2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

JLB777 said:

What about The truth of John 10:27?

I notice you and FG never mention the context of John 10:28 nor do you post scripture unless you are called out about it.

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Do you really think that LYING is cute?

From my post #1703, which is on this page above:
"you said:↑
Then why do you always refuse to quote it, and attempt to explain it away."

I responded:
"This is directly from post #1568, on page 79:

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

OK, for the color coded explanation.

The red words identify who will be given eternal life.
The blue words are a description of what His sheep DO.
The green words are a statement of the CAUSE of possessing eternal life.
The purple words are a statement of the EFFECT of possessing eternal life.
The brown words is a summary statement of eternal security.

There it is, in FULL COLOR. v.27 identifies the recipients of eternal life.
v.28 is the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life.

You are free to provide an explanation of how my explanation is incorrect, if you are able to do that.

So, what was your response to my color coded explanation of the 2 verses? This very lame question:
"Then why do you always refuse to quote it, and attempt to explain it away"

First, I directly quoted both verses, so your claim that I "always refuse to quote it" is a total LIE.

And second, if my color coded explanation is nothing more than an "attempt to explain it away", then why aren't you capable of proving your claim and showing how and why that's all I did?

iow, prove that the color coded words DON'T match my explanation.

But, to do that, you'd have to also prove that 1 + 1 = 1 million."

So, in 2 posts (1568 and 1703) I gave you a full color explanation of BOTH verses. Yet you continue to LIE your head off by saying that I never address v.27.

What is your problem, anyway?
Instead of simply addressing either post, and explaining how and why my full color coded explanation cannot be correct, all you do is continue to resort to LYING.

Aren't you the one who quotes Rev 21:8 as ways believers CAN perish?
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Well, the red words sure do describe you. So you've only condemned yourself by your own posts.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Sheep who hear and obey what is heard, are those who follow Him, and inherit eternal life.

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Your statement does NOTHING to refute my full color coded explanation of BOTH verses.

But you can't do better than simply repeat yourself. You don't know how to defend your own views or refute the views of others.

The TRUTH always refutes LIES. Always.

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

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If you take this verse to mean "how to obtain eternal life and go to heaven", you couldn't be more wrong.

How about the context of John 5:24 which shows us the truth?

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The context? Do you really think that other verses changes the plain meaning of v.24?

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

How about some more full color coded explanation?

The red words identify possessors of eternal life.
The blue words indicate what believers possess in the present tense.
The green words indicate what has already occurred back WHEN they believed.
The purple words indicate what is guaranteed not to occur in the future.
The green words indicate why believers won't be judged.

Now, please proceed to address my full color explanation and prove that my points are incorrect, wrong, in error, etc.

Scripture reference with no scripture is how false teachers hid their heretical teachings.

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This is one of the most lame excuses for not addressing another poster there is.

If you only cited a reference and made a false point, I would EASILY quote the cited verse and prove that your point is false.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:24-29

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The plain and clear words of v.24 don't magically go away or change in meaning by anything else in the Bible.

LightLoveHope said:

Here we have a crux of a failure of understanding.
Paul talked of his rebellion in being a jew and persecuting the church was out of ignorance

Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.
1 Tim 1:13

The apostles talked about those who were no longer ignorant and who had faith but chose a different road, that they were guilty without a way out.

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Heb 6:4-6

Now to equate unbelievers with the devil, the beast and the false prophet is simply not biblical. If this was so no one could be saved, because the rebellion of the devil is complete and unredeemable.

So in ones theology either sinners born in sin can be saved because of their ignorance and unbelief, yet if they rebel in openness, they are truly lost or if they are like the devil, they can never be saved. It is why I cannot see babies or those born into sin without awareness or moral responsibility are either in heaven or in torment.
If one believes all are eternal, eternally in punishment or heaven, then one has a dilemma. Why? God makes us eternal because we have fellowship with Him, not eternal from being mortal because we are in rebellion. Equally the term second death, has the clue in the word, death. Death is not consciousness, or pain, or anything other than ceasing to be alive, or having bodily form.

So those who claim they are serious about eternity, yet cannot consider the obvious issues of justice and awareness, maybe Christ, His words and His intentions mean little as well. Only those with open hearts, where love dwells will see as Christ sees for in His light we know His truth, Amen.

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Sorry, but I really don't see any point in your post, so I cannot respond to any of it.

LightLoveHope said:

Are those saved who have the words and the promises yet can never live it, or those who live it because of the words and the promises?

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This very question reveals the very faulty thought process that has overcome you.

Those who are saved are those who have believed that Jesus saves them because He died for them. But you keep wanting to put lifestyle in the equation.

Lifestyle equals works, like it or not. We are not saved on the basis of works, but on the basis of grace. Do you understand the difference between grace and works? Then explain the difference.

LightLoveHope said:

A strange reality. If a believer says they know the Lord, yet cannot walk in the way of love, what are they? And how can those who do not know love, know how to judge others, either in love or with love?

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Aiming your posts at me without admitting so is hardly helpful. And my whole point has been about the pitfalls of EMOTIONS, which you have quite remarkably demonstrated.

Your comments insinuate that I "cannot walk in the way of love", yet you know nothing of me, other than the fact that I've called you out on your false doctrine. And that, btw, IS a demonstration of love. It's ALWAYS loving to try to help fellow believers to understand Scripture properly.

So it is strange how some claim to know Christ, yet on their declaration if one does not agree with their interpretation one is lost and following the enemy.

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It seems you really don't understand the problem of believing UNBIBLICAL ideas.

What did Jesus say,
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another
John 13:35

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When believers demonstrate love (sometimes tough love) to others, it does show that they follow Christ.

It has always been the love that shows His people, that gives hope and spreads life.

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No, it's not "love" that gives hope. Are you kidding? Biblical "hope" in the Greek means "confident expectation". Today, people use the word "hope" to mean "wishful thinking".

So the Greek is a huge difference from how it's used today.

And biblical hope is eternal security, something you don't believe in, even though Jesus taught it.

LightLoveHope said:

There is never a correct or false thought process, just our hearts, and our fellowship with the King.

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It is precisely these kind of comments that demonstrate how off track you are.

To say "there is never a correct or false thought process" is just nuts. And to put one's "heart" above truth is just as nuts. You're so emotionally tied up you can't see straight.

LightLoveHope said:

Gods seal? A seal is something that can always be broken but defines the authority by which it is given.

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This is more nonsense. Eph 1:13,14 isn't referring to some cheap object that we use to seal things. How silly.

Seals have always been a sign not a reality. Customs seal a container so if it is broken into it is known about. Food is sealed to stop it going off and guaranteeing its quality.

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This, again, demonstrates your total ignorance of what the Bible teaches.

Eph 1:13 tells us plainly Who the seal is: the Holy Spirit Himself. And you have the gall to claim seals are only a "sign, not a reality". That is delusional.

So when God seals us, if we break the seal, we are contaminated and lost.

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So, this is what you must conclude from your statement:
Human beings have the power/authority to "break the Holy Spirit", who IS our seal.

So, please explain this nutty idea about how any human being can "break the Holy Spirit". Oh, and, while you're at it, provide some clear verses that speak directly to this idea of yours.

So God putting a seal on us, could actually be taken to mean the opposite of what some want it to mean.

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First, God never put His seal "on us". He puts the Holy Spirit IN us. So, your ignorance is showing again.

EmSw said:

This seal is only for those who WORK for the food which ENDURES to eternal life.

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Hey, why don't you figure out Jesus' answer to the Jews question about WORK in John 6?

Jesus noted the crowd's interest in more literal food:
26 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill.
27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

So the crowd responded with this question:
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Note Jesus' answer:
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

They were focused on what God REQUIRES. Jesus told them plainly, "to believe in the One He has sent".

From other verses, we know that whoever believes in Him possesses eternal life: John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11, 13.

We also know that Jesus is the One who gives eternal life: John 10:28.

EmSw said:

What you miss is the work in verse 29 is the work of God; the work of man is in verse 27.

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Nope. Got it wrong again.

The "work" that God requires is to believe on His Son. That is perfectly clear.

We also know this from Jesus -

John 6
53 Jesus therefore said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves.
54 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me.
58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever.

What food should we work for? Do you have any idea? Only those who eat this food have eternal life. Only those who eat the flesh of Jesus live forever. Until you eat His flesh and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourself, and are not raised up at the last day.

This is how Jesus gives eternal life, and it's only to those who believe Him and do what He says.

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So, go ahead and just ignore John 5:24 and 6:47 where He plainly says that whoever believes POSSESSES (in the present tense) eternal life.

Jesus gives eternal life (John 10:28) on the basis of faith in Himself.

The passage you quoted is exactly about that. Eating and drinking here is the same as drinking in John 4. They are not literal, if you think so. They are metaphors for believing in Christ.

The same as John 10:9, about "entering through Me (the gate) and being saved".