2 Peter 3:8, Lireral Or Symbolic?

[Truth7t7]

Many find it hard to believe the use of "One Thousand" could be symbolic, as I believe this teaching is to show us, "No Earthly Time" in the Lords spiritual realm?

These same words "One Thousand" are used in Revelation 20:1-6, is this the Lords spiritual realm?

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

Seems 100% the Lords spiritual realm to me?

1. A literal 1000 years?
2. A literal day?
3. Symbolic for no time in the Lords spiritual?

2 Peter 3:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[mukk_in]

Many find it hard to believe the use of "One Thousand" could be symbolic, as I believe this teaching is to show us, "No Earthly Time" in the Lords spiritual realm?

This same word "Thousand" is used in Revelation 20:1-6, is this the Lords spiritual realm?

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

Seems 100% the Lords spiritual real to me?

2 Peter 3:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Quite possible. "1000" is probably a round figure indicating the fullness of time and could be billions of years or just exactly 1000. We just have to be ready for His return. Peace in Christ .

 

[dysert]

It's a simile. Almost by definition, it conveys the idea that God's time is not our time. Peter could have used "a million years" instead of "a thousand" and you'd get the same idea. It's symbolic.

 

[Dave-W]

It can properly be taken either way; as it is a poetic way of saying that our time frame and God's are completely independent of each other.

 

[Galaxy Hunter]

Quite possible. "1000" is probably a round figure indicating the fullness of time and could be billions of years or just exactly 1000. We just have to be ready for His return. Peace in Christ .

Good point. I've wondered that about the first part of Genesis with the word "day". Is it not to be taken as a literal 24 hour day? Could it be millions or billions of years?

 

[SkyWriting]

Many find it hard to believe the use of "One Thousand" could be symbolic, as I believe this teaching is to show us, "No Earthly Time" in the Lords spiritual realm?

These same words "One Thousand" are used in Revelation 20:1-6, is this the Lords spiritual realm?

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

Seems 100% the Lords spiritual realm to me?

1. A literal 1000 years?
2. A literal day?
3. Symbolic for no time in the Lords spiritual?

2 Peter 3:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

God is spirit and the Bible is symbolic cover to cover.
How much of what you read becomes visible in the
material world is totally in Gods hands. When Jesus
saved or "healed" all of man he also left a scattering
of literal healings where He saw fit. Have no concern
for what is visible and what is not. God is always speaking
to the Spirit and is not a "car mechanic", so to speak.

 

[Postvieww]

Many find it hard to believe the use of "One Thousand" could be symbolic, as I believe this teaching is to show us, "No Earthly Time" in the Lords spiritual realm?

These same words "One Thousand" are used in Revelation 20:1-6, is this the Lords spiritual realm?

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

Seems 100% the Lords spiritual realm to me?

Vs 1 “come down FROM heaven” Maybe not spiritual realm?

Vs 3 “ that he should not deceive the nations” Earthly realm for sure.

Vs 8 “which are in the four quarters of the earth” Earthly realm for sure.

Vs 9 “breath of the earth” Earthly realm for sure.

1. A literal 1000 years?
2. A literal day?
3. Symbolic for no time in the Lords spiritual?

2 Peter 3:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:8 is symbolic but it is not a proof text for any other time frame mentioned in scripture.

Acts 1:33 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Are we allowed to read this passage as 40,000 years? No, we have no justification for doing so.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

What is the justification for reading this passage as an indeterminate time frame? What is in the context of this verse that makes it impossible to read it as literal? I see nothing other than the need to support a theory. “A little season” is an unspecified length of time 1000 years is not.


Why would John use clear language for “a little season” and expect us to refer to 2 Peter to interpret 1000 years? Not consistent IMHO

 

[Postvieww]

Good point. I've wondered that about the first part of Genesis with the word "day". Is it not to be taken as a literal 24 hour day? Could it be millions or billions of years?

A day could not be billions of years. Genesis 1 repeatedly defines a day as “the evening and the morning”.


If you would like to insert a billion years between verse 1 and 2 go for it.

 

[DavidPT]

Many find it hard to believe the use of "One Thousand" could be symbolic, as I believe this teaching is to show us, "No Earthly Time" in the Lords spiritual realm?

These same words "One Thousand" are used in Revelation 20:1-6, is this the Lords spiritual realm?

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

Seems 100% the Lords spiritual realm to me?

1. A literal 1000 years?
2. A literal day?
3. Symbolic for no time in the Lords spiritual?

2 Peter 3:8King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Before the thousand years----

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

where the beast and the false prophet are


During the thousand years----


and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled


and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

This is the first resurrection

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years


After the thousand years----

and after that he must be loosed a little season

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever



Based on the above, it sure looks like the thousand years are meant to be taken literal to me. But if not, how does one explain that the souls John sees in Revelation 20:4, that they all, meaning every single one of them, initially experienced physical death before the thousand years even begins?

 

[DavidPT]

Good point. I've wondered that about the first part of Genesis with the word "day". Is it not to be taken as a literal 24 hour day? Could it be millions or billions of years?

No it couldn't. Because if it did how could one then explain how Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born? Adam is the one created from the dust of the earth. 130 years later Seth is born. That doesn't mathematically work out unless the days in Genesis 1 are based on 24 hour days.

 

[DavidPT]

These same words "One Thousand" are used in Revelation 20:1-6, is this the Lords spiritual realm?

Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

Seems 100% the Lords spiritual realm to me?

Let's run with that then. Let's focus our attention on The Dead, in this case.

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

All of the following has to apply to The Dead while they are still dead, that assuming your position on this.

The Dead while they are still physically dead---and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The Dead while they are still physically dead---Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Now explain how the dead while they are still physically dead, shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years?

But if you can't, what point are you trying to make then?

 

[keras]

2 Peter 3:8 and Psalms 90:4 both say that in God's sight; a thousand years is as one day.

Why should we not take that statement literally?
As we are now nearly 2000 years since Jesus came and He said that there would be 2 'days' and then He would receive His reward, Luke 13:32 and Hosea 6:2, then we can see that statement as an exact formula.
Take note that there was exactly 2000 years from Jesus to Abraham and exactly 2000 years from Abraham to Adam. This fits with the 7 'days' of Creation and with the 6000 years of God's decreed time for human rule on earth, then the 1000 year Millennium rule of Jesus.

 

[Truth7t7]

A day could not be billions of years. Genesis 1 repeatedly defines a day as “the evening and the morning”.


If you would like to insert a billion years between verse 1 and 2 go for it.

You don't want to add to God's words, that comes with a big penalty. Revelation 22:18-19

 

[Truth7t7]

2 Peter 3:8 and Psalms 90:4 both say that in God's sight; a thousand years is as one day.

Why should we not take that statement literally?
As we are now nearly 2000 years since Jesus came and He said that there would be 2 'days' and then He would receive His reward, Luke 31:32 and Hosea 6:2, then we can see that statement as an exact formula.
Take note that there was exactly 2000 years from Jesus to Abraham and exactly 2000 years from Abraham to Adam. This fits with the 7 'days' of Creation and with the 6000 years of God's decreed time for human rule on earth, then the 1000 year Millennium rule of Jesus.

Jesus Won't be found on this physical earth ruling, he warned the church against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27

"Believe It Not"!

 

[Truth7t7]

Let's run with that then. Let's focus our attention on The Dead, in this case.

and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jenon-literar the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

All of the following has to apply to The Dead while they are still dead, that assuming your position on this.

The Dead while they are still physically dead---and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The Dead while they are still physically dead---Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Now explain how the dead while they are still physically dead, shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years?

But if you can't, what point are you trying to make then?

The tribulation saints are seen in Revelation 6:10-11, they are given white robes in the presence of God & the Lamb, and told to rest for "A Little Season", while the tribulation "continues" to take place, this is not a future 1000 year kingdom on earth.

Dave God's word explains "Very Clear" where these Tribulation saints are, and the time frame surrounds the tribulation in the "Little Season", this same "Little Season" is seen in Revelation 20:3, as Satan is loosed "During The Tribulation"!

If a tribulation saint dies "one week" before the second advent he enters the eternal realm of a day is a thousand years.

Believers currently rule as kings, as this was made possible by the shed blood of Jesus, as clearly taught in Revelation 1:5-6

Possibly its your obsession with "Literal"?

Literal chains and locks on satan?

Jesus rules with a literal iron sceptre?

Jesus fights in a battle, with a literal sword?

 

[Galaxy Hunter]

2 Peter 3:8 and Psalms 90:4 both say that in God's sight; a thousand years is as one day.

Why should we not take that statement literally?
As we are now nearly 2000 years since Jesus came and He said that there would be 2 'days' and then He would receive His reward, Luke 31:32 and Hosea 6:2, then we can see that statement as an exact formula.
Take note that there was exactly 2000 years from Jesus to Abraham and exactly 2000 years from Abraham to Adam. This fits with the 7 'days' of Creation and with the 6000 years of God's decreed time for human rule on earth, then the 1000 year Millennium rule of Jesus.

This is certainly something to think about!

 

[Galaxy Hunter]

No it couldn't. Because if it did how could one then explain how Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born? Adam is the one created from the dust of the earth. 130 years later Seth is born. That doesn't mathematically work out unless the days in Genesis 1 are based on 24 hour days.

Good point but I was wondering if the word "day" was intended to be flexible. In other words, could it mean different times, like the word "time" to us doesn't tell us how much time. Of course that would mean that "morning" and "evening" weren't literal so I might be stretching my imagination too much. If the "day" was flexible it would line up with science better because the order of creation would fit....Heaven (Universe)..Earth...water...plants....animals...humans..(the light in verse 3 came when dust from the bombardment happened) Don't take it too seriousely, just a thought. Imagine though, a scientist thousands of years ago picking the order of creation as well as the Bible does. He'd be pretty famous. Yet science give the Bible no credit.

 

[Galaxy Hunter]

I'm sorry. I meant to say the dust from the bombardment "cleared" not "happened"..still haven't figured out how to edit.
Also, keras, in post #12 you mentioned Luke 31:32. Since Luke only has 24 chapters is that a misprint?

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Before the thousand years----

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

where the beast and the false prophet are


During the thousand years----


and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled


and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

This is the first resurrection

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years


After the thousand years----

and after that he must be loosed a little season

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever



Based on the above, it sure looks like the thousand years are meant to be taken literal to me. But if not, how does one explain that the souls John sees in Revelation 20:4, that they all, meaning every single one of them, initially experienced physical death before the thousand years even begins?

Your tribulation saints seen in Revelation 20:4 are also seen in Revelation 6:10-11, they are given white robes in the Lord's eternal realm, and are waiting for the tribulation to end.

A far cry from a literal 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans running around.

 

[DavidPT]

Good point but I was wondering if the word "day" was intended to be flexible. In other words, could it mean different times, like the word "time" to us doesn't tell us how much time. Of course that would mean that "morning" and "evening" weren't literal so I might be stretching my imagination too much. If the "day" was flexible it would line up with science better because the order of creation would fit....Heaven (Universe)..Earth...water...plants....animals...humans..(the light in verse 3 came when dust from the bombardment happened) Don't take it too seriousely, just a thought. Imagine though, a scientist thousands of years ago picking the order of creation as well as the Bible does. He'd be pretty famous. Yet science give the Bible no credit.

Of course 'day' can be flexible and not be meaning a literal 24 hour period every time. A lot of times 'day' is not meant to be taken literally. But in the case of creation days though, if literal days are not meant, how then was it determined that Adam had lived 130 years when Seth was born? Keeping in mind that Adam was created on the 6th day.