2 questions about end times

[Hazelelponi]

1st question... Will the 3rd Temple be re-built before, or after, the rapture?

2nd question... why doesn't Israel just go ahead and mow down the dome of the rock and get on with rebuilding already? Are they that scared of the surrounding muslim nations? One would think from their victories over larger armies in the past it would produce more confidence in pursuing their destiny, no?

Thanks

Never.

The third Temple is already being built, and not with human hands.

 

[Tigger Boy]

1st question... Will the 3rd Temple be re-built before, or after, the rapture?

2nd question... why doesn't Israel just go ahead and mow down the dome of the rock and get on with rebuilding already? Are they that scared of the surrounding muslim nations? One would think from their victories over larger armies in the past it would produce more confidence in pursuing their destiny, no?

Thanks

Joseph, You like so many are standing at the wrong bus stop. Meaning your focus is unwarranted. God ended His relationship with the Nation of Israel at the end of the 70 weeks of Dan. 9, because Israel failed to repent of their disobedience, and except Christ as the Son of God. Therefore, Christ redefined who the heirs of Abraham would be, too inherit the promise made to him. See; (Gal. 3:28; Rm. 2: 28,29: 3:21-25)

For more insights click of the magnifying glass at the right end of the blue bar at top of this pg., and type in, "Israel Has No Place In Closing Events."

 

[Joseph G]

Joseph, You like so many are standing at the wrong bus stop. Meaning your focus is unwarranted. God ended His relationship with the Nation of Israel at the end of the 70 weeks of Dan. 9, because Israel failed to repent of their disobedience, and except Christ as the Son of God. Therefore, Christ redefined who the heirs of Abraham would be, too inherit the promise made to him. See; (Gal. 3:28; Rm. 2: 28,29: 3:21-25)

For more insights click of the magnifying glass at the right end of the blue bar at top of this pg., and type in, "Israel Has No Place In Closing Events."

Key passages from Romans 11 NIV

v. 5 "So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace."

v. 7 "What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened,"

v. 11 "Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious."

v. 23 "And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!"

Repeat: "... graft them in again."

And the slam dunk...

v. 28-42 " As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

The entire chapter:

Romans 11
New International Version​

The Remnant of Israel​

11 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[c]
9 And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”[d]

Ingrafted Branches​

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Israel Will Be Saved​

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Doxology​

33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and[i] knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”[j]
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”[k]
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen."

 

[ViaCrucis]

1st question... Will the 3rd Temple be re-built before, or after, the rapture?

What makes you think there will be a 3rd temple at all?

As it relates to "the rapture" if a new temple were built in Jerusalem it would have to be before Christ's glorious return and the resurrection of the dead. Because after the Lord returns, that's it, curtains closed. New heavens and new earth forever and ever.

2nd question... why doesn't Israel just go ahead and mow down the dome of the rock and get on with rebuilding already? Are they that scared of the surrounding muslim nations? One would think from their victories over larger armies in the past it would produce more confidence in pursuing their destiny, no?

Thanks

The majority of religious Jews have no desire to rebuild a temple because either they believe the temple won't be rebuilt until the messiah comes, or because they don't believe the temple is necessary anymore. Secular, non-religious Jews have no interest in rebuilding a temple because, well, they're non-religious.

Destroying the Dome of the Rock and other buildings on the old Temple Mount would be a politically idiotic thing to do. What motivation would the Israeli government have in doing that? Just to be evil, cruel, and provocative toward its Muslim population? As evil and cruel as the Israeli government frequently is, it's hard to imagine it going to those kinds of extreme lengths just to be provocative.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Timtofly]

1st question... Will the 3rd Temple be re-built before, or after, the rapture?

2nd question... why doesn't Israel just go ahead and mow down the dome of the rock and get on with rebuilding already? Are they that scared of the surrounding muslim nations? One would think from their victories over larger armies in the past it would produce more confidence in pursuing their destiny, no?

Thanks

At the Second Coming, Jesus will set up His own Temple and throne.

Anything built on that spot will be destroyed at the Second Coming, so a future temple cannot be built by man prior to the Second Coming, as it would be destroyed anyways.

Why create unnecessary death? Now we are not told what triggers all nations gathering at Jerusalem, although the list of grievances against Israel seems to get bigger, day after day. Zechariah 14:1-4

"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Just prior to the actual return of Jesus to the Mount of Olives, will be the point of all nations coming and fighting over Jerusalem. That is when the rapture happens, as Jesus is returning to the Mount of Olives.

God gathers the nations against Israel, and then Jesus shows up and ends the conflict, and sets up His own throne, and Temple.

Matthew 25:31-32 is the follow up by Jesus:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations."

 

[tailgator]

1st question... Will the 3rd Temple be re-built before, or after, the rapture?

2nd question... why doesn't Israel just go ahead and mow down the dome of the rock and get on with rebuilding already? Are they that scared of the surrounding muslim nations? One would think from their victories over larger armies in the past it would produce more confidence in pursuing their destiny, no?

Thanks

There is already a temple on the temple Mt.

But if your expecting God to abandon the temple which is the body of Christ ,so that he could live in a manmade stone temple on the temple Mt,I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Joseph G]

There is already a temple on the temple Mt.

But if your expecting God to abandon the temple which is the body of Christ ,so that he could live in a manmade stone temple on the temple Mt,I wouldn't count on it.

What in the world made you infer that? Like all genuine believers, I'm sealed with His Holy Spirit, as I presume you are, as is the entire Body of Christ. Kinda outta left field there, bub.

 

[tailgator]

What in the world made you infer that? Like all genuine believers, I'm sealed with His Holy Spirit, as I presume you are, as is the entire Body of Christ. Kinda outta left field there, bub.

Because Paul didn't refer to a man made structure on the temple Mt as the temple of God.Throughout Paul's Epistles,he makes it clear the body is the temple of God.Either individually or the church as a whole.
If someone were to build a building such as the dome of the rock,it would not be the temple of God.God already has a temple.

Now I've got a question for you.
What if the man of sin is amongst the church(body of Christ) showing himself as he is God?
Or pointing forth that he is the savior of Israel?

There is a man doing that at this present time.A man who says only he can save Israel and keep Israel safe.

 

[Apple Sky]

There is a man doing that at this present time.A man who says only he can save Israel and keep Israel safe.

There is nothing to stop the Anti-Christ from building a third temple for him to reside in.

King James Bible
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There is no such thing as a pre-rapture, The rapture will happen on the final day.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Apple Sky]

'

 

[Joseph G]

Because Paul didn't refer to a man made structure on the temple Mt as the temple of God.

[scratching head]

Ok... and again, why would you presume I thought otherwise? What nominal student of Scripture doesn't know this?

Throughout Paul's Epistles,he makes it clear the body is the temple of God.Either individually or the church as a whole.

Er, this is word for word exactly what I said. Maybe re-read, a little slower this time? What do you think "sealed by the Holy Spirit" could otherwise possibly mean? The word "seal", ya know?

If someone were to build a building such as the dome of the rock,it would not be the temple of God.God already has a temple.

Exactly why personally I would love to see it razed to the ground merely as a symbolic statement, nothing more.

Now I've got a question for you.
What if the man of sin is amongst the church(body of Christ) showing himself as he is God?

It is not possible for him to deceive the elect. God exposes all wolves in sheep's clothing, even the Anti-Christ. The only ones fooled are the permanently lost. Would it be helpful for me to provide Scriptural support?

Or pointing forth that he is the savior of Israel?

Then the disbelieving Jews might be fooled, huh?

There is a man doing that at this present time.A man who says only he can save Israel and keep Israel safe.

Which if he is not just one of many anti-christs, but The Anti-Christ, he will expand to saying he'll save the world, too, eh?

See how copacetic we are? Let me know if I can clear up any more confusion on your part.

Gee... just asked a question, bra.

 

[Lost4words]

3rd Temple was/is Our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[tailgator]

There is nothing to stop the Anti-Christ from building a third temple for him to reside in.

King James Bible
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There is no such thing as a pre-rapture, The rapture will happen on the final day.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I didn't say anything about a pre rapture.
And the man of sin does not build a temple.
He simply moves his embassy to Jerusalem as he acknowledge Jerusalem is Israels capital city.

 

[tailgator]

[scratching head]

Ok... and again, why would you presume I thought otherwise? What nominal student of Scripture doesn't know this?


Er, this is word for word exactly what I said. Maybe re-read, a little slower this time? What do you think "sealed by the Holy Spirit" could otherwise possibly mean? The word "seal", ya know?


Exactly why personally I would love to see it razed to the ground merely as a symbolic statement, nothing more.


It is not possible for him to deceive the elect. God exposes all wolves in sheep's clothing, even the Anti-Christ. The only ones fooled are the permanently lost. Would it be helpful for me to provide Scriptural support?


Then the disbelieving Jews might be fooled, huh?

Which if he is not just one of many anti-christs, but The Anti-Christ, he will expand to saying he'll save the world, too, eh?

See how copacetic we are? Let me know if I can clear up any more confusion on your part.

Gee... just asked a question, bra.

The man of sin gives Israel an army to keep Israel safe.He will cause them to rule over many and he will divide the land.
He also moves his embassy to Jerusalem.

After his army in israel and Israel are overcome by their enemies,his armed forces use the abomination that causes desolation and destroys all the nations which attacked his country and Israel as he would be expected to.

It's not about the world.Its about the Israeli government and the man of sin.The beast and the false prophet.

 

[Jipsah]

1st question... Will the 3rd Temple be re-built before, or after, the rapture?

Never.

2nd question... why doesn't Israel just go ahead and mow down the dome of the rock and get on with rebuilding already?

Because they aren't particularly interested in building a temple.

 

[Marilyn C]

1st question... Will the 3rd Temple be re-built before, or after, the rapture?

2nd question... why doesn't Israel just go ahead and mow down the dome of the rock and get on with rebuilding already? Are they that scared of the surrounding muslim nations? One would think from their victories over larger armies in the past it would produce more confidence in pursuing their destiny, no?

Thanks

Hi Joseph,

The Third Temple on the site where Solomon`s was will be built in the millennium as God`s word says. (Ez. 40 - 48)

The temple that the A/C desecrates is already here.

The Third Temple - Where?

To be categorically exact regarding Israel's function as the "Catalyst for the Countdown", one

further event was specified as a prerequisite. This was the temple with its inner sanctum, The

Holy Place"; according to the signs predicted by Jesus (Matt 24:15) and Paul (2 Thess 2:4).

Many commentators have relegated this to the obscure future, because they consider the

temple has to be constructed on Mount Moriah, the site of Herod's temple. The

insurmountable object of course, is that the Dome of the Rock, the second most holy place of

Islam, already occupies that position.



This is an entirely false premise, however, that has created confusion. The Temple built by

Solomon, the Temple frequented by Jesus and His Disciples were both built on Mount Moriah.

Ezekiel predicts that another will be constructed on the same place after Jesus returns in Glory.

Every reference to all three Temples on this site was a translation of the Greek Word "Hieron".

Any "Temple" erected elsewhere was invariably from the Greek word "Naos". This word is

frequently rendered "Meeting Place", "Dwelling" or "Synagogue". It is the later word "Naos"

that is used by Paul (2 Thess 2:4) in reference to the Temple used by contemporary Israel. It has

absolutely no connection exegetically with the site on Mt. Moriah. In fact there is no

prerequisite for it to be built there. To the contrary, in line with Greek usage, it must be

constructed elsewhere.



The Embassy of Israel advises that on August 1982, in the Presence of the Prime Minister,

Menachem Begin, Members of Cabinet and many other notables, the Jerusalem great

Synagogue was dedicated. It is situated in King George Street, and is constructed from the

same local stone as was Solomon's Temple. The central feature is a high tower containing five

magnificent stained-glass windows, topped by two tablets of stone, bearing the Ten

Commandments.



The Temple referred to by Paul is built!



In the interior, marble has been used extensively, especially for the Ark situated beneath the

stained-glass windows. This I believe is the Holy Place which will be desecrated by the

"Abomination of Desolation" referred to by Jesus (Matthew 24:15)



The countdown is well on the way.

 

[Joseph G]

The man of sin gives Israel an army to keep Israel safe.He will cause them to rule over many and he will divide the land.
He also moves his embassy to Jerusalem.

After his army in israel and Israel are overcome by their enemies,his armed forces use the abomination that causes desolation and destroys all the nations which attacked his country and Israel as he would be expected to.

It's not about the world.Its about the Israeli government and the man of sin.The beast and the false prophet.

Okey doke. Carry on!

 

[tailgator]

Okey doke. Carry on!

You see,not only did Jesus reference Daniels end time prophecy in Mathew 24.Paul also referenced Daniels prophecy in 2 these 2:4.

2 Thes 2:4
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Daniel 11:36
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.


Everything I told you the man of sin does,is right there in Daniels end times prophecy.But like you said.He will not be able to decieve the elect in Israel.


Daniel 11:32
With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.



Okey dokey.Carry on!

 

[Joseph G]

Hi Joseph,

The Third Temple on the site where Solomon`s was will be built in the millennium as God`s word says. (Ez. 40 - 48)

The temple that the A/C desecrates is already here.

View attachment 355542

View attachment 355543

The Third Temple - Where?

To be categorically exact regarding Israel's function as the "Catalyst for the Countdown", one

further event was specified as a prerequisite. This was the temple with its inner sanctum, The

Holy Place"; according to the signs predicted by Jesus (Matt 24:15) and Paul (2 Thess 2:4).

Many commentators have relegated this to the obscure future, because they consider the

temple has to be constructed on Mount Moriah, the site of Herod's temple. The

insurmountable object of course, is that the Dome of the Rock, the second most holy place of

Islam, already occupies that position.



This is an entirely false premise, however, that has created confusion. The Temple built by

Solomon, the Temple frequented by Jesus and His Disciples were both built on Mount Moriah.

Ezekiel predicts that another will be constructed on the same place after Jesus returns in Glory.

Every reference to all three Temples on this site was a translation of the Greek Word "Hieron".

Any "Temple" erected elsewhere was invariably from the Greek word "Naos". This word is

frequently rendered "Meeting Place", "Dwelling" or "Synagogue". It is the later word "Naos"

that is used by Paul (2 Thess 2:4) in reference to the Temple used by contemporary Israel. It has

absolutely no connection exegetically with the site on Mt. Moriah. In fact there is no

prerequisite for it to be built there. To the contrary, in line with Greek usage, it must be

constructed elsewhere.



The Embassy of Israel advises that on August 1982, in the Presence of the Prime Minister,

Menachem Begin, Members of Cabinet and many other notables, the Jerusalem great

Synagogue was dedicated. It is situated in King George Street, and is constructed from the

same local stone as was Solomon's Temple. The central feature is a high tower containing five

magnificent stained-glass windows, topped by two tablets of stone, bearing the Ten

Commandments.



The Temple referred to by Paul is built!



In the interior, marble has been used extensively, especially for the Ark situated beneath the

stained-glass windows. This I believe is the Holy Place which will be desecrated by the

"Abomination of Desolation" referred to by Jesus (Matthew 24:15)



The countdown is well on the way.

Marilyn, hi! Now somebody's cooking with eggs!

Interestingly, a dear friend just bought for me a pretty exhaustive study Bible, and I had just earlier this week dedicated myself to reading Ezekiel from beginning to end including notes and cross-references. This is my first serious foray into a prophetic book. Currently I'm about to begin Chapter 8.

After reading your post, I did a careful reading of the introduction to get a handle on present/future references. Gonna take some work I confess to digest, ha!

So... to Chapters 40-48.

Wow, major bone of contention between Bible scholars, huh? Just briefly, the notes introducing this section indicate 4 different historical views, the final being what it calls "The Spiritual View".

Here's the first paragraph:

"The vision symbolically represents God's good plan for His people, especially after Christ's incarnation, when His glory shall dwell within His people as His living temple by the life-giving work of the Holy Spirit (37:14, 27-28; Eph. 2:18-22)."

It then offers 5 proofs to support the view. It's too much for me to one-finger type, so I'm gonna do some research to see if they are to be found online somewhere. I hope to be back with them soon.

I think the arguments are pretty compelling for this view so worth the effort to get yours and others input. According to the notes, this is the view the Reformers were most in line with. Sound correct?

To backtrack a bit, then, here's the first 3 views as well. I'm very curious where everyone's point of reference comes from, so would ask if your views find any of these as your source or some other combination thereof? And pointedly, what you think the danger is in adopting any other view?

"1. The historical-literal view: the vision relates to the times immediately prior to the captivity and focuses on Solomon's temple.

2. The ideal or conditional view: the vision outlines what should have been after the return from captivity, but because of the disobedience of the people it was never realized.

3. The Jewish view: the description given in this vision was followed by the returning captives as far as circumstances allowed them, and Herod copied the same pattern when he renovated and enlarged the temple."

Appreciate yours and everyone's responses thus far. I'm here to learn!

Blessings to all!

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, hi! Now somebody's cooking with eggs!



To backtrack a bit, then, here's the first 3 views as well. I'm very curious where everyone's point of reference comes from, so would ask if your views find any of these as your source or some other combination thereof? And pointedly, what you think the danger is in adopting any other view?

"1. The historical-literal view: the vision relates to the times immediately prior to the captivity and focuses on Solomon's temple.

2. The ideal or conditional view: the vision outlines what should have been after the return from captivity, but because of the disobedience of the people it was never realized.

3. The Jewish view: the description given in this vision was followed by the returning captives as far as circumstances allowed them, and Herod copied the same pattern when he renovated and enlarged the temple."

Appreciate yours and everyone's responses thus far. I'm here to learn!

Blessings to all!

Hi Joseph,

I believe Ez. 40 - 48 refers to the third Temple that Israel will build according to this pattern laid out, in the millennium. The Lord`s throne (authority) is there by the Holy Spirit. However, His seat of power and authority is in the third heaven. (Rev. 4: 2)

`"Son of man, this is the place of My throne (authority) and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel defile My holy name, nor their kings, by their harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places...` (Ez. 43: 7)

This Temple is on earth with a human king/Prince who has sons.

`Thus says the Lord God: "If the prince gives a gift of some of his inheritance to any of his sons; it is their possession by inheritance.` (Ez. 46: 16)