2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[LightLoveHope]

What verses can you share that support your claim that His kingdom is founded on the love He gives us and the love that dwells within?

I am surprised you do not know this. This is not my claim, it is the declaration of scripture.
God is love. If love dwells within you, and you love, God dwells within you.
This is also a summary for love as expressed and planted through Jesus His son.

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1 John 4:8

No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1 John 4:12-13

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:16

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
1 John 4:20

But all the above language assumes people are not defended, who do not harbour sin and bitterness, unforgiveness and hurts within, and have opened up to let love flow. It is language of the repentant cleansed believer who has found emotional and spiritual purification within.

 

[JLB777]

So it seems that you and EmSw both reject Paul. Is that why you are not responding to what Paul said in Gal? Paul doesn't carry out The Lord Jesus Christ's teachings and was wrong?

Your logical fallacy, strawman, only shows you can’t answer a person’s simple question about a doctrine, without exposing your man made theology.



Here’s my question that you keep ignoring which in itself does the job of exposing your false doctrine.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Based on these words of the Lord Jesus -


Do you believe a person who is in Christ, then is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?



JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

Your logical fallacy, strawman, only shows you can’t answer a person’s simple question about a doctrine, without exposing your man made theology.



Here’s my question that you keep ignoring which in itself does the job of exposing your false doctrine.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Based on these words of the Lord Jesus -


Do you believe a person who is in Christ, then is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?



JLB

I believe Paul's explanation and thought's about what "removed from Christ' Is.

Seems you reject both Paul and The Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ says never perish. JLB rejects it.

Paul says 'removed from Him' And still calls them brothers. JLB rejects it.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I believe Paul's explanation and thought's about what "removed from Christ' Is.

Seems you reject both Paul and The Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ says never perish. JLB rejects it.

Paul says 'removed from Him' And still calls them brothers. JLB rejects it.

Do you believe in righteous walking?
Righteous walking is the desire to turn your heart to righteousness, to be cleansed, open hearted, to work through ones issues, and learn how to love others, and show it through deeds and words.

One may fail, but repentance, commitment, perseverance and patience, sowing to the Spirit will bear fruit. Like all projects it is not over night and its aim is to deliver us pure, righteous, true children of our King. Paul expressed it like this

Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Phil 2:14-16

Some argue this is earning salvation. Paul would say it is working out ones salvation with fear and trembling. We think of sin as just something that is innate with us, rather than sin destroys us and all we touch, but we can learn to walk in the ways of Christ.

It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;
that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable,
not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God;
and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you.
1 Thess 4:3-6

If we have to learn how to control our own bodies, it is not innate in becoming a believer.
If by learning we can live a way that is "Holy and honourable" then following the Lord is part of a lifestyle, that comes from our hearts and is reflected in our choices.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It seems every question I ask you seems to fall into your self proclaimed catagory of being “illegitimate”. LOL!!!

Laugh all you want. But I think it's telling you something.

When a person asks a question that exposes your man made theology, your canned response is “your question is illegitimate”.

Except NO ONE has yet "exposed my man made theology" for the simple and clear reason is that my theology isn't man made. It comes directly from the Lord Jesus Christ, which means you have rejected His theology.

Here’s my question that you keep ignoring which in itself does the job of exposing your false doctrine.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6

Based on these words of the Lord Jesus -

Do you believe a person who is in Christ, then is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?
JLB

You still haven't answered my question:

Have you quit beating your wife yet? yes or no will suffice.

Maybe I have just been giving you way more credit than is due. I have pointed out WHY your question is so illegitimate: the premise is unbiblical. Then I provide the same kind of question to you, to demonstrate what an illegitimate question looks like, which, of course, you always ignore.

So, why should I keep bothering to explain the facts to someone who is either:
1. too dense to grasp the facts
2 too uninterested in the facts
3 too interested in trying to make Jesus look like a LIAR?

Regardless of which answer is closest to the truth about you, it doesn't matter.

There is no point in trying to deal with an unreasonable person, which is what you are in your totality.

You have directly and deliberately rejected the very clear words of Jesus. I don't care why you have done this. But the truth is that you have done this.

That alone proves that you are unreasonable, and possibly, unstable. I feel very sorry for you and your pathetic ideas.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked:
"What verses can you share that support your claim that His kingdom is founded on the love He gives us and the love that dwells within?"

I am surprised you do not know this. This is not my claim, it is the declaration of scripture.

Every cult and false doctrine quotes Scripture. So what? I'm looking for verses that actually say what persons are claiming.

I'll give you an example. I claim that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

Jesus said: "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish."

So you see, that verse actually does say exactly what I claim. You have failed to do that.

God is love. If love dwells within you, and you love, God dwells within you.
This is also a summary for love as expressed and planted through Jesus His son.

That isn't what you had previously claimed. You spoke of the FOUNDATION of God's plan. While certainly God is love, that doesn't mean it's the foundation. It may be the walls, or the ceiling, perhaps.

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1 John 4:8

No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1 John 4:12-13

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:16

If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
1 John 4:20

Nope. None of these verses supports your earlier claim about love being the FOUNDATION of God's plan.

Of course God is love, and the cross comes from His love. But you still haven't supported your earlier claim.

But all the above language assumes people are not defended, who do not harbour sin and bitterness, unforgiveness and hurts within, and have opened up to let love flow.

What does "not defended" mean anyway? And what does "opened up to let love flow" mean?

It is language of the repentant cleansed believer who has found emotional and spiritual purification within.

And where does the Bible speak of this "emotional and spiriutal purification within"?

None of your flowery and feel-good words and phrases are found in Scripture. That's the problem. You need to focus on what the word of God actually says.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your logical fallacy, strawman, only shows you can’t answer a person’s simple question about a doctrine, without exposing your man made theology.

You can stop with the blasphemy, since Jesus Christ taught eternal security in John 10:28, and you have totally failed to refute.

By the way, have you stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no will suffice.

Why can't you answer this question? Either you have or you haven't stopped beating the poor woman.

And if you haven't stopped, you need to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe Paul's explanation and thought's about what "removed from Christ' Is.

Seems you reject both Paul and The Lord Jesus Christ.

These kind of people always reject whatever verses refutes their unbiblical ideas.

The Lord Jesus Christ says never perish. JLB rejects it.

Paul says 'removed from Him' And still calls them brothers. JLB rejects it.

Exhibit A.

 

[JLB777]

Laugh all you want. But I think it's telling you something.


Except NO ONE has yet "exposed my man made theology" for the simple and clear reason is that my theology isn't man made. It comes directly from the Lord Jesus Christ, which means you have rejected His theology.


You still haven't answered my question:

Have you quit beating your wife yet? yes or no will suffice.

Maybe I have just been giving you way more credit than is due. I have pointed out WHY your question is so illegitimate: the premise is unbiblical. Then I provide the same kind of question to you, to demonstrate what an illegitimate question looks like, which, of course, you always ignore.

So, why should I keep bothering to explain the facts to someone who is either:
1. too dense to grasp the facts
2 too uninterested in the facts
3 too interested in trying to make Jesus look like a LIAR?

Regardless of which answer is closest to the truth about you, it doesn't matter.

There is no point in trying to deal with an unreasonable person, which is what you are in your totality.

You have directly and deliberately rejected the very clear words of Jesus. I don't care why you have done this. But the truth is that you have done this.

That alone proves that you are unreasonable, and possibly, unstable. I feel very sorry for you and your pathetic ideas.

You can stop with the blasphemy, since Jesus Christ taught eternal security in John 10:28, and you have totally failed to refute.

By the way, have you stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no will suffice.

Why can't you answer this question? Either you have or you haven't stopped beating the poor woman.

And if you haven't stopped, you need to.

Still dodging the question. LOL!!!



Here’s my question that you keep ignoring which in itself does the job of exposing your false doctrine.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Based on these words of the Lord Jesus -


Do you believe a person who is in Christ, then is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Still dodging the question. LOL!!!

Still being very unreasonable. As usual.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? yes or no.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Do you believe in righteous walking?

I believe in walking by means of the Spirit.

New American Standard Bible
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh(the flesh is sinful and self-righteous).
Gal 5:16

And each day, I am more and more convinced that the vast,vast majority of believers walk in a pseudo/counterfeit righteousness by their own effort and have not a clue how to actually walk by means of the Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe in walking by means of the Spirit.

New American Standard Bible
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh(the flesh is sinful and self-righteous).
Gal 5:16

And each day, I am more and more convinced that the vast,vast majority of believers walk in a pseudo/counterfeit righteousness by their own effort and have not a clue how to actually walk by means of the Spirit.

Right. The evidence is seen every day. Sadly.

 

[LightLoveHope]

That isn't what you had previously claimed. You spoke of the FOUNDATION of God's plan. While certainly God is love, that doesn't mean it's the foundation. It may be the walls, or the ceiling, perhaps.

I am sorry.
What drove God to offer His son upon the cross? Was it ambition, power, grandiosity, authority, righteousness, justice, holiness? No it was love.
What is Gods driving aim in the whole of creation? Love. What are we born into and is our first emotion, love. Love of our parents, deserved or otherwise, we are bonded to them as our first instinct.

What is the greatest essense of all in the christian life, without which all else is meaningless? Love.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
1 Cor 13:1-3

And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Eph 3:17-19

We express a little love, sometimes, occasionally, when it is safe and to those we care most about. But God on the cross made a public display of His love, knowing He would be killed, hated, rejected and yet, a few would bow the knee, and see the King of Kings, who loved us so much to humble Himself to purchase us, the most lost and abject sinners, and bring us to His home and welcome us in.

This is who God is, the floor of all He does. And this is love that is just, righteous and true, love that will die for the sake of truth, will put everything in its proper place and compromise nothing. That is our Lord and King.

All I ask is that you open your heart to this King, and realise we are mere servants before Him, unworthy but willing to follow, if you begin to see the vastness of who He is and His love.
God bless you, Praise the Lord that His love and grace know no end.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am sorry.
What drove God to offer His son upon the cross? Was it ambition, power, grandiosity, authority, righteousness, justice, holiness? No it was love.

I am just as aware of John 3:16 as you are. Therefore, love was the basis of salvation of mankind. But that's not the foundation for God's plan.

What is Gods driving aim in the whole of creation? Love.

We actually are not told His "driving aim" regarding creation. But you like to make a lot of assumptions. But where are the verses that support your assumptions?

What are we born into and is our first emotion, love. Love of our parents, deserved or otherwise, we are bonded to them as our first instinct.

Proving nothing at all.

What is the greatest essense of all in the christian life, without which all else is meaningless? Love.

Still doesn't support your claim about the foundation of God's plan.

Probably you aren't even aware of WHY God created humanity. But the Bible has given several hints as to why.

Care to share your assumption?

 

[LightLoveHope]

I believe in walking by means of the Spirit.

New American Standard Bible
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh(the flesh is sinful and self-righteous).
Gal 5:16

And each day, I am more and more convinced that the vast,vast majority of believers walk in a pseudo/counterfeit righteousness by their own effort and have not a clue how to actually walk by means of the Spirit.

So no you do not believe in righteous walking.
You think there is such a thing as own effort righteousness.
So you invent a way of stopping acts of love, acts of helping, acts of service because of judgementalism instead of just trusting God who is working through you, to lead you in the way.

And your fear is "self righteousness". But the issue is you do not see God well enough, so you think anything you do could be self righteous. If you saw the cross, and Jesus dying, knew the cost and how feeble and guilty we all are, self righteousness is your last thought, rather a desire to serve such a great King and bring your sacrifice of praise to His altar.

A contributor accused me of boasting by sharing what Christ has done in my heart. But I was sharing with the aim of encouraging others to reach out in faith and claim healing and forgiveness through difficult situations. And that is what we are called to do, share examples of victory to spur each other along to greater things.

The enemy will always whisper, liar, fraud, exaggerator, it cannot be true.
It is amazing how little faith people really have in Christ, that when victory is proclaimed, it is denounced so quickly. But of course, if the pain of trying again, after so many failures, may be too much to bare. But we are called to have faith in Jesus and His work, because of the cross we know it is true and possible. So I just say, trust God and put your faith into action, Amen.

Dear Lord, please give us the courage to take forward your word and apply it to our hearts to open them up, to heal the hurts and let love carry us forward into your Kingdom, In the name of Jesus, Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I am just as aware of John 3:16 as you are. Therefore, love was the basis of salvation of mankind. But that's not the foundation for God's plan.

We actually are not told His "driving aim" regarding creation. But you like to make a lot of assumptions. But where are the verses that support your assumptions?

Proving nothing at all.

Still doesn't support your claim about the foundation of God's plan.

Probably you aren't even aware of WHY God created humanity. But the Bible has given several hints as to why.

Care to share your assumption?

Free, If the cross does not break your heart, and overwhelm you, there is nothing I can say.

This is the difference between having an open heart and not. It is not an knowledge exercise
or exam, or verses proving one thing or another. It makes me wonder if you have ever loved someone?

As a young man I used to wonder what it would mean to fall in love. Then I did. That was hard to take, because it rocked me to my core. And Jesus means more to me that this.

The point I am trying to make, is everyone can only express their experience, and what it means to them. Mary washed Jesus's feet with her tears, and dried them with her hair.

And you are right, what I am saying about love and God is driven by my experience of Him and His work in my life. And from a factual basis it does not matter if I am wrong, because God is love, to love is involved in everything. It is one strand, but this strand is also infinite, without end.

So this is my song of praise to the King. Thank you Lord for your love, and for how you reveal to us, mere mortals your vastness, and love, and how you break all our assumptions or ways of constraining you in our minds. Thank you Jesus.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I am confused. I have one believer saying they are loving me unconditionally and with forgiveness, as their key life attitude and another saying love is not the foundation of God, our approach or the gospel.

It seems there is a confusion here. Emotional defences will always close love down to protect the hurts of the heart, to whisper betrayal, its a trap, you will be deceived and hurt, this person if just aiming to lead you into being vulnerable and be able to be exploited.

One rather aggressive individual used the worst analogies whenever love came up. There expressions were the most provocative, and their analogies linked this vulnerability to some of the worst leadership abuses that happen. But this is why our loyalty is to Jesus and we listen to Him, and set boundaries on what can and cannot be done, and stick with our obligations as to the Lord.

It is why Jesus is our teacher, and righteousness is the way.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Is the cross the greatest act in all eternity? Yes.

In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Rev 5:12-13

There is no greater act that could have ever been done than this.
It is not a side show, to deal with a minor issue, it defines and expresses the very nature of God Himself.

Believers often think the cross is just the means of entry into the Kingdom, the way of salvation to bring us safely into heaven. No the cross echoes everything about God, and how He rules.

With openness, service and sacrifice. His Kingdom is founded upon His heart and His ways.
And we are called to follow His example. And this is example is eternal, like His words.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Free, If the cross does not break your heart, and overwhelm you, there is nothing I can say.

Why do you ask such silly questions? Of course the work of Christ on the cross breaks my heart, because I, along with you, and everyone else, sent Him there.

This is the difference between having an open heart and not. It is not an knowledge exercise
or exam, or verses proving one thing or another. It makes me wonder if you have ever loved someone?

What motivates you to move to the extreme on everything? Is it your subjectivity?

Of course I have loved someone. Many, in fact. Why in the world can't you see beyond your own nose and realize that just because I don't share your emotional subjectivity, that I'm totally unfeeling?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am confused. I have one believer saying they are loving me unconditionally and with forgiveness, as their key life attitude and another saying love is not the foundation of God, our approach or the gospel.

No, what I did was ask you for Scripture that supported your claim that the foundation for God's plan (that includes everything; creation of angels, universe, humanity, etc) was love. And you failed to do that.

I did point out that the basis for the cross IS love. John 3:16 says so.

It seems there is a confusion here.

It appears to me that there is a whole lot of confusion on your part.

Emotional defences will always close love down to protect the hurts of the heart, to whisper betrayal, its a trap, you will be deceived and hurt, this person if just aiming to lead you into being vulnerable and be able to be exploited.

Are you actually accusing me of having "emotional defenses"? lol. Hilarious.

One rather aggressive individual used the worst analogies whenever love came up.

OK, here we go again, with some more of the silly people you've met in your life. None of which is relevant to our discussion.

It is why Jesus is our teacher, and righteousness is the way.

He sure is. Which is why I highly recommend that you believe ALL that He said.

Such as; recipients (that's all of them, since He didn't specific less than everyone) of eternal life shall never perish.