20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[jgr]

Naturally, the claims that one disagree with, one would think they are false.

Opinions does not mean facts.

What opinions are you referring to?

 

[Guojing]

What opinions are you referring to?

Yours and mine.

Whenever we interpret scripture, we are expressing an opinion.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yours and mine.

Whenever we interpret scripture, we are expressing an opinion.

Then, it might be wise for Futurists to let the Book speak for itself.

 

[Guojing]

Then, it might be wise for Futurists to let the Book speak for itself.

None of us read Scripture in a vacuum.

All of us are influenced by the church we are from, the preachers we watch online, the books we read, etc

 

[jgr]

Yours and mine.

Whenever we interpret scripture, we are expressing an opinion.

An opinion that expresses truth becomes a fact.

 

[Guojing]

An opinion that expresses truth becomes a fact.

Nowadays with Internet, that depends on which echo chamber one places himself in, and how many likes that opinion receives from that echo chamber. =)

 

[sovereigngrace]

None of us read Scripture in a vacuum.

All of us are influenced by the church we are from, the preachers we watch online, the books we read, etc

I was brought up Pretrib Premil but come across many contradictions in them. I started an incredible search for myself. I studied Genesis to Jude because I found Revelation so difficult. Genesis to Jude taught me: when Jesus comes that it is! Men are either saved or lost, heaven or hell, caught up or caught on. It is all over. It is the end. There will be a general resurrection/judgment. I am now Amil.

Some of us lent upon the Word of God alone to ascertain truth.

 

[Guojing]

I was brought up Pretrib Premil but come across many contradictions in them. I started an incredible search for myself. I studied Genesis to Jude because I found Revelation so difficult. Genesis to Jude taught me: when Jesus comes that it is! Men are either saved or lost, heaven or hell, caught up or caught on. It is all over. It is the end. There will be a general resurrection/judgment. I am now Amil.

Some of us lent upon the Word of God alone to ascertain truth.

Nice to know your personal testimony. You did read books and listened to preachers on the Internet who espoused those views correct?

 

[jgr]

Nowadays with Internet, that depends on which echo chamber one places himself in, and how many likes that opinion receives from that echo chamber. =)

The internet is a force for both good and evil.
Its use requires wisdom and discernment.
But we don't need the internet to inform us about Matthew 15:24.
Do you wish to continue to discuss it?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Nice to know your personal testimony. You did read books and listened to preachers on the Internet who espoused those views correct?

No. All the preaching I was under was Premil. I did not go searching for any Amil preachers. I only read books after I had ascertained the truth. I kept to Scripture. I even traveled to a Premil conference in Scotland at the beginning of 2000 to see how my findings could stand scrutiny.

 

[Guojing]

No. All the preaching I was under was Premil. I did not go searching for any Amil preachers. I only read books after I had ascertained the truth. I kept to Scripture. I even traveled to a Premil conference in Scotland at the beginning of 2000 to see how my findings could stand scrutiny.

I only read books after I had ascertained the truth. I kept to Scripture.

===

I believe for all of us, learning is a dynamic process. Over time, what we take as truth is consolidated and strengthened, as we read and learn from different sources.

So I felt it was interesting that you expressed certainty that only AFTER you ascertained the truth from reading scripture ALONE, THEN you read those books.

But nevertheless, if you claim that to be true for you, I can respect that.

 

[Guojing]

The internet is a force for both good and evil.
Its use requires wisdom and discernment.
But we don't need the internet to inform us about Matthew 15:24.
Do you wish to continue to discuss it?

If you want to, sure.

Do you also subscribed to what Moriah said about that verse here? 20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

 

[jgr]

If you want to, sure.

Do you also subscribed to what Moriah said about that verse here? 20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

OK. We first need to decide what sheep Jesus was referring to. Were they:

1. Literal animals
2. Figurative people

 

[Guojing]

OK. We first need to decide what sheep Jesus was referring to. Were they:

1. Literal animals
2. Figurative people

My view is that it refers to unbelieving Jews from Israel, based on a cross reference verse Matthew 9:36, as well as the context in Matthew 15 when that gentile woman approach him.

 

[jgr]

My view is that it refers to unbelieving Jews from Israel, based on a cross reference verse Matthew 9:36, as well as the context in Matthew 15 when that gentile woman approach him.

I would agree that it included them, but also extended beyond them. Those of the house of Israel were known as Israelites, and Israelites were comprised of both descendants of Abraham, and non-descendants of Abraham. (Genesis 17:12). So Jesus ministry was to lost Israelites.

 

[Guojing]

I would agree that it included them, but also extended beyond them. Those of the house of Israel were known as Israelites, and Israelites were comprised of both descendants of Abraham, and non-descendants of Abraham. (Genesis 17:12). So Jesus ministry was to lost Israelites.

That I can agree with, as long as you don't include gentiles into "lost Israelites".

 

[jgr]

That I can agree with, as long as you don't include gentiles into "lost Israelites".

Non-descendants of Abraham were ultimately known as Gentiles.

 

[Guojing]

Non-descendants of Abraham were ultimately known as Gentiles.

In that case I would disagree then.

In time past, which includes the time of Jesus first coming, if gentiles want to be included in covenant God made with Jacob's descendants, they have to join the nation of Israel too. (Ephesians 2:11-12, Romans 15:8).

 

[sovereigngrace]

I only read books after I had ascertained the truth. I kept to Scripture.

===

I believe for all of us, learning is a dynamic process. Over time, what we take as truth is consolidated and strengthened, as we read and learn from different sources.

So I felt it was interesting that you expressed certainty that only AFTER you ascertained the truth from reading scripture ALONE, THEN you read those books.

But nevertheless, if you claim that to be true for you, I can respect that.

I did not want my studies to be colored by man. My dad had been a Pretrib Premil pastor and I had respected him a lot. He was the biggest influence on me growing up. But i knew i needed to depend upon the Word.

 

[jgr]

In that case I would disagree then.

In time past, which includes the time of Jesus first coming, if gentiles want to be included in covenant God made with Jacob's descendants, they have to join the nation of Israel too. (Ephesians 2:11-12, Romans 15:8).

Yes, in the earlier days of Israel, they were part of the nation.

But over the millennia, they could be found in every nation. (Acts 2:5; Acts 10:34-35)