2 Esdras

[88Devin07]

I was wondering, how many people here have read 2 Esdras? Its another book believed to have been written by Ezra and is a book where God reveals the coming end of time to Ezra. From the Coming of Christ to the Millinial reign.

One of the passages that really caught my attention is this:

2 Esdras 2:42-48

[42] I Esdras saw upon the mount Sion a great people, whom I could not number, and they all praised the Lord with songs.
[43] And in the midst of them there was a young man of a high stature, taller than all the rest, and upon every one of their heads he set crowns, and was more exalted; which I marvelled at greatly.
[44] So I asked the angel, and said, Sir, what are these?
[45] He answered and said unto me, These be they that have put off the mortal clothing, and put on the immortal, and have confessed the name of God: now are they crowned, and receive palms.
[46] Then said I unto the angel, What young person is it that crowneth them, and giveth them palms in their hands?
[47] So he answered and said unto me, "It is the Son of God, whom they have confessed in the world." Then began I greatly to commend them that stood so stiffly for the name of the Lord.
[48] Then the angel said unto me, Go thy way, and tell my people what manner of things, and how great wonders of the Lord thy God, thou hast seen.

Note, that this was written 550 years before the birth of Jesus. And the words "Son of God" don't appear anywhere else in the OT (to my knowledge).

Mention of the rapture is also evident:

2 Esdras
"They will see the men who never died but were taken up alive into heaven. The hearts and minds of people on Earth will be changed."

It also says that God told Ezra that there are 12 "stages" or periods of time, from the beginning to the end of the world.
He told Ezra they were halfway through the 10th.

Personally this is how I look at it:

1. First day of Creation
2. Second day of Creation
3. Third day of Creation
4. Fourth day of Creation
5. Fifth day of Creation
6. Sixth day of Creation
7. Day of rest
8. Adam to Abraham
9. Abraham to Moses
10. King Saul to Jesus*
11. Church Age (from birth of Christ to modern day)
12. Messianic Kingdom
*King Saul reigned about 1040 B.C. Halfway through the time from 1100 B.C. to 6 B.C. (the year that is approxamately when Christ was born) was about 550-540 B.C. The year that Esdras was written was 30 years after the Destruction of Jerusalem. Which was about 556-557 B.C. That's exactly 550 years before the birth of Jesus. Thus the 10th age ended with the birth of Jesus.

Then after the 12th period, heaven and earth will pass away and will be created anew by God, and New Jerusalem will be formed. Those who are written in the Book of Life will live with and be in fellowship with God for eternity.

These time periods aren't all 1000 years. They are just meant as generations. or ages (or epochs or periods or whatever). In other words, they are time periods.

2 Esdras 6:7-10
[7] Then answered I and said, What shall be the parting asunder of the times? or when shall be the end of the first, and the beginning of it that followeth?
[8] And he said unto me, From Abraham unto Isaac, when Jacob and Esau were born of him, Jacob's hand held first the heel of Esau.
[9] For Esau is the end of the world, and Jacob is the beginning of it that followeth.
[10] The hand of man is betwixt the heel and the hand: other question, Esdras, ask thou not.

This is one reason why I believe the Rapture will end the Church Age. The Rapture will be as fast as the twinkling of an eye. It will happen in an instant. This is why the Rapture must usher in the end of the Church Age. The Church won't exist on Earth, but there will still be some Christians and Jews.

BTW, this isn't up for debate. It is meant as a fellowship and your thoughts on it. There is NO DEBATING allowed in this thread...
Thank you

 

[88Devin07]

More of my observations:

According to 2 Esdras, these will happen in the End Times (And these are just geographical, they aren't ALL of the signs listed):

Fresh water will become salty
Fish will wash ashore in the Dead Sea
The Earth will break open spouting out fire
The Sun and Moon will switch timeframes (The time zones will be switched)
Blood will drip from trees
Stones will begin to speak
Fields will become bear
Rivers will stop flowing for 3 hours (could it mean three years?)
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3 others I thought were interesting...

Women will bear Children after just 3 or 4 months
The premature children will walk like other toddlers
Children will speak after only 1 year

The purpose (it says) of these signs is so that we may recognize when it has come. (just like Revelation)
----------------------------

BTW, it also predicted the coming of Christians along with the coming of Christ:

2 Esdras 1:28-37
[28] Thus saith the Almighty Lord, Have I not prayed you as a father his sons, as a mother her daughters, and a nurse her young babes,
[29] That ye would be my people, and I should be your God; that ye would be my children, and I should be your father?
[30] I gathered you together, as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings: but now, what shall I do unto you? I will cast you out from my face.
[31] When ye offer unto me, I will turn my face from you: for your solemn feastdays, your new moons, and your circumcisions, have I forsaken.
[32] I sent unto you my servants the prophets, whom ye have taken and slain, and torn their bodies in pieces, whose blood I will require of your hands, saith the Lord.
[33] Thus saith the Almighty Lord, Your house is desolate, I will cast you out as the wind doth stubble.
[34] And your children shall not be fruitful; for they have despised my commandment, and done the thing that is an evil before me.
[35] Your houses will I give to a people that shall come; which not having heard of me yet shall believe me; to whom I have shewed no signs, yet they shall do that I have commanded them.
[36] They have seen no prophets, yet they shall call their sins to remembrance, and acknowledge them.
[37] I take to witness the grace of the people to come, whose little ones rejoice in gladness: and though they have not seen me with bodily eyes, yet in spirit they believe the thing that I say.
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It also says we should stop trying to interpret prophecy and that only God can interpret it for us. (Stop studying and focus on the Bible and the Holy Spirit)

2 Esdras 4:1-21
[1] And the angel that was sent unto me, whose name was Uriel, gave me an answer,
[2] And said, Thy heart hath gone to far in this world, and thinkest thou to comprehend the way of the most High?
[3] Then said I, Yea, my lord. And he answered me, and said, I am sent to shew thee three ways, and to set forth three similitudes before thee:
[4] Whereof if thou canst declare me one, I will shew thee also the way that thou desirest to see, and I shall shew thee from whence the wicked heart cometh.
[5] And I said, Tell on, my lord. Then said he unto me, Go thy way, weigh me the weight of the fire, or measure me the blast of the wind, or call me again the day that is past.
[6] Then answered I and said, What man is able to do that, that thou shouldest ask such things of me?
[7] And he said unto me, If I should ask thee how great dwellings are in the midst of the sea, or how many springs are in the beginning of the deep, or how many springs are above the firmament, or which are the outgoings of paradise:
[8] Peradventure thou wouldest say unto me, I never went down into the deep, nor as yet into hell, neither did I ever climb up into heaven.
[9] Nevertheless now have I asked thee but only of the fire and wind, and of the day wherethrough thou hast passed, and of things from which thou canst not be separated, and yet canst thou give me no answer of them.
[10] He said moreover unto me, Thine own things, and such as are grown up with thee, canst thou not know;
[11] How should thy vessel then be able to comprehend the way of the Highest, and, the world being now outwardly corrupted to understand the corruption that is evident in my sight?
[12] Then said I unto him, It were better that we were not at all, than that we should live still in wickedness, and to suffer, and not to know wherefore.
[13] He answered me, and said, I went into a forest into a plain, and the trees took counsel,
[14] And said, Come, let us go and make war against the sea that it may depart away before us, and that we may make us more woods.
[15] The floods of the sea also in like manner took counsel, and said, Come, let us go up and subdue the woods of the plain, that there also we may make us another country.
[16] The thought of the wood was in vain, for the fire came and consumed it.
[17] The thought of the floods of the sea came likewise to nought, for the sand stood up and stopped them.
[18] If thou wert judge now betwixt these two, whom wouldest thou begin to justify? or whom wouldest thou condemn?
[19] I answered and said, Verily it is a foolish thought that they both have devised, for the ground is given unto the wood, and the sea also hath his place to bear his floods.
[20] Then answered he me, and said, Thou hast given a right judgment, but why judgest thou not thyself also?
[21] For like as the ground is given unto the wood, and the sea to his floods: even so they that dwell upon the earth may understand nothing but that which is upon the earth: and he that dwelleth above the heavens may only understand the things that are above the height of the heavens.

 

[TwinCrier]

Women will bear Children after just 3 or 4 months
The premature children will walk like other toddlers
Children will speak after only 1 year

Maybe it's just because I'm a mom, but this would certainly be interesting to see. As it is, we are able to help smaller and smaller babies survive, some that even weigh less than a pound. I wonder what effect this will have on abortion?

 

[88Devin07]

hmm some say a Christian wrote the 1st and 2nd chapters since they are so "Christian" in text. And some also say this was written in the 100s B.C. (mixed with text added in the 1st century) and so way way too late for Ezra to write it...

I don't think I would accept it since it has been corrupted by a false Christian (a Christian who dislikes his Jewish brothers and one who adds to scripture isn't a Christian).

It's an interesting book, but since the 1st and 2nd books were added (by a false Christian who claimed in the writings to be Ezra) we just don't know what else was corrupted

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Gnostic through and through.