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But Peter leaves us in no doubt.
Yet there are biblical statements that also make it possible that it's referring to the fire coming down from heaven at the close of a literal millennium.
2 Peter 3What scriptures reference that because I am unfamiliar with those passages?
Quite evidently more important than yours. I don't keep on reading things into the text that are not in the text.How important is corroboration in your approach to understanding Scripture, especially Revelation?
Quite evidently more important than yours. I don't keep on reading things into the text that are not in the text.
Like the resurrection in Christ of the dead who were never in Christ, never in the Ark.
Quite evidently more important than yours. I don't keep on reading things into the text that are not in the text.
Like the resurrection in Christ of the dead who were never in Christ, never in the Ark.
2 Peter 3
7 But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.
11 Then, all these things being about to be dissolved, what sort ought you to be in holy behavior and godliness,
12 looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat?
Where did Peter say that the day of the Lord is a time period?Hi David,
Actually I believe the Day of the Lord (God Almighty) starts when the Russian`s invade Israel. After God deals with them, then Israel will celebrate Purim, (National deliverance) and a bit later will be the Peace Treaty. Thus the trib, as I see it does not start immediately at the DOL.
The DOL is a time period (as Peter said) & a specific Day when the Lord returns to deliver Israel and deal vengeance upon the rebellious.
You posted this in response to a question regarding this comment that you had made:2 Peter 3
7 But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, let not this one thing be hidden from you, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.
11 Then, all these things being about to be dissolved, what sort ought you to be in holy behavior and godliness,
12 looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat?
So, where in 2 Peter 3:7-12 does it indicate the possibility of "the fire coming down from heaven at the close of a literal millennium"? If the fire Peter talked about in that passage occurred at the close/end of the thousand years, then what do you make of Revelation 20:7-9? How could Satan's little season follow what is described in 2 Peter 3:7-12?Fullness of the Gentiles said:Yet there are biblical statements that also make it possible that it's referring to the fire coming down from heaven at the close of a literal millennium.
Where did Peter say that the day of the Lord is a time period?
No, I'm sorry if I'm coming across that way. I'm not angry. Just chasing your case and trying to challenge you to look at things from a different angle because you're stuck (literally stuck) in a false assumption (or two: like 2 resurrections), things which you have obviously for a very long time believed is biblical, and won't get broken out of until you actually go and read each and every New Testament verse talking about resurrection, checking the Greek word used, and answering the question "is this talking about the resurrection of the body, or of the spiritual regeneration?" (which is also a biblical fact).Why have you become so nasty and defensive today?
No, I'm sorry if I'm coming across that way. I'm not angry. Just chasing your case and trying to challenge you to look at things from a different angle because you're stuck (literally stuck) in a false assumption (or two: like 2 resurrections), things which you have obviously for a very long time believed is biblical, and won't get broken out of until you actually go and read each and every New Testament verse talking about resurrection, checking the Greek word used, and answering the question "is this talking about the resurrection of the body, or of the spiritual regeneration?" (which is also a biblical fact).
So when you adopt the posture of "Teacher, Teacher" and say things like, "How good is your corroboration with New Testament?", I have to throw that back at you in order to challenge you, because your corroboration with N.T scripture on certain things is clearly not that good, because if it was, you wouldn't be saying the things you say. But my method wasn't working so I'll stop it, because it just makes you think I'm being nasty.
Peace brother.
Again, where did Peter indicate that the day of the Lord is a period of time? Your response does not answer that question.Day: Gk. `hemera,` meaning time, ie the time space between dawn and dark or the whole 24 hours, fig. a period, always defined by the context.
I am challenged all the time and enjoy that. What I asked was a simple and reasonable question. I was trying to initiate a conversation. All I got in response was a curt cold response.
It is amazing how difficult it is to get non Amils to talk about corroboration. That is because it is the Achilles heel of Premil.
I think I requested corroboration concerning the following in the past. Don't think I ever received it, though. Both the OT and NT is holy writ. If it is your opinion that there are zero unsaved survivors remaining post the 2nd coming, how about proving that using both testaments, not just one testament instead? But until you do that first, you shouldn't be complaining about others like you are here, in regards to corroboration.
I think I requested corroboration concerning the following in the past. Don't think I ever received it, though. Both the OT and NT is holy writ. If it is your opinion that there are zero unsaved survivors remaining post the 2nd coming, how about proving that using both testaments, not just one testament instead? But until you do that first, you shouldn't be complaining about others like you are here, in regards to corroboration.
Isaiah 13:9-11: “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars (kowkab) of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.”
Isaiah 30:33: “For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”
Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”
This is total destruction – for who and what is left behind. This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!
Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.
Let's start with this passage.
Isaiah 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
Who are the Medes meaning here then? God uses the Medes to accomplish destroying the sinners out of the land. Let's hope the Medes are not also sinners, because then you end up with sinners destroying other sinners, which means you still have sinners remaining, the Medes in this case, because no one is destroying them out of the land as well.
How could it mean no survivors in light of the following?
Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Where do these survivors come from? How can any of these survivors be meaning any of the eternally saved if they can be punished for things if they refuse to comply?
But then there is still Zechariah 14:16-19 and that it is also meaning after Jesus comes in the end of this age. But let's just ignore that passage, or let's pretend that passage is involving a time period that it isn't. Zechariah 14:16-19 is not applicable to this age in any sense. It is clearly meaning after Zechariah 14:12 has been fulfilled first, and that Zechariah 14:12 has not already been fulfilled in any sense.
Only to AMill believers, are Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20; challenging and highly debatable.All your argument tend to surround your personal opinion of Zech 14 and Rev 20. You think that is enough to refute the climactic detail of countless other Scriptures, when the rest should shed light of those 2 challenging highly-debated passages.
Only to AMill believers, are Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20; challenging and highly debatable.
The rest of us, who reject the untenable notion that we are in the Millennium now, can read and understand those scriptures quite well.
In your opinion!Personally, I'm not interested in your opinions of Amil. Despite years of trying to challenge it, you have failed to rebut all of its main tenets.
Zechariah 14:1-2 is when the Anti-Christ conquers the holy people, at the mid point of the final 7 years of this age, that is 42 months before Jesus Returns.could you please do a detailed comparison between Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20
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