2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[FreeGrace2]

And we simply NEED to know this in order to advance in the life He has planned for us. Or to mature in Him.

We may have went to seminary, been saved for 50 years, have our lives cleaned up to the max and done many wonderful works.........But our RELATIONSHIP with Christ and the life He had planned for us is stuck on start. Because we never got past infancy and the milk of His word.

Well said!

 

[JLB777]

OSASrs believe if you once believed you can sin like the devil and go to heaven. They believe they have fire insurance.

They promote Heresy.

Those who promote heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


JLB

 

[JLB777]

So, It is grace that fails if you don't quite measure up when you die and face judgment?

And By the way......I know what Grace is. Yet, you have grace contingent on how well JLB behave's.



Easy. 1 John 3:15. If a brother hates his brother.......He is not ABIDING in the eternal he HAS.

That pesky word "abide" is a spear to the heart of your false doctrine. How can one abide.......in something they don't have?


The wind is out of your sails..........so keep being borderline insane with your questions.

If you believe a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life, then please post the scripture that says so.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15




JLB

 

[JLB777]

In fact, no grace, no power. It's that simple. And your theology has no grace in it.


Please square this claim with your previous claims that eternal life is given at 'the judgment". As it is, you're quite conflicted.

How can any believer have eternal life if it is given at "the judgment"?

If you believe a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life, then please post the scripture that says so.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Now, that is grace. And those who believe salvation can be lost don't understand grace.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


Please post the scripture that teaches us a brother who Is a murderer still has eternal life.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

They promote Heresy.

You have totally failed to prove your opinion.

In fact, your opinion has been thoroughly refuted, repeatedly.

Those who promote heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Absolutely correct. But those who have believed have received the gift of eternal life and shall never perish. So they'll be IN the kingdom. Eph 5:5.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
JLB

Don't forget 1 Cor 6 and Eph 5:5. All 3 are parallel passages and therefore, to "not inherit the kingdom" is equated with "have no inheritance in the kingdom".

If you have every believed solely in the perfect work of Jesus Christ on the cross for your sins and trusted solely in Him alone for salvation, then He gave you eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11, 13), and on that basis, you will never perish (Jn 10:28).

However, because of the heresies you now push, you will NOT have any inheritance IN God's kingdom.

i recommend repentance (a change of mind) and start growing in your faith (if you ever believed solely on Christ for salvation).

If not, those who never believed will be condemned and because their names are not in the book of life (Rev 20:15) they will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you believe a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life, then please post the scripture that says so.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
JLB

When are you going to explain your obvious contradiction, because you have argued that eternal life is given at "the judgment", which means AFTER physical death.

So, which is it?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please post the scripture that teaches us a brother who Is a murderer still has eternal life.
JLB

If by "brother" you are referring to a person who has believed in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, then we know that Jesus gave him eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And, as a direct result of receiving eternal life, that "brother" shall never perish.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

It is sad that in spite of repeating these very clear verses so much, you still reject them.

The issue is NEVER about how believers act regarding their eternal state. It's ONLY about what Christ did for those who ever believed.

Here are 2 verses that speak of who will be condemned:
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The issue has always been about whether a person has EVER believed. If so, they were given eternal life and shall never perish.

Why anyone would try to push the opinion that some action can result in condemnation is blasphemy against the work of Christ, who died for ALL sins of ALL people.

But it seems you don't believe that either.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

They promote Heresy.

Those who promote heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


JLB

It’s very sad how they turn the grace of God into license. They guarantee others Heaven no matter what evil they do. I think it’s sad.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If by "brother" you are referring to a person who has believed in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, then we know that Jesus gave him eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

And, as a direct result of receiving eternal life, that "brother" shall never perish.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

It is sad that in spite of repeating these very clear verses so much, you still reject them.

The issue is NEVER about how believers act regarding their eternal state. It's ONLY about what Christ did for those who ever believed.

Here are 2 verses that speak of who will be condemned:
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The issue has always been about whether a person has EVER believed. If so, they were given eternal life and shall never perish.

Why anyone would try to push the opinion that some action can result in condemnation is blasphemy against the work of Christ, who died for ALL sins of ALL people.

But it seems you don't believe that either.

No love of God just love of the gift, as long as it’s free, of course.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It’s very sad how they turn the grace of God into license.

The doctrine of eternal security does not do that. However, the opposite is blasphemy; by the notion that the salvation that God provides BY GRACE can be lost by works.

And you guys seem to have no clue about it.

Jesus was clear: those He gives eternal life (believers, when they believe) shall never perish.

They guarantee others Heaven no matter what evil they do. I think it’s sad.

Not at all. Jesus makes that claim. Again, He said, in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

But, obviously, you don't believe what He said. Your view is that any believer who (fill in the blank_________), shall PERISH.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No love of God just love of the gift, as long as it’s free, of course.

So, are you really saying that eternal life isn't a free gift?

Why do you believe that eternal life is earned?

No one deserves eternal life, and no one earns it.

 

[Gr8Grace]

If you believe a brother can hate his brother and still have eternal life, then please post the scripture that says so.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15




JLB

You don't believe anybody has eternal life. Whether they are loving or hateful towards others.

If one believes......they have eternal life.

If one believes and are deceived into thinking eternal life comes at the judgment..........they are not ABIDING in the eternal life they HAVE. A worthless and useless life.

Tell us about the word 'abide' in the verse you use.

 

[Gr8Grace]

It’s very sad how they turn the grace of God into license. They guarantee others Heaven no matter what evil they do. I think it’s sad.

It is obvious you don't know what evil is.

It sure seems you believe EVIL gets us into heaven. Because EVIL is our own righteousness.

Christ paid for all, ALL sin.......but He didn't pay for EVIL.......Your self righteous works to get into heaven.

It seems you guarantee that evil(your self righteous works) gets you into heaven.

 

[Gr8Grace]

No love of God just love of the gift, as long as it’s free, of course.

Says every worker for salvation.

No love of God. No love of His gift.......Just arrogance, pride and love of their working so hard for 'Him'.

Forget the Cross. Forget the debt HE paid. Forget Him being FORSAKEN by His Father...........I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I,I, did good for 'Him'(don't tell anyone it was all ME.)

 

[FreeGrace2]

You don't believe anybody has eternal life. Whether they are loving or hateful towards others.

If one believes......they have eternal life.

If one believes and are deceived into thinking eternal life comes at the judgment..........they are not ABIDING in the eternal life they HAVE. A worthless and useless life.

Tell us about the word 'abide' in the verse you use.

Excellent response!!

 

[BNR32FAN]

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

This verse states in very clear and plain words that condemnation is for everyone who has not believed the gospel.

The words "have not believed" is in the aorist tense; meaning believed in a point of time. Past time.

The Arminian claim that one must continue to believe in order to avoid hell (losing salvation) is refuted by this verse. If that claim were true, Paul would have written it this way:

"so that all will be condemned who do not continue to believe the truth".

So the aorist tense once again refutes the claim of Arminians.

In fact, 2 Thess 2:12 parallels both of these verses:

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Here's how: Jn 5:24 says those who believe "will not be judged/condemned".

John 10:28 says recipients "of eternal life (believers) shall never perish".

It will be interesting and instructive to see how Arminians, if any do, will respond to this thread.

2 Thessalonians 2:12 in order judged all who not believe who truth who pleasure wickedness.

That’s the original word for word Greek translation. Believe is not mentioned in the past tense. It is mentioned in the present tense.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The doctrine of eternal security does not do that. However, the opposite is blasphemy; by the notion that the salvation that God provides BY GRACE can be lost by works.

And you guys seem to have no clue about it.

Jesus was clear: those He gives eternal life (believers, when they believe) shall never perish.


Not at all. Jesus makes that claim. Again, He said, in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

But, obviously, you don't believe what He said. Your view is that any believer who (fill in the blank_________), shall PERISH.

Brother your teaching people to just ignore John 15:6. They don’t need to abide. When we are given eternal life it means it is been granted to us but no one has received it until after we die. It is the life that is eternal not the gift. Because we have not yet received it it can be taken away. It doesn’t become eternal until we receive it after being victorious and enduring to the end.

““Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

“Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. “So you, too, must keep watch! For you don’t know what day your Lord is coming. Understand this: If a homeowner knew exactly when a burglar was coming, he would keep watch and not permit his house to be broken into. You also must be ready all the time, for the Son of Man will come when least expected. “A faithful, sensible servant is one to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his other household servants and feeding them. If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. I tell you the truth, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. But what if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ and he begins beating the other servants, partying, and getting drunk? The master will return unannounced and unexpected, and he will cut the servant to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:9-13, 40-51‬ ‭NLT‬‬

The context of Matthew 24 is remaining a faithful servant. Whenever you see the scriptures mention someone who is saved the word believe is in the present tense. Not past tense.

 

[FreeGrace2]

2 Thessalonians 2:12 in order judged all who not believe who truth who pleasure wickedness.

That’s the original word for word Greek translation. Believe is not mentioned in the past tense. It is mentioned in the present tense.

Did you even research a lexicon for the Greek word. It is in the AORIST TENSE, not present tense.

I have an interlinear that reads this way:
in order that may be judged all the [ones] not having believed the truth but having had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The aorist tense is the Greek equivalent to the English past tense.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Brother your teaching people to just ignore John 15:6. They don’t need to abide.

I absolutely AM NOT teaching any such thing. I AM teaching that salvation is based on receiving eternal life, which is through faith in Christ.

All believers ARE commanded to abide in Christ. This is the ONLY WAY to bear fruit. Is that important? Of course it is. But not for receiving salvation. It is important for glorifying God and being rewarded for obedience.

When we are given eternal life it means it is been granted to us but no one has received it until after we die.

OK, now it's time to discuss the PRESENT TENSE.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. Note: doesn't say "will have".

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Note: this is the aorist tense, reflecting a PAST TENSE action.

It is the life that is eternal not the gift.

The reason the Bible speaks of being born AGAIN, the NEW birth, and REgeneration, is because Jesus gives us eternal LIFE, when we believe.

Because we have not yet received it it can be taken away.

Not only do you NOT have any verse that supports your opinion, I've just given you verses that REFUTE your opinion.

It doesn’t become eternal until we receive it after being victorious and enduring to the end.

The verses I've shared REFUTE your opinions.

““Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Just check the context regarding what "the end" refers to. It ain't the end of your life, as you opine.

The context of Matthew 24 is remaining a faithful servant.

Actually, it is specifically about the 7 year Tribulation, which is just before the Millennial reign of Christ on earth.

Whenever you see the scriptures mention someone who is saved the word believe is in the present tense. Not past tense.

You are simply quite UNAWARE of how often the aorist tense is used. Get a lexicon and do some research.

When Paul evangelized the jailer he said, "believe (aorist tense) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

Aorist tense refers to a point in time, usually past tense as a completed action. Here, Paul is simply showing that believing recedes being saved. No one is saved before they believe.