20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[jgr]

You're an intelligent person. Why don't you?

Let's assume that when they pray to God, God does not hear their prayers because of their rejection of His Son. That is not what is in question though, does God even hear their prayers. What's in question then, what Douggg was inquiring about, where it seems like that has went over your head for some reason, who do these Jews think they are praying to? Do they think they are praying to the one true God, the God of Abraham, or do they think they are praying to a God not even recorded in their Bibles, the old testament?

I'm not a Jew, so I have no idea whom they think they're praying to.

But since they're both Fatherless and Sonless (1 John 2:23), their prayers are of utterly no avail.

So whom they think they're praying to is irrelevant.

Unless they pray the sinner's prayer to receive the Son.

At which point they are transformed from Jews by religion, to Christians by grace.

 

[Hank77]

Muslims believe they are praying to the same God as the Jews, the God of the OT, the God of Moses.

 

[jgr]

They are God-fearing and have a strong desire to keep the Torah.

Their Talmud takes precedence over their Torah:

"Where did the authority come from to give these Rabbis the authorization to make rulings and writings that would be different from God's own words? The answer is, they gave it to themselves.

Consider the passage written in the Talmud, where the rabbis believe themselves so wise that their wisdom has replaced the wisdom of divinely chosen prophets.

R. Abdimi from Haifa said: "Since the day when the Temple was destroyed, prophecy has been taken from the prophets and given to the wise. Is then a wise man not also a prophet?" 12 — What he meant was this: Although it has been taken from the prophets, it has not been taken from the wise. Amemar said: A wise man is even superior to a prophet. (1)

The prevailing view of the Sages was that they had superseded and taken over the role of the prophet"

 

[Douggg]

Muslims believe they are praying to the same God as the Jews, the God of the OT, the God of Moses.

The Muslims pray to Allah, the god of Mohamed, which the Muslims say that Christians and Jews changed up the bible.

The two major claims of the Muslims are that Abraham was about to sacrifice Ishmael, not Issac. And two, that Jesus did not die on the cross, that God put someone else there and made it look like to everyone that it was Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

Their Talmud takes precedence over their Torah:

"Where did the authority come from to give these Rabbis the authorization to make rulings and writings that would be different from God's own words? The answer is, they gave it to themselves.

Consider the passage written in the Talmud, where the rabbis believe themselves so wise that their wisdom has replaced the wisdom of divinely chosen prophets.

R. Abdimi from Haifa said: "Since the day when the Temple was destroyed, prophecy has been taken from the prophets and given to the wise. Is then a wise man not also a prophet?" 12 — What he meant was this: Although it has been taken from the prophets, it has not been taken from the wise. Amemar said: A wise man is even superior to a prophet. (1)

The prevailing view of the Sages was that they had superseded and taken over the role of the prophet"

There are major league problems in Judaism. Nobody here is saying there is not.

 

[Douggg]

But I'm not asking you about that. You seem to be trying to change the subject here and I wonder why.

I'm asking you about Jews in the past 2,000 years who knew of Jesus but chose not to believe in Him. What do you believe will happen to them? Before, you said they are God's chosen people so do you believe they will avoid being cast into the lake of fire just based on being Jews?

My answer is the same as the first time.

 

[Hank77]

The Muslims pray to Allah, the god of Mohamed, which the Muslims say that Christians and Jews changed up the bible.

The two major claims of the Muslims are that Abraham was about to sacrifice Ishmael, not Issac. And two, that Jesus did not die on the cross, that God put someone else there and made it look like to everyone that it was Jesus.

Then they believe that they are praying to the God of Abraham.

 

[Douggg]

Can you show me where the Olivet Discourse teaches that? I see that it says He will come "immediately after the tribulation of those days" and I see that He judges people when He returns (Matt 25:31-46) which results in some people inheriting eternal life in the kingdom prepared for them "from the foundation of the world" and the rest being cast into "everlasting fire", but I don't see any description of Him ruling the nations there.

Jesus ruling the nations with a rod of iron - after God placing Him as King in Zion - is in Psalms 2.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
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Directly quoted in Revelation 2:26, of them who will rule with Jesus.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

[Douggg]

Then they believe that they are praying to the God of Abraham.

Their version of Abraham.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

My answer is the same as the first time.

Which tells me you are avoiding answering my question since it doesn't have to do with the age of accountability. I'm asking about Jews who are of the age of accountability who know about Jesus but reject Him. What will happen to them on the day of judgment? Is this question too hard for you to give a straight answer to?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jesus ruling the nations with a rod of iron - after God placing Him as King in Zion - is in Psalms 2.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
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Directly quoted in Revelation 2:26, of them who will rule with Jesus.

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Does this mean your answer to my question is no, there isn't anything in the Olivet Discourse which teaches this? You sure have a hard time giving straightforward answers.

As for Him ruling with a rod of iron, did you forget about this passage:

Revelation 19:
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Be honest here. Does this passage give a picture of Jesus ruling over His enemies on the earth or of Jesus destroying His enemies when He returns? Does the picture of having birds feed on "the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small" paint a picture of Jesus ruling over those people to you? He's not going to rule over dead people and this passage says they will all be killed when He returns. There is no possibly way for you to reconcile your doctrine with this passage.

 

[Douggg]

Which tells me you are avoiding answering my question since it doesn't have to do with the age of accountability.

I did not say "age" of accountability. I said point of accountability. My post 5156.

 

[Douggg]

Does this mean your answer to my question is no, there isn't anything in the Olivet Discourse which teaches this? You sure have a hard time giving straightforward answers.

Since I did not give any passage from the Olivet Discourse, I thought the answer was obviously no.

 

[jgr]

There are major league problems in Judaism. Nobody here is saying there is not.

There is no greater major league problem than the rejection of Christ.

 

[Douggg]

Be honest here. Does this passage give a picture of Jesus ruling over His enemies on the earth or of Jesus destroying His enemies when He returns? Does the picture of having birds feed on "the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small" paint a picture of Jesus ruling over those people to you? He's not going to rule over dead people and this passage says they will all be killed when He returns. There is no possibly way for you to reconcile your doctrine with this passage.

rapture> then the great tribulation>then Jesus returns, destroying those armies gathered to make war on Him> then the 1000 year rule of Jesus with a rod of iron over the heathen.

That is the general universal teaching of pre-trib, pre-mil.

You are misinterpreting the passage in verse 18 to mean all people upon the earth. But it is all people, no matter what their importance, who gather to make war on Jesus. Not all people upon the earth.

Revelation 19:17-18 is a repeat of Ezekiel 39:17-20. In verse 21-29 it is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having set His glory among the heathen. It simply means that Jesus is back here on earth.

Psalms 2, why do the people rage and image a vain thing is a passage regarding the king of the earth gathering their armies to make war on Jesus.

In Psalms 110,
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

 

[Douggg]

There is no greater major league problem than the rejection of Christ.

no doubt.

 

[Guojing]

But that is not what the prophecy itself says would be the purpose of the animal sacrifices and sin offerings. Have you never read this:

Ezekiel 45:15 And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord God. 16 All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. 17 And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

It does not say their purpose would be "to remember the perfect work of Christ on the cross" as you say. Instead, it says they would be "to make reconciliation for the house of Israel". Hasn't Christ already done that with His sacrifice on the cross? Of course He has. You're trying to change the scripture to fit your view.

The point is, there is nothing to object about sacrificing animals, even during the Millennium reign of Christ

 

[Guojing]

When did I say otherwise? Can you try to get over this and stop bringing this up all the time? I've already said that what I share is my interpretation and not a fact. So, just remember that, okay? I shouldn't have to spell it out every time. You obviously don't like it when someone is very confident about their view, but that shouldn't be the case. It doesn't mean someone is stating their interpretation as a fact.

Because you keep making statements like the following

Scripture never teaches such a thing.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The point is, there is nothing to object about sacrificing animals, even during the Millennium reign of Christ

Really?

Hebrews 10:18 says, “there is no more offering for sin.”

You say the opposite. You say there will be countless more offerings for sin.

You fail to see: Calvary completely finished the Old Testament shadow and type. That is why there is no more sacrifice for sin. I find your belief extraordinary. Honestly! This belief should not be allowed on an evangelical site. It is a direct assault upon the cross. It undermines the finished work of Christ. It abrogates the new covenant.

Hebrews 10:26 says, “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.”

Who are the consistent literalists? Amils! We take Scripture at its word.

It is both alarming and sad how many (that sincerely profess Christ) champion the re-starting of rival sin offerings in the future to compete with Calvary when Christ fulfilled and eternally removed them at the Cross. Most of this error has emanated from false teaching of men that should know better. The fact is, the New Testament totally forbids the resurrection of the old covenant including the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem, the restarting of the abolished animal sacrifices, and the resuming of earthly high priest’s office, as part of a God-ordained arrangement. Their expectation to return to the Old Testament type, shadow and figure is gravely misplaced.

It is as if Christ’s perfect life, atoning death and glorious resurrection are not enough for Premils; not perfect enough, not satisfactory enough, and not final enough.

Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Scripture describes the old covenant sacrificial system as “that which is done away” (2 Corinthians 3:11) and “that which is abolished” (2 Corinthians 3:13). It makes clear: “the old testament … vail is done away in Christ" (2 Corinthians 3:14). Hebrews 10:9 confirms: “He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” Hebrews 10:2 confirms they “ceased to be offered?

 

[jgr]

The point is, there is nothing to object about sacrificing animals, even during the Millennium reign of Christ

Seems you missed these.

Hebrews 10:6
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Hebrews 10:8
Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;