perish. Do you think He wants anyone to perish, Bill? If that was the case then why does God love THE WORLD so much that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? Why did Jesus sacrifice Himself for the sins "OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (1 John 2:2) if God doesn't want everyone to repent and not perish? Do you read 2 Peter 3:9 without taking any other scripture into account, Bill?

Thankfully, we don't only have this one verse to refer to when determining the truth of this matter. We also have verses like those I referenced above and verses like these:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Are you going to try to tell me that "all people everywhere" is not a reference to all people, Bill? Even though the next verse refers to those same people as "the world" and "everyone"? I would hope not. So, clearly, God commands all people to repent. Why would He command all people to repent if He did not want all people to repent and not perish?

 

[Carl Emerson]

"the Lord is not slow to fulfil his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance"

It is not stated that all WILL come to repentance.

There is plenty of scripture confirming the opposite - Judas comes to mind... Herod...

And who among us has done everything He commanded ???

Silence...

He commands repentance - yes - but still God Haters reject Him to their last breath.

 

[BBAS 64]

It's not a fallacy, buddy. It does mean all in this case. Which can be backed up by other scripture.


You seem rather arrogant, Bill. It seems that you think you have refuted what I said here when that couldn't be further from the truth. The verse is saying that he is patient with us because he doesn't want anyone to perish. Do you think He wants anyone to perish, Bill? If that was the case then why does God love THE WORLD so much that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life? Why did Jesus sacrifice Himself for the sins "OF THE WHOLE WORLD" (1 John 2:2) if God doesn't want everyone to repent and not perish? Do you read 2 Peter 3:9 without taking any other scripture into account, Bill?

Thankfully, we don't only have this one verse to refer to when determining the truth of this matter. We also have verses like those I referenced above and verses like these:

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Are you going to try to tell me that "all people everywhere" is not a reference to all people, Bill? Even though the next verse refers to those same people as "the world" and "everyone"? I would hope not. So, clearly, God commands all people to repent. Why would He command all people to repent if He did not want all people to repent and not perish?

Good day, JS

Sorry you see me as that way... no worries.

I am not sure why you have run off to other texts I did share with you the range of meanings for the word translated "all" in case you missed it.

pas
Thayer Definition:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: including all the forms of declension.

Could you answer the question I asked about this text specifically:

You will see the the Us and the you that precede the adj. are pronouns, so the Adj are attached to these pronouns.

So all of us and all of you.


Now the question is what noun in the text does the us and you (pronouns) refer?"

Yes God does command every person every where to repent....

Yes out of His love for the world he gave his Son for the believers ( the ones DOING the Verb)

You might find a more (clunky) literal translation useful:

Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

Do you believe that every single person that has ever been in Jerusalem, has been in Jerusalem and will forever be Baptized in the Jordan?

Mar 1:5 and there were going forth to him all the region of Judea, and they of Jerusalem, and they were all baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.


In Him,

Bill

 

[msortwell]

2 Peter 3:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ . . .

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

That all would come to repentance . . . all WHAT? All people? All beings (human and angelic)? All mammals? If we are to understand the verse, we must decide to whom "all" refers. The language of the verse, I believe, must be relied upon to answer the question. Peter is referring to those with whom God is being patient - and God is being patient to those Peter refers to as "us." Peter is writing to the beloved - the believing. God is patient that all that are to come to faith, all that are to repent, do so - and God is willing to wait until that occurs.

 

[Dan Perez]

2Pet 3:9 is not a "proof text" that teaches God "wants" everybody to get saved. Usually, only part of the verse is read, as the norm with false teaching, only reading a part of a verse to teach a lie. Let's show the entire verse;

For God is not slack concerning His promise (The return of Jesus, the Day of the Lord) as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Words don't lie. Men lie. Translators lie. As with so many other verses, some chicanery was going on with translating Greek into English. First, let's look at the English word "willing." When I first started to study Scripture, I was positive that both Strong's Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon were both 100% reliable word study tools. I was told this, I had read this, and there was a consensus that "Yes, you can trust these books." But as time went on I found out that this is not the case.

Using my handy English-to-Biblical Greek translator on my phone, I typed in the word "willing." Up popped the Greek word prothymous. I then typed in "not willing." The resulting Greek word is aprothymos. I found this to be very strange because in the Greek text, the word boulomai is used in this verse. The only way "not willing" should have been used in a translation would be if aprothymos were found written in the Greek manuscripts used by the translators.

When we look up the word boulomai in Strong's Dictionary, we are told that the word means: Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will", that is, (reflexively) be willing:-be disposed, minded, intend, list (be, of own) will (-ing).

Thayer's definition:
1. to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded.

And the winner is Thayer's definition. Strong's definition is wrong. Not just wrong, but made-up! Unfortunately, Thayer's didn't stop there. He also added a secondary definition that aligns more with what Strong said.

2. willing as an affection, to desire.

Thayer's also included: Origin: middle voice of a primary verb. The middle voice is when the subject is directly affected by the action expressed from the verb. A verb is an action word, not a word used to describe intent, hope, wish, or desire. The Companion Bible gives an explanation to clarify the meaning.

"Synonymous words for "will" and "wish."
Thelo means to wish or desire. It is therefore, stronger than boulomai because the natural impulse is stronger than the reasoned resolve. The noun thelema must also be noted as denoting desire rather than resolve. In like manner, the noun boulema is to be distinguished from thelema as denoting resolve, counsel, or determination.
In other words, if the concept of "willing," "desire," or "hope" were what Peter intended to express, a Greek word form of thelema would be found in the Greek text instead of boulomai!

The English word "all" is the Greek word pas. Pas is used in two ways in Scripture, 1. To mean each, every, the whole, everyone. 2. Some of all types. Bible Study Tools writes, "The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture, and IT IS VERY RARELY THAT THE "ALL" MEANS "ALL PERSONS." THE WORDS ARE GENERALLY USED TO SIGNIFY THAT CHRIST HAS REDEEMED SOME OF ALL SORTS, SOME JEWS, SOME GENTILES, SOME RICH. SOME POOR...

Let's look at the phrase "should come." If we look at the Greek text, we find the word choreo. I haven't studied this Greek word before, but it doesn't mean "should come." It has a number of different definitions that I am not going to list. First, there are only three Greek words that have been translated into the English word "should," dei, mello , and opheilo. None of these words are a part of 2Pet3:9 in the Greek.
There are 60 Greek words that have been translated into the English word "come." The word choreo is only translated into the word "come" one time. Now, let's look at the other verses that use the word.

Mat 15:17 "...in at the mouth goeth into the belly..."

Mat 19:11 "...said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying..."

Mat 19:12 "...He that is able to receive."

Mk 2:2 "...insomuch that there was no room to receive them..."

John 2:6 "...containing two or three..."

John 8:37 "...because my word hath no place in you..."

John 21:25 "that even the world could not contain the books."

2Cor 7:2 "Receive us..."

From how this word is translated in these other verses, it is plain to see that choreo has nothing to do with "come to repentance. After typing "should come" into the translator tool, the Greek came out prepei na erthei. This is not found in any Greek manuscript for 2Pet 3:9!

Finally, where the English reads "should perish" and "should come" are not in the original text! By incorrectly putting the word "should" into the translation inserts the idea of "possibility," "may," or "what an individual can choose to do." Once again, creating the illusion that Arianism is how one "gets" saved instead of God predestinating those He chose to save.

Who is Peter writing to in this book? He is writing to those who are saved, those who believe, the sheep. He didn't write this as some open letter to be circulated among unbelievers, inviting them to get saved! So, when we see the word "us" in the verse, he talks about the saved! The verse should be translated "not willing that any of US," not simply using the word "any" alone. CONTEXT PLEASE!

What Peter is communicating in this verse is, God is patience, delaying the Day of the Lord, because it is His will/purpose/plan that all of the sheep (in the history of the world until Jesus returns) will not perish but will repent before Jesus returns. Not one sheep will be lost. At some point in time, the very last sheep will be born and there won't be anymore. You have to remember that Peter and the apostles, Paul and all of the believers in the 1st century believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. That is why Peter wrote this in the way he did, as if the return of Jesus was imminent. If you recall, the believers in Thessalonica were afraid because false teachers told them that the Day of the Lord had already happened and they had missed it.

You have some of it right .

The Greek word NOT / ME is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and not means NOT EVERRRRRRRRR.

WILLING is a seprate Greek word , BOULOMIA and is in the PRESENT TENSE , MIDDLE OR PASSIVE VOICE and is a PARTICIPLE , SINGULAR .

And the CONTEXT with out a doubt is all about Israel >

dan p

 

[Foghorn]

God wants all to be saved.

If God wanted all to be saved, all would be.

Why wouldn't He?

Is it because some are worth saving and others are not?

Of course not. No one is worthy. Unconditional election.

John 3:16 says that God sent Christ to save the "world'..... not just the Calvinist's.

No, it doesn't. Arte you reading from a different bible? Mine says, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

So, the idea that the Cross is only for some, but not for all, denies the Cross.

According to you. Do you have any scripture support? Obviously, you don't have John 3:16, unless you interpret and rewrite it as you like.

and "does despite to the spirit of Grace" and "tramples underfoot the Blood of Jesus".

What are you talking about?

Be careful of Cross deniers, Bob, as they infect pulpits and Forums like a spiritual cancer.

You have absolutely no support for anything you said.

 

[Foghorn]

"the Lord is not slow to fulfil his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance"

It is not stated that all WILL come to repentance.

There is plenty of scripture confirming the opposite - Judas comes to mind... Herod...

And who among us has done everything He commanded ???

Silence...

He commands repentance - yes - but still God Haters reject Him to their last breath.

Agreed!

 

[Foghorn]

2 Peter 3:9 Commentaries: The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

"Not willing that any should perish - That is, He does not desire it or wish it. His nature is benevolent, and He sincerely desires the eternal happiness of all, and His patience toward sinners "proves" that He is willing that they should be saved. If He were not willing, it would be easy for Him to cut them off, and exclude them from hope immediately."

I think you have to know who Peter is writing too. It’s obvious I believe, it is to believers.
Is Hod is not willing any should perish and that all will come to repentance, then that’s what it shall be.

2 Peter 3:9,
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

He is speaking about God fulfilling His promise. And according to His promise none of His chosen will perish. The end will not come until the last elect comes to repentance.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I think you have to know who Peter is writing too. It’s obvious I believe, it is to believers.
Is Hod is not willing any should perish and that all will come to repentance, then that’s what it shall be.

2 Peter 3:9,
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

He is speaking about God fulfilling His promise. And according to His promise none of His chosen will perish. The end will not come until the last elect comes to repentance.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

If God wanted all to be saved, all would be.

Thats just it God does want all to be saved but does not force anyone to believe in Him. The gospel is for all people everywhere. God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Because God loves all sinners His gospel is for all sinners. Love requires the ability to love in return and that freely. A forced love is no love at all, a coerced love is not real love either but a love where to people freely love each other is a genuine love.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

2 Peter 3:9 Commentaries: The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

"Not willing that any should perish - That is, He does not desire it or wish it. His nature is benevolent, and He sincerely desires the eternal happiness of all, and His patience toward sinners "proves" that He is willing that they should be saved. If He were not willing, it would be easy for Him to cut them off, and exclude them from hope immediately."

ditto

 

[Foghorn]

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

hope this helps !!!

And you’re saying?

And would you care to take the verses separately in their context to see what’s being said?